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Am so sick of those fans who come on saying either this mess is all the fans fault, or that fans shouldn’t be concerned or complaining about our current state because we got to Wembley five years ago 

 

It’s beyond ***** stupid 

 

 

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Owlstalk Shop

 

 

 

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I think we should put some money into the Chansiri, Paixo and Alonso slush fund, sorry, player buying pot, by buying 10 year season tickets and joining a club we can all pay loads of money into to be spent now and paid back when we get in the prem. Who's in?

 

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Unfair.

 

There's a difference between having the money and not being allowed to spend it, and not having the money and gambling on success by borrowing it in.

 

We were in the former group.

 

Somebody posted a table of all the clubs who'd gone up in recent years, and the majority of them were either parachute or they'd been in the PL very recently.

 

Unless you have the luck of United, or the history of Leeds, how else are you supposed to get promoted save by gambling?

 

Sustainability takes years to implement...and youth development has never been our forte, to put it mildly.

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As it’s probably been stated a million times..the issue isn’t FFP (yet modern football dictates it is).

its the fact that football was bought from us years ago and we were all happy to go along with Monday night Sky fixtures with parachuting  clowns landing on the centre circle before a thrilling encounter between Bolton Wanderers and Crystal Palace.

 

Football is dead. Face facts...the FA Cup is looked on like leper colony by the big wigs who see it as an inconvenience to their premiership ‘also ran’ status..

 

bring back crap pitches, bovril, family meeting up on the Kop, proper tackles, one sub etc etc etc..

 

you can stick modern football up your Harris. 

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5 hours ago, Athelwulf said:

Unfair.

 

There's a difference between having the money and not being allowed to spend it, and not having the money and gambling on success by borrowing it in.

 

We were in the former group.

 

Somebody posted a table of all the clubs who'd gone up in recent years, and the majority of them were either parachute or they'd been in the PL very recently.

 

Unless you have the luck of United, or the history of Leeds, how else are you supposed to get promoted save by gambling?

 

Sustainability takes years to implement...and youth development has never been our forte, to put it mildly.

Not true, I’m afraid. Only 5 of 16 clubs promoted in DC’s reign have had PP.

21 hours ago, Mcguigan said:

In DC’s time in charge, 16 clubs have gained promotion and, to my knowledge in that time, only Bournemouth have faced any penalties for breaching FFP,  that was under the older more limited losses regulations.

 

Only 5 of those 16 clubs were promoted back whilst receiving PP’s as well.

 

 

 

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6 hours ago, Athelwulf said:

 

 

Somebody posted a table of all the clubs who'd gone up in recent years, and the majority of them were either parachute or they'd been in the PL very recently.

 

 


 

Stop

 

This is NOT TRUE


 


Owlstalk Shop

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Mcguigan said:

Not true, I’m afraid. Only 5 of 16 clubs promoted in DC’s reign have had PP.

 

 

I didn't say that they were all in receipt of PP at the time of promotion.

 

I said that many of them had been in the PL recently.

 

Or to put it another way, they'd not been absent for two decades, as we have.

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5 minutes ago, Athelwulf said:

 

I didn't say that they were all in receipt of PP at the time of promotion.

 

I said that many of them had been in the PL recently.

 

Or to put it another way, they'd not been absent for two decades, as we have.

No you said the majority of them were, which like I said is wrong.

 

Also, when you say in the PL recently you can’t blame me for thinking the last 5/6 years or so not two decades.

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3 minutes ago, Mcguigan said:

No you said the majority of them were, which like I said is wrong.

 

Also, when you say in the PL recently you can’t blame me for thinking the last 5/6 years or so not two decades.

 

They're teams like Norwich, Fulham, Watford, Wolves etc, which are up and down.

 

Hull, 'Boro and 'Udders have had short stints up there too.

 

Every time it happens, they get a pay-out.

 

Then you've got Villa and Newcastle, established PL sides which went down for a bit and then bounced back.

 

We're not lucky like 'Udders and the Blades, and we don't have the Revie years to attract a Bielsa.

 

All we've got's Chansiri's money.

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15 minutes ago, Athelwulf said:

 

They're teams like Norwich, Fulham, Watford, Wolves etc, which are up and down.

 

Hull, 'Boro and 'Udders have had short stints up there too.

 

Every time it happens, they get a pay-out.

 

Then you've got Villa and Newcastle, established PL sides which went down for a bit and then bounced back.

 

We're not lucky like 'Udders and the Blades, and we don't have the Revie years to attract a Bielsa.

 

All we've got's Chansiri's money.

There’s been 39 opportunities to get promoted since clubs started receiving PP.

 

The number of clubs promoted, in that period, with no PP payments in the period is 26 or 66%.

 

There’s also more clubs that benefited from PP that never got promoted back than ones that did.

 

PP or P&S rules aren’t really a clear marker for not getting promotion.

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Think we would have more cause for complaint if we were up and around play off places and kept missing out as other clubs with parachute payments kept signing more expensive players and just pipping up to go up.

Our current predicament is down to the club being badly run no matter what the rules were.

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11 hours ago, Mcguigan said:

There’s been 39 opportunities to get promoted since clubs started receiving PP.

 

The number of clubs promoted, in that period, with no PP payments in the period is 26 or 66%.

 

There’s also more clubs that benefited from PP that never got promoted back than ones that did.

 

PP or P&S rules aren’t really a clear marker for not getting promotion.

 

2020

 

Leeds                                 Don Revie/history to get Bielsa

West Brom                        2 seasons in Championship 

Fulham                              1 season in Championship

 

 

2019

 

Norwich                            2 seasons in Championship

Sheffield United               luck to get Wilder

Villa                                   3 seasons in Championship

 

 

2018

Wolves                             gambled outrageously

Cardiff                              dinosaur/Colin whom we rejected

Fulham                             4 seasons in Championship

 

 

2017

Newcastle                         1 season in Championship

Brighton                             fair do's

Huddersfield                      luck to get us with Carlos, minus Hooper

 

 

2016

 

Burnley                            1 season in Championship

'Boro                                7 seasons in Championship, dinosaur/Karanka

Hull                                  1 season in Championship


 

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15 minutes ago, Athelwulf said:

 

2020

 

Leeds                                 Don Revie/history to get Bielsa

West Brom                        2 seasons in Championship 

Fulham                              1 season in Championship

 

 

2019

 

Norwich                            2 seasons in Championship

Sheffield United               luck to get Wilder

Villa                                   3 seasons in Championship

 

 

2018

Wolves                             gambled outrageously

Cardiff                              dinosaur/Colin whom we rejected

Fulham                             4 seasons in Championship

 

 

2017

Newcastle                         1 season in Championship

Brighton                             fair do's

Huddersfield                      luck to get us with Carlos, minus Hooper

 

 

2016

 

Burnley                            1 season in Championship

'Boro                                7 seasons in Championship, dinosaur/Karanka

Hull                                  1 season in Championship


 

Read Don Revie to get Bielsa and stopped reading, sorry. 

 

Your using phrases like, luck, gambled and fair do's to counteract facts. 

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17 minutes ago, Mcguigan said:

Read Don Revie to get Bielsa and stopped reading, sorry. 

 

Your using phrases like, luck, gambled and fair do's to counteract facts. 

 

Those are the facts, and you can research them for yourself.

 

What I meant is that because of the Revie years, Leeds have the profile to land a manager of Bielsa's stature.

 

We don't.

 

United were extremely fortunate to get Wilder; you could take a dozen managers from the lower leagues and not get one like him, and the investment the Blades got in the Championship was more akin to a team which is fighting the drop. It was Roy of the Rovers/Leicester stuff.

 

But even if you exclude Leeds and the Blades, out of the 15 promoted teams, 8 of them had been in the PL within the previous 4 years, with some of them bouncing straight back.

 

Wolves, Cardiff and 'Boro had also had relatively recent PL histories, with Wolves making our gambling look timid by comparison.

 

The only club in that list similar to ourselves is Brighton, in that they had been out of the top flight for many years.

 

I'll give you that one, which is why I wrote fair do's.

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Rules are the same for everyone else in the league. DC either doesn't understand them and/or doesn't feel he should be bound by them.

 

He's a spoilt rich kid, who isn't particularly bright.

 

It was always going to end badly.

 

 

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8 hours ago, Athelwulf said:

 

Those are the facts, and you can research them for yourself.

 

What I meant is that because of the Revie years, Leeds have the profile to land a manager of Bielsa's stature.

 

We don't.

 

United were extremely fortunate to get Wilder; you could take a dozen managers from the lower leagues and not get one like him, and the investment the Blades got in the Championship was more akin to a team which is fighting the drop. It was Roy of the Rovers/Leicester stuff.

 

But even if you exclude Leeds and the Blades, out of the 15 promoted teams, 8 of them had been in the PL within the previous 4 years, with some of them bouncing straight back.

 

Wolves, Cardiff and 'Boro had also had relatively recent PL histories, with Wolves making our gambling look timid by comparison.

 

The only club in that list similar to ourselves is Brighton, in that they had been out of the top flight for many years.

 

I'll give you that one, which is why I wrote fair do's.

They’re not facts mate, they’re your opinions.

 

You’re dismissing the facts by arguing that clubs were lucky, gambled or excluding teams.

 

ExampleYou’ll have to explain to me how Wolves gambling made ours look timid by comparison.

 

Did Wolves sign aging, injury prone players on ridiculous wages. Players with little or no resale value? No, they had some very valuable assets within their squad, assets that could be sold to ease the P&S burden had they not been promoted.


Did Wolves loan sign PL players again on ridiculous wages to mostly not even make the bench but the squad? No, got on loan international quality players to almost guarantee promotion. Again though, players that the following season would return their clubs to ease the P&S burden.

 

Wolves’ approach to gaining to promotion made ours look pathetically amateur, whilst they went about it with a professionalism and determination, chased one rabbit in a field and got it.There was never a gamble, it was well thought out approach and played P&S restrictions perfectly.

 

We chased 20 and come away with nothing. Our gamble backfired massively and we didn’t have the planning or foresight to be able to rectify afterwards.

 

You can fabricate as many excuses for clubs getting promoted before us but, truth be told, it’s not their fault. It’s ours.

 

Those are facts, I’ve researched them.

 

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11 hours ago, Athelwulf said:

 

Those are the facts, and you can research them for yourself.

 

What I meant is that because of the Revie years, Leeds have the profile to land a manager of Bielsa's stature.

 

We don't.

 

United were extremely fortunate to get Wilder; you could take a dozen managers from the lower leagues and not get one like him, and the investment the Blades got in the Championship was more akin to a team which is fighting the drop. It was Roy of the Rovers/Leicester stuff.

 

But even if you exclude Leeds and the Blades, out of the 15 promoted teams, 8 of them had been in the PL within the previous 4 years, with some of them bouncing straight back.

 

Wolves, Cardiff and 'Boro had also had relatively recent PL histories, with Wolves making our gambling look timid by comparison.

 

The only club in that list similar to ourselves is Brighton, in that they had been out of the top flight for many years.

 

I'll give you that one, which is why I wrote fair do's.

Success generally takes a bit more than your superficial suggestions.

 

Both Blades and Leeds going up was built on infrastructure investment, moving to top traning facilities , for example.

 

This then resulted in lucrative player sales - Woods , Brookes et al - to fund steady progress and later attract right managers.

 

Chansiri had 5 years to move from mediocre Middlwood and done nowt. 

 

Even his taxis don't run on time. 

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