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Chansiri is a victim of circumstances....


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1 hour ago, Roscoe P. Coltrane said:

First sentence sums it up for me 

Wolves like it or not came along and showed us how to do it.

 

Yep.

 

Wolves went straight up and were almost certain to do so with the squad they managed to assemble.

 

We did well to build a playoff-chasing squad in that first season, but rather than looking to consolidate there and try to build sustainably from that solid base as the likes of Brighton did, we gambled on the likes of Rhodes and Abdi, refused to sell anyone, and ultimately made an utter mess of it all.

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11 minutes ago, Elderly Owl said:

Yep, but the real t*rd in the water pipe is the stance on parachute payments. One law for the relegated and another for the rest. You can’t have a system with different rules for the top tier that still apply when you’re no longer in the top tier! It’s not bloody rocket science!

 

You're one of those who believe that it's FFP and Parachute Payments that have held us back aren't you?

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Owlstalk Shop

 

 

 

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8 minutes ago, Elderly Owl said:

It’s only biased because you don’t agree with it! I thought he made some good points ( but then again I’m biased too)

 

You can spin around as much as you like if it makes you feel better. But some simple facts remain. We drove a coach and horses through the league's financial regulations with apparently no consideration for what to do if we weren't promoted. Shall we blame Carlos Carvalhal for that? Despite probably having already exceeded these limits we broke the bank to sign a forward who was not only showing signs of decline, but would have to compete in the most talent loaded position of the squad as others were neglected. Was that Jean-Marc Bosman's fault? In an attempt to try and paper over the cracks of this financial mismanagement, we then made a complete arse of selling the stadium, despite the Football League's own incompetence that should have helped us do so and ended up with a points penalty that may yet relegate us. So who gets the rap for that? Rhoys Wiggins?

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40 minutes ago, gurujuan said:

I will concentrate on the football side of things, because I don’t know much about running a multi million pound business. In fact I probably know less about running a big business, than DC knew about football when he first took over 

 

On the football front, I think DC is learning, slowly, but he’s still at the mercy of his advisors. Moving with impressive speed to assemble a set up that stormed to the play off final He invested heavily in quality players, and a shrewd tactician, in Carlos. When I say invested heavily, we may not have had one of the top budgets in the division, but we were able to add enough quality, to an already solid squad that had been assembled by Stuart Gray, under Mandaric. There were already some good players here, who were to make up the nucleus of that play off side, but remember, they had been nowhere near the play offs under the previous manager. We overachieved in season one 

 

By season two, DC had changed his advisors, and that’s where things started going wrong. Following the Wembley defeat, Carlos had identified where he needed to strengthen the squad. A list of targets was drawn up, which included Lucas Piazon and William Carvalho, but according to Carlos, none of those targets were delivered. Instead he got Fletcher, Reach and Abdi, none of whom were an improvement on what we had, or what was needed. More players would follow, too many in fact, and mainly ageing British players, who didn’t exactly energise the squad. A lot of money was spent, but arguably, didn’t really strengthen the squad. Despite this, the team again reached the play offs.

 

They did this while overcoming an injury crisis that would have floored most teams. Carlos adopted a different way of playing, that might not have been entertaining, but certainly was effective. Why did he feel he needed to do that? Perhaps he was disgruntled with the direction of recruitment, or maybe he thought the squad now didn’t have the legs to play as we had done in season one. I am not convinced that it was because of his stated reason, that we had been worked out. Nevertheless, to reach the play offs again was quite an achievement.

 

Although I didn’t particularly like the new way of playing, it was a good tactical innovation that suited the players we had. Unlike Pulis, or Monk’s defensive set ups, Carlos’s was based on control, and keeping the ball. Having reached the play offs, we did rather blow it in that home game against Huddersfield. However, from Carlos’s point of view, those same tactics had got him to the play offs, and through the first leg, so why change? In hindsight, yes we wish he perhaps had, but it’s easy to see why he didn’t. Still, a missed opportunity, as I believe we could have beaten that Reading side that eventually went up. 


Plenty of people said that DC should have sacked Carlos after that Huddersfield game. Why would he do that though? In his eyes, Carlos had taken us to the play offs two years running, improving our league position in the process. With his advisors telling him that the signing of Jordan Rhodes, a player the manager obviously never wanted, would be the one who finally get us over the line, I can see why he stuck with the manager. I’m pretty certain Carlos though, might have had reservations about the way things were going. We were up against it in season three, amidst another injury crisis, struggling in the bottom half of the table when Chansiri and Carlos decided to go their separate ways. 


Should Carlos have stayed? Probably not, I don’t think he saw eye to eye with the direction of travel we were taking. I’m not sure that it was a case of the money running out, he has proved that he can build sides on a shoestring. Pretty certain things would not have been so bad as they are now, at least not on the pitch. 


After that, it’s been one bad appointment after another. Misguided, or misadvised, DC has continued to support those managers as best he can, within the constraints of FFP Its a cliche, but this next managerial appointment is one he simply has to get right.
 

The team that reach the play off final was built on the solid free agent and youth player base that Stuart Gray put in place, his team was not the most gifted but it was the fittest in the league.

 

Westwood, Palmer, Lees, Loovens, Lee, Hutchinson, Semedo - we struggled for goals but had Nuihu scoring 1 in 4 for the Owls, yet every manager since has struggled to have him more than a bit part player, bar half a season that him and Joao kept us up.

 

Carlos team was built on the conditioning of Stuart Gray, as soon as Carlos started to work with the team the fitness began to faulter, for me that season we got to the play off was built of 2 people Gray for assembling a solid team and Roeder for signing Hunt, Fessi, Bannan, Wallace, Pudil, Hooper to add the attaching flare we lacked.

 

Carlos then managed someone else team to the play off final (the same way Dave Jones did with a team built by Megson) in that summer he got to work on moulding the team and the chairman got to work with his advisors bringing loads of players we didn't need. Pace on the flanks, a target man up front and central midfield beast thats all we needed.

 

instead we signed 10 players and 3 loans, Fletcher, Kean, Abdi, Pudil, Jones, Sasso, Reach Emanuel, Fox, Winnall, Buckley, McManaman, Rhodes. Only 3 of the 13 players were used in the team and arguably we overpaid for Pudil who was the wrong side of 30 with less than 1 year left on his contract. to only get 23% of your signing right is a very poor recruitment return but it could be argued it was probably the best DC and his numerous advisors have done in any transfer window other than the first summer when he allowed Roeder to build him a team.

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So after the John Terry thread, this?

Next...

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8 hours ago, Tollertonowl said:

When Chansiri came to SWFC he clearly stated that he knew very little about English football, but would employ advisors (to help him) and was willing to invest in our club to ensure promotion upto the premier league. He kept to his word immediately investing funds into the stadium along with a new manager (arguably a bit premature) and a number of high value players (at least to SWFC) for key areas.

 

Then the new manager said that he'd let the team pick itself for the first year and sit back to analyse the team performances/players during this time. The results of this approach was an SWFC team that played fast attacking football and scored goals e.g. we beat Arsenal (full team) in the cup, but also played them off the park in terms of football. Then after Christmas we were looking like contenders for (possibly automatic) promotion (at least the playoffs), which is when Carlos stopped watching the team and took charge along with imposing negative tactics, which I believe resulted in a the play-off place  (for 2yrs running) and also losing out to Hull/Huddersfield (who were both promoted).

 

The latter game (after a full season of enduring CC's defensive football (for the greater good - grind it out - pass back - pass side ways) whilst knowing what we could actually do as an unleashed attacking side) so Huddersfield was just unforgivable, as I've a few mates that support them so aside from the usual banter/ turning the knife/ torturing me on the final result etc....

 

They actually took pity on me and gave their honest analysis of the game, which was WTF was your manager doing with the negative tactics given the circumstances - does he understand the rules... They reckoned (as did I) that if we'd have gone all out attack that they would have been unable to hang on.... They also ask me if CC actually new what the rules were for the play-offs given his tactics.

 

Anyway after losing out in the playoffs for the 2nd time we had (with Chansiri's Money) taken a big chance on the push and spent too much on players/ high wages/ old players (injury Prone) with long contracts to get us over the promotion line, which if we'd gone up made sense, as we'd just release them...

 

The team we had should've gained promotion in the first year and then most definitely gained promotion in the 2nd year, CC messed up with tactics and should've been sacked immediately after the Huddersfield game... By this point we also really needed to start changing the team, as most players had been at SWFC for over 3yrs and some players had asked to leave for premier league clubs (FF/AR).... 

 

An example is FF who spat his dummy out when refused a transfer which (for me) we handled badly as we should've just agreed with him to stay until the closed season and then if promoted he could then leave, which is what Alex Ferguson did with Ronaldo.. He also says that a team is only good for 2-3 yrs before you start to break it up and start again... 

 

However we kept CC, the same team that had failed twice and then endured his (CC's) negative tactics for a few more months, which based on the results by then (and until his departure) was clear the players (along with supporters) held him accountable for failure..

 

Since then we've become increasingly screwed by the Financial Fair Play Rules, which means that although we've got a Millionaire/ Billionaire owner who has/is willing to invest heavily in the club for promotion. We now seem in a worse position than when we were on the brink of survival and unable to sign players. 

 

So I don't blame Chansiri for the current situation, as he's backed us to the hilt and took a calculated risk, which should've paid off... Unfortunately CC let him down/ us down and the team down with his poor negative tactics...

 

So now the Financial Fair Play/ Bosman Rules have kicked in they are literally destroying our chances for promotion along with a number of other teams that also have wealthy owners/ investors such as Derby, Middlesbrough etc. who are willing to invest their own/ partners/ consortiums money regardless of turnover/ initial yearly accounting losses for promotion. However they cant do this due to FFP rules, which (for example) is why Gibson at Middlesbrough was kicking off about SWFC/ Derby to highlight his own frustrations, as he wants to spend big for promotion, but can't... So the result was they were lucky to avoid the drop last year, we will be this year and Derby next year...

 

To add injury to insult (of the FFP rules) then we've also got the Bosman rulings, which means a player can leave a club free of charge after their contracts expires... So we've got (I believe) Westwood, Bannan and Reach (now playing well) who will most likely leave by the end of this season KW/BB (last pay day for them) and AR to the premiership most likely, which I believe would suit him better football wise. We also can't sell these players now, as we wouldn't get market value with their contracts due to end shortly and we also need these players to stay up this season, as we can't spend.

 

However if we weren't tied on transfers previously due to the FFP rules then these players would've most likely left the club already for a fee to move elsewhere. Unfortunately they are now unlikely to agree an extensions to their contracts (unless for silly wages/ long length/ unbalancing the club) especially when a large signing on fee elsewhere is looming, high wages/ long contract (no initial fee), then we have the SWFC bad Karma/ wages issue and other clubs are already interested in signing them...

 

So for me its CC messing up with promotion and then the resulting rules of Financial Fair Play causing the issues we have currently... Its not Chansiri who invested like he said he would in the club and since the FFP kicked in has had his hands tied... He's also done all he can to get around the rules by buying the ground for stupid money and luckily reducing the points deduction (by 6 so far) due to the EFL error on their accounting advice mistake on the ground... 

 

I think that NT will keep us up and then hopefully we won't be tied by FFP rules in the closed season, which is when we should get a proven manager and spend big like Wolves did and go for it (rules don't count if promoted) or we will be stuck in the championship for years to come...

 

 

 

 

Hes a victim of himself, thats it.

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3 minutes ago, Rev Owl said:

So after the John Terry thread, this?

Next...

This is what happens when there isn’t a managerial appointment, any new signings or any games!

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Very concerning post from Owlerton.

 

The vast majority of caretakers appointed permanent managerr win a couple of games but when defeats come it all goes quickly downhill.

 

Remember Peter Eustace anyone?

 

Why would NT reach his sixties and suddenly become a top Championship Manager and make no mistake we are in one hell of a scap to stay up.  I just could not believe this:

 

"I think that NT will keep us up and then hopefully we won't be tied by FFP rules in the closed season, which is when we should get a proven manager and spend big like Wolves did and go for it (rules don't count if promoted) or we will be stuck in the championship for years to come..."

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38 minutes ago, Elderly Owl said:

Yep, but the real t*rd in the water pipe is the stance on parachute payments. One law for the relegated and another for the rest. You can’t have a system with different rules for the top tier that still apply when you’re no longer in the top tier! It’s not bloody rocket science!

This has nothing to do with adhering to the rules that are in place. Wrong or not.

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8 minutes ago, Rev Owl said:

So after the John Terry thread, this?

Next...

 

"Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit sniffing glue"

 

picked-the-wrong-week-to-stop-sniffing-g

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8 minutes ago, Owls Loyal said:

Very concerning post from Owlerton.

 

The vast majority of caretakers appointed permanent managerr win a couple of games but when defeats come it all goes quickly downhill.

 

Remember Peter Eustace anyone?

 

Why would NT reach his sixties and suddenly become a top Championship Manager and make no mistake we are in one hell of a scap to stay up.  I just could not believe this:

 

"I think that NT will keep us up and then hopefully we won't be tied by FFP rules in the closed season, which is when we should get a proven manager and spend big like Wolves did and go for it (rules don't count if promoted) or we will be stuck in the championship for years to come..."


yes this is why I don’t want Thompson to get the job. 

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Name another club where agents - from beginning of Chansiri's reign - are embedded in club for recruitment?

 

And just recruited another after 5 years ' footy experience. Mad.

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Chansiri is the owner of the football club so takes full responsibility for our plight.

 

What he did when he first arrived was a short term punt to try and get us promoted. An expensive gamble to get there as soon as we can. The gamble failed (yes we got close but it failed) and it has left us with no infrastructure, strategy or plan on how we move forward. 
 

We lurk from one crisis to the next whether it be sacking managers, points deductions or transfer embargo’s. His reluctance to put a proper football structure in place and his continued reliance on third party agents to help run the club just shows he has not learnt or is not willing to learn what it takes to be a football owner.

 

I don’t think he signed up for any of this. It was a toy to him. Sold a dream by Mandaric and co and his ego couldn’t refuse. You see it with the golden elephants, his name plastered all over the ground, his name across the kits. It was an expensive hobby and gamble for Premier League glory which failed and now he is left hanging on to a dream of promotion which is now further away then it was when he bought the club.

 

We are not the first club to be bought by a foreign owner with no understanding of the English game and what it means to supporters. And we won’t be the last. Our suffering under DC is no different to what Forest, Hull, Portsmouth have all been through. For Wednesday though, it was the perfect storm. Fans desperate for success. Finally a man with money comes in and he’s willing to spend. We were blinded by it. Agents saw it coming from a mile off and took full advantage of fan optimism and an inexperienced chairman. But the warning signs were there from the off, sadly as a fanbase we are just so desperate to get back to where we believe we belong we let a lot of it slide. 
 

I maintain things will get worse before they get better under DC. I believe he had good intentions but I’m also under no illusions as to why he got involved. For glory, ego and for money - it’s always the motivation (like it is for most people who get involved in football). I just hope when he does move on we don’t defer to the new owner as some kind of god because he has a bit of cash in his wallet. Don’t massage their ego and be cautious. We should all learn a lesson from DC’s ownership.

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4 minutes ago, SallyCinnamon said:

Chansiri is the owner of the football club so takes full responsibility for our plight.

 

What he did when he first arrived was a short term punt to try and get us promoted. An expensive gamble to get there as soon as we can. The gamble failed (yes we got close but it failed) and it has left us with no infrastructure, strategy or plan on how we move forward. 
 

We lurk from one crisis to the next whether it be sacking managers, points deductions or transfer embargo’s. His reluctance to put a proper football structure in place and his continued reliance on third party agents to help run the club just shows he has not learnt or is not willing to learn what it takes to be a football owner.

 

I don’t think he signed up for any of this. It was a toy to him. Sold a dream by Mandaric and co and his ego couldn’t refuse. You see it with the golden elephants, his name plastered all over the ground, his name across the kits. It was an expensive hobby and gamble for Premier League glory which failed and now he is left hanging on to a dream of promotion which is now further away then it was when he bought the club.

 

We are not the first club to be bought by a foreign owner with no understanding of the English game and what it means to supporters. And we won’t be the last. Our suffering under DC is no different to what Forest, Hull, Portsmouth have all been through. For Wednesday though, it was the perfect storm. Fans desperate for success. Finally a man with money comes in and he’s willing to spend. We were blinded by it. Agents saw it coming from a mile off and took full advantage of fan optimism and an inexperienced chairman. But the warning signs were there from the off, sadly as a fanbase we are just so desperate to get back to where we believe we belong we let a lot of it slide. 
 

I maintain things will get worse before they get better under DC. I believe he had good intentions but I’m also under no illusions as to why he got involved. For glory, ego and for money - it’s always the motivation (like it is for most people who get involved in football). I just hope when he does move on we don’t defer to the new owner as some kind of god because he has a bit of cash in his wallet. Don’t massage their ego and be cautious. We should all learn a lesson from DC’s ownership.

Sadly, only Administration will get him to go.

 

Fans then have to pick up mess, as usual.

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Truth be told, given how things have panned out since the first two seasons, I'm not all that convinced we'd be any better off had we got promoted.

 

Promotion would have merely served to convince Chansiri he was some sort of footballing guru. We would have wasted even more money and this "advisors" would have bled the club dry.

Edited by SiJ
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