Chansiri is a victim of circumstances....

[BowOwl]

I've said this a few times on here but still:
DC seems like a genuine decent family man with good intentions. He bought us with the long term vision of raising his son to continue after him. He invested immediately in the ground, spent time with the fans, bought bloody players we asked for (Rhodes).

However he is simply a very naive/average businessman, with 0 football experience, and tbh not much financial experience. The complete failure to bring in a skilled DOF has been the downfall. Every single issue has come from the lack of knowledge, eg bringing in silly purchases (Rhodes).

I actually like Chansiri if you remove the Wednesday element, anyone who is vile to him on social media etc is a disgrace.

BUT - He needs to take a big personal hit of pride and bring someone in asap to run the club for him. If they happens, and we stay up this year there is a slim chance we could turn this massive ship around. We would need to probably have another survival year next year, but if a proper vision was in place I would accept that.

If we go down, DC is not going to be able to recover. The financial hit will be too big, the blame will be everywhere and the mood will be gone until there is a fresh start.
 

[WalthamOwl]

Dear me. 

[swfcjack27]

Still baffles me how people can blame Carlos for our current predicament. Absolutely bizarre

[Athelwulf]

2 minutes ago, BowOwl said:

I've said this a few times on here but still:
DC seems like a genuine decent family man with good intentions. He bought us with the long term vision of raising his son to continue after him. He invested immediately in the ground, spent time with the fans, bought bloody players we asked for (Rhodes).

However he is simply a very naive/average businessman, with 0 football experience, and tbh not much financial experience. The complete failure to bring in a skilled DOF has been the downfall. Every single issue has come from the lack of knowledge, eg bringing in silly purchases (Rhodes).

I actually like Chansiri if you remove the Wednesday element, anyone who is vile to him on social media etc is a disgrace.

BUT - He needs to take a big personal hit of pride and bring someone in asap to run the club for him. If they happens, and we stay up this year there is a slim chance we could turn this massive ship around. We would need to probably have another survival year next year, but if a proper vision was in place I would accept that.

If we go down, DC is not going to be able to recover. The financial hit will be too big, the blame will be everywhere and the mood will be gone until there is a fresh start.
 

 

Absolutely correct.

 

But it's unlikely to happen.

[WalthamOwl]

Chansiri is slowly killing this club and turning it in to a laughing stock. Yes the leeches that advise him deserve a lot of blame but Chansiri has the final say or he should do. People still blaming Carlos after all this time 

[swfcjack27]

I’m pretty sure the stadium sale, FFP disaster and late accounts are Carlos’ doing 

[@owlstalk]

16 minutes ago, BowOwl said:

I've said this a few times on here but still:
DC seems like a genuine decent family man with good intentions. He bought us with the long term vision of raising his son to continue after him. He invested immediately in the ground, spent time with the fans, bought bloody players we asked for (Rhodes).

However he is simply a very naive/average businessman, with 0 football experience, and tbh not much financial experience. The complete failure to bring in a skilled DOF has been the downfall. Every single issue has come from the lack of knowledge, eg bringing in silly purchases (Rhodes).

I actually like Chansiri if you remove the Wednesday element, anyone who is vile to him on social media etc is a disgrace.

BUT - He needs to take a big personal hit of pride and bring someone in asap to run the club for him. If they happens, and we stay up this year there is a slim chance we could turn this massive ship around. We would need to probably have another survival year next year, but if a proper vision was in place I would accept that.

If we go down, DC is not going to be able to recover. The financial hit will be too big, the blame will be everywhere and the mood will be gone until there is a fresh start.
 

 

 

To employ a DOF you need to listen to them and act on their advice

[gurujuan]

I will concentrate on the football side of things, because I don’t know much about running a multi million pound business. In fact I probably know less about running a big business, than DC knew about football when he first took over 

 

On the football front, I think DC is learning, slowly, but he’s still at the mercy of his advisors. Moving with impressive speed to assemble a set up that stormed to the play off final He invested heavily in quality players, and a shrewd tactician, in Carlos. When I say invested heavily, we may not have had one of the top budgets in the division, but we were able to add enough quality, to an already solid squad that had been assembled by Stuart Gray, under Mandaric. There were already some good players here, who were to make up the nucleus of that play off side, but remember, they had been nowhere near the play offs under the previous manager. We overachieved in season one 

 

By season two, DC had changed his advisors, and that’s where things started going wrong. Following the Wembley defeat, Carlos had identified where he needed to strengthen the squad. A list of targets was drawn up, which included Lucas Piazon and William Carvalho, but according to Carlos, none of those targets were delivered. Instead he got Fletcher, Reach and Abdi, none of whom were an improvement on what we had, or what was needed. More players would follow, too many in fact, and mainly ageing British players, who didn’t exactly energise the squad. A lot of money was spent, but arguably, didn’t really strengthen the squad. Despite this, the team again reached the play offs.

 

They did this while overcoming an injury crisis that would have floored most teams. Carlos adopted a different way of playing, that might not have been entertaining, but certainly was effective. Why did he feel he needed to do that? Perhaps he was disgruntled with the direction of recruitment, or maybe he thought the squad now didn’t have the legs to play as we had done in season one. I am not convinced that it was because of his stated reason, that we had been worked out. Nevertheless, to reach the play offs again was quite an achievement.

 

Although I didn’t particularly like the new way of playing, it was a good tactical innovation that suited the players we had. Unlike Pulis, or Monk’s defensive set ups, Carlos’s was based on control, and keeping the ball. Having reached the play offs, we did rather blow it in that home game against Huddersfield. However, from Carlos’s point of view, those same tactics had got him to the play offs, and through the first leg, so why change? In hindsight, yes we wish he perhaps had, but it’s easy to see why he didn’t. Still, a missed opportunity, as I believe we could have beaten that Reading side that eventually went up. 

Plenty of people said that DC should have sacked Carlos after that Huddersfield game. Why would he do that though? In his eyes, Carlos had taken us to the play offs two years running, improving our league position in the process. With his advisors telling him that the signing of Jordan Rhodes, a player the manager obviously never wanted, would be the one who finally get us over the line, I can see why he stuck with the manager. I’m pretty certain Carlos though, might have had reservations about the way things were going. We were up against it in season three, amidst another injury crisis, struggling in the bottom half of the table when Chansiri and Carlos decided to go their separate ways. 

Should Carlos have stayed? Probably not, I don’t think he saw eye to eye with the direction of travel we were taking. I’m not sure that it was a case of the money running out, he has proved that he can build sides on a shoestring. Pretty certain things would not have been so bad as they are now, at least not on the pitch. 

After that, it’s been one bad appointment after another. Misguided, or misadvised, DC has continued to support those managers as best he can, within the constraints of FFP Its a cliche, but this next managerial appointment is one he simply has to get right.
 

[DJMortimer]

That opening post is biased beyond belief. A classic example of deciding the conclusion first and then presenting the evidence to try and conform with it, whilst at no time giving the tiniest flicker of consideration for an alternative scenario. I'm not going to take on the equivalent of arguing with a Trump supporter though. It's difficult to rationalise with the fundamentally irrational.

 

We may each have our own thoughts on some of the mistakes of the last few years, but there are some core ones on which there is broad agreement and those at the very top of the club are responsible for most of them. The big question for me is exactly who are those people? Suspicions linger that the likes of Paixao and his associates are not mere advisors who can be pushed aside at the chairman's behest.

[mcmigo]

I dont agree re the DOF being the solution. May be a small part of it.

 

The club lacks values.  Those things count when things, inevitably, things dip on the pitch for periods.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Pulsar]

7 hours ago, Tollertonowl said:

When Chansiri came to SWFC he clearly stated that he knew very little about English football, but would employ advisors (to help him) and was willing to invest in our club to ensure promotion upto the premier league. He kept to his word immediately investing funds into the stadium along with a new manager (arguably a bit premature) and a number of high value players (at least to SWFC) for key areas.

 

Then the new manager said that he'd let the team pick itself for the first year and sit back to analyse the team performances/players during this time. The results of this approach was an SWFC team that played fast attacking football and scored goals e.g. we beat Arsenal (full team) in the cup, but also played them off the park in terms of football. Then after Christmas we were looking like contenders for (possibly automatic) promotion (at least the playoffs), which is when Carlos stopped watching the team and took charge along with imposing negative tactics, which I believe resulted in a the play-off place  (for 2yrs running) and also losing out to Hull/Huddersfield (who were both promoted).

 

The latter game (after a full season of enduring CC's defensive football (for the greater good - grind it out - pass back - pass side ways) whilst knowing what we could actually do as an unleashed attacking side) so Huddersfield was just unforgivable, as I've a few mates that support them so aside from the usual banter/ turning the knife/ torturing me on the final result etc....

 

They actually took pity on me and gave their honest analysis of the game, which was WTF was your manager doing with the negative tactics given the circumstances - does he understand the rules... They reckoned (as did I) that if we'd have gone all out attack that they would have been unable to hang on.... They also ask me if CC actually new what the rules were for the play-offs given his tactics.

 

Anyway after losing out in the playoffs for the 2nd time we had (with Chansiri's Money) taken a big chance on the push and spent too much on players/ high wages/ old players (injury Prone) with long contracts to get us over the promotion line, which if we'd gone up made sense, as we'd just release them...

 

The team we had should've gained promotion in the first year and then most definitely gained promotion in the 2nd year, CC messed up with tactics and should've been sacked immediately after the Huddersfield game... By this point we also really needed to start changing the team, as most players had been at SWFC for over 3yrs and some players had asked to leave for premier league clubs (FF/AR).... 

 

An example is FF who spat his dummy out when refused a transfer which (for me) we handled badly as we should've just agreed with him to stay until the closed season and then if promoted he could then leave, which is what Alex Ferguson did with Ronaldo.. He also says that a team is only good for 2-3 yrs before you start to break it up and start again... 

 

However we kept CC, the same team that had failed twice and then endured his (CC's) negative tactics for a few more months, which based on the results by then (and until his departure) was clear the players (along with supporters) held him accountable for failure..

 

Since then we've become increasingly screwed by the Financial Fair Play Rules, which means that although we've got a Millionaire/ Billionaire owner who has/is willing to invest heavily in the club for promotion. We now seem in a worse position than when we were on the brink of survival and unable to sign players. 

 

So I don't blame Chansiri for the current situation, as he's backed us to the hilt and took a calculated risk, which should've paid off... Unfortunately CC let him down/ us down and the team down with his poor negative tactics...

 

So now the Financial Fair Play/ Bosman Rules have kicked in they are literally destroying our chances for promotion along with a number of other teams that also have wealthy owners/ investors such as Derby, Middlesbrough etc. who are willing to invest their own/ partners/ consortiums money regardless of turnover/ initial yearly accounting losses for promotion. However they cant do this due to FFP rules, which (for example) is why Gibson at Middlesbrough was kicking off about SWFC/ Derby to highlight his own frustrations, as he wants to spend big for promotion, but can't... So the result was they were lucky to avoid the drop last year, we will be this year and Derby next year...

 

To add injury to insult (of the FFP rules) then we've also got the Bosman rulings, which means a player can leave a club free of charge after their contracts expires... So we've got (I believe) Westwood, Bannan and Reach (now playing well) who will most likely leave by the end of this season KW/BB (last pay day for them) and AR to the premiership most likely, which I believe would suit him better football wise. We also can't sell these players now, as we wouldn't get market value with their contracts due to end shortly and we also need these players to stay up this season, as we can't spend.

 

However if we weren't tied on transfers previously due to the FFP rules then these players would've most likely left the club already for a fee to move elsewhere. Unfortunately they are now unlikely to agree an extensions to their contracts (unless for silly wages/ long length/ unbalancing the club) especially when a large signing on fee elsewhere is looming, high wages/ long contract (no initial fee), then we have the SWFC bad Karma/ wages issue and other clubs are already interested in signing them...

 

So for me its CC messing up with promotion and then the resulting rules of Financial Fair Play causing the issues we have currently... Its not Chansiri who invested like he said he would in the club and since the FFP kicked in has had his hands tied... He's also done all he can to get around the rules by buying the ground for stupid money and luckily reducing the points deduction (by 6 so far) due to the EFL error on their accounting advice mistake on the ground... 

 

I think that NT will keep us up and then hopefully we won't be tied by FFP rules in the closed season, which is when we should get a proven manager and spend big like Wolves did and go for it (rules don't count if promoted) or we will be stuck in the championship for years to come...

 

 

A good write up but DC has to take responsibility I'm afraid. 

After getting rid of Stuart Gray he had to appoint a top rate manager with a proven record, then success with the money we threw at it would have been more likely, if not then at the very least the long term plan would have been more sound and the seeds would have bore more fruit. 

[kingsidney]

Says he hates negative football, hires jos, monk and pulls. 

 

Stupidity not circumstance. 

[Mystic Neg]

It's an interesting theory but for me, Chansiri is reaping what he sowed.

 

It's all well and good saying he is a victim of circumstance, but they are all circumstances of his own actions and arrogance. Had he bothered to lay the foundations at any point one example being to use expertise to develop a sustainable model for the club we might not be in this position.

 

He appointed Carlos, he didn't sack him after Huddersfield, he has stuck by a recruitment model / player sales model that is failing, he oversaw the cooking of the books, he appointed negative nigel managers when he wanted attacking football, he is incapable of reflecting and reluctant to adapt his approach, he still blames everyone else including fans for his own shortcomings.

 

I have zero sympathy for him, he has learnt nothing.

[BowOwl]

4 minutes ago, gurujuan said:

I will concentrate on the football side of things, because I don’t know much about running a multi million pound business. In fact I probably know less about running a big business, than DC knew about football when he first took over 

On the football front, I think DC is learning, slowly, but he’s still at the mercy of his advisors. Moving with impressive speed to assemble a set up that stormed to the play off final He invested heavily in quality players, and a shrewd tactician, in Carlos. When I say invested heavily, we may not have had one of the top budgets in the division, but we were able to add enough quality, to an already solid squad that had been assembled by Stuart Gray, under Mandaric. There were already some good players here, who were to make up the nucleus of that play off side, but remember, they had been nowhere near the play offs under the previous manager. We overachieved in season one 

By season two, DC had changed his advisors, and that’s where things started going wrong. Following the Wembley defeat, Carlos had identified where he needed to strengthen the squad. A list of targets was drawn up, which included Lucas Piazon and William Carvalho, but according to Carlos, none of those targets were delivered. Instead he got Fletcher, Reach and Abdi, none of whom were an improvement on what we had, or what was needed. More players would follow, too many in fact, and mainly ageing British players, who didn’t exactly energise the squad. A lot of money was spent, but arguably, didn’t really strengthen the squad. Despite this, the team again reached the play offs. They did this while overcoming an injury crisis that would have floored most teams. Carlos adopted a different way of playing, that might not have been entertaining, but certainly was effective. Why did he feel he needed to do that? Perhaps he was disgruntled with the direction of recruitment, or maybe he thought the squad now didn’t have the legs to play as we had done in season one. I am not convinced that it was because of his stated reason, that we had been worked out. Nevertheless, to reach the play offs again was quite an achievement. Although I didn’t particularly like the new way of playing, it was a good tactical innovation that suited the players we had. Unlike Pulis, or Monk’s defensive set ups, Carlos’s was based on control, and keeping the ball. Having reached the play offs, we did rather blow it in that home game against Huddersfield. However, from Carlos’s point of view, those same tactics had got him to the play offs, and through the first leg, so why change? In hindsight, yes we wish he perhaps had, but it’s easy to see why he didn’t. Still, a missed opportunity, as I believe we could have beaten that Reading side that eventually went up. 
Plenty of people said that DC should have sacked Carlos after that Huddersfield game. Why would he do that though? In his eyes, Carlos had taken us to the play offs two years running, improving our league position in the process. With his advisors telling him that the signing of Jordan Rhodes, a player the manager obviously never wanted, would be the one who finally get us over the line, I can see why he stuck with the manager. I’m pretty certain Carlos though, might have had reservations about the way things were going. We were up against it in season three, amidst another injury crisis, struggling in the bottom half of the table when Chansiri and Carlos decided to go their separate ways. 
Should Carlos have stayed? Probably not, I don’t think he saw eye to eye with the direction of travel we were taking. I’m not sure that it was a case of the money running out, he has proved that he can build sides on a shoestring. Pretty certain things would not have been so bad as they are now, at least not on the pitch. 
After that, it’s been one bad appointment after another. Misguided, or misadvised, DC has continued to support those managers as best he can, within the constraints of FFP Its a cliche, but this next managerial appointment is one he simply has to get right.
 

I almost agree, but Carlos was never a skilled long term manager. He was a brilliant positive thinking short term guy. And was seriously stubborn when he changed to defensive minding. 

No chance he should have been sacked after Huddersfield, we had been progressing for 4 years straight at that time. But his downfall was he couldn't re-build after the 2 year window of a good squad. If he had done that, he would be a great manager. 

[gurujuan]

2 minutes ago, BowOwl said:

I almost agree, but Carlos was never a skilled long term manager. He was a brilliant positive thinking short term guy. And was seriously stubborn when he changed to defensive minding. 

No chance he should have been sacked after Huddersfield, we had been progressing for 4 years straight at that time. But his downfall was he couldn't re-build after the 2 year window of a good squad. If he had done that, he would be a great manager. 

I think he tried, but DC and his new advisors were taking the club in a different direction.

[CircleSeven]

I at first thought the OP was a wind up. A piece of satire where you put such crazy notions in a well written piece to draw attention to specific daft ideas some people hold. Still not sure that isn’t the case. 
To fully pick it apart I’d have to write a piece as long as the OP and no one would read it. 
Anyway, Bosman ruling was in 1995. 
The play off final was in 2016. 
Carlos left in 2017 (incidentally- we were favourites for promotion that year).
Financial Fair Play has been in the Championship since 2012. In it’s current guise since 2016. 
It is now 2021!

 

[Stripes or die]

He bought this club to make money for himself. It didn't work. The end.

[room0035]

A victim of circumstance is someone who traps his fingers in the door. DC has been a victim of spending the most money of any chairman in our history to make the club worse. 

 

He has blames advisors,  managers, the fans, the customers, the EFL, the premier league, the injuries, the pitch.

 

Its painful hearing this long draw out excuses for DC after 6 year still not having a clue what he is doing. In all honesty who in any job in any industry in any place after 6 years would still have no idea what he was doing.

 

The club has been badly run by someone we are told is a business man, but in the time hear shown no business acumen and for me replacing supporters and sponsors of the team with companies that don't even have employees to sponsoring the team leaves a bad taste in most Wednesdayites mouths. 

 

I just cannot take things like this seriously, other team go for promotion then take the pain we went for promotion in 2015/16 season and 5 years later are still taking the pain. Do we sit here is 2 years time struggling at the wrong end of league 1 or worse blaming the salary caps why we cannot progress the club.

 

Things can be put in place that do not affect FFP, a Director of football to run the team, investment in the facilities and the youth set up. Develop the clubs operation to make the club an all year round business not just a match day business. But if the club was made sustainable DC would be out of excuses and that is not going to change any time soon.

[Elderly Owl]

7 hours ago, Tollertonowl said:

When Chansiri came to SWFC he clearly stated that he knew very little about English football, but would employ advisors (to help him) and was willing to invest in our club to ensure promotion upto the premier league. He kept to his word immediately investing funds into the stadium along with a new manager (arguably a bit premature) and a number of high value players (at least to SWFC) for key areas.

 

Then the new manager said that he'd let the team pick itself for the first year and sit back to analyse the team performances/players during this time. The results of this approach was an SWFC team that played fast attacking football and scored goals e.g. we beat Arsenal (full team) in the cup, but also played them off the park in terms of football. Then after Christmas we were looking like contenders for (possibly automatic) promotion (at least the playoffs), which is when Carlos stopped watching the team and took charge along with imposing negative tactics, which I believe resulted in a the play-off place  (for 2yrs running) and also losing out to Hull/Huddersfield (who were both promoted).

 

The latter game (after a full season of enduring CC's defensive football (for the greater good - grind it out - pass back - pass side ways) whilst knowing what we could actually do as an unleashed attacking side) so Huddersfield was just unforgivable, as I've a few mates that support them so aside from the usual banter/ turning the knife/ torturing me on the final result etc....

 

They actually took pity on me and gave their honest analysis of the game, which was WTF was your manager doing with the negative tactics given the circumstances - does he understand the rules... They reckoned (as did I) that if we'd have gone all out attack that they would have been unable to hang on.... They also ask me if CC actually new what the rules were for the play-offs given his tactics.

 

Anyway after losing out in the playoffs for the 2nd time we had (with Chansiri's Money) taken a big chance on the push and spent too much on players/ high wages/ old players (injury Prone) with long contracts to get us over the promotion line, which if we'd gone up made sense, as we'd just release them...

 

The team we had should've gained promotion in the first year and then most definitely gained promotion in the 2nd year, CC messed up with tactics and should've been sacked immediately after the Huddersfield game... By this point we also really needed to start changing the team, as most players had been at SWFC for over 3yrs and some players had asked to leave for premier league clubs (FF/AR).... 

 

An example is FF who spat his dummy out when refused a transfer which (for me) we handled badly as we should've just agreed with him to stay until the closed season and then if promoted he could then leave, which is what Alex Ferguson did with Ronaldo.. He also says that a team is only good for 2-3 yrs before you start to break it up and start again... 

 

However we kept CC, the same team that had failed twice and then endured his (CC's) negative tactics for a few more months, which based on the results by then (and until his departure) was clear the players (along with supporters) held him accountable for failure..

 

Since then we've become increasingly screwed by the Financial Fair Play Rules, which means that although we've got a Millionaire/ Billionaire owner who has/is willing to invest heavily in the club for promotion. We now seem in a worse position than when we were on the brink of survival and unable to sign players. 

 

So I don't blame Chansiri for the current situation, as he's backed us to the hilt and took a calculated risk, which should've paid off... Unfortunately CC let him down/ us down and the team down with his poor negative tactics...

 

So now the Financial Fair Play/ Bosman Rules have kicked in they are literally destroying our chances for promotion along with a number of other teams that also have wealthy owners/ investors such as Derby, Middlesbrough etc. who are willing to invest their own/ partners/ consortiums money regardless of turnover/ initial yearly accounting losses for promotion. However they cant do this due to FFP rules, which (for example) is why Gibson at Middlesbrough was kicking off about SWFC/ Derby to highlight his own frustrations, as he wants to spend big for promotion, but can't... So the result was they were lucky to avoid the drop last year, we will be this year and Derby next year...

 

To add injury to insult (of the FFP rules) then we've also got the Bosman rulings, which means a player can leave a club free of charge after their contracts expires... So we've got (I believe) Westwood, Bannan and Reach (now playing well) who will most likely leave by the end of this season KW/BB (last pay day for them) and AR to the premiership most likely, which I believe would suit him better football wise. We also can't sell these players now, as we wouldn't get market value with their contracts due to end shortly and we also need these players to stay up this season, as we can't spend.

 

However if we weren't tied on transfers previously due to the FFP rules then these players would've most likely left the club already for a fee to move elsewhere. Unfortunately they are now unlikely to agree an extensions to their contracts (unless for silly wages/ long length/ unbalancing the club) especially when a large signing on fee elsewhere is looming, high wages/ long contract (no initial fee), then we have the SWFC bad Karma/ wages issue and other clubs are already interested in signing them...

 

So for me its CC messing up with promotion and then the resulting rules of Financial Fair Play causing the issues we have currently... Its not Chansiri who invested like he said he would in the club and since the FFP kicked in has had his hands tied... He's also done all he can to get around the rules by buying the ground for stupid money and luckily reducing the points deduction (by 6 so far) due to the EFL error on their accounting advice mistake on the ground... 

 

I think that NT will keep us up and then hopefully we won't be tied by FFP rules in the closed season, which is when we should get a proven manager and spend big like Wolves did and go for it (rules don't count if promoted) or we will be stuck in the championship for years to come...

 

 

 

 

Yep, but the real t*rd in the water pipe is the stance on parachute payments. One law for the relegated and another for the rest. You can’t have a system with different rules for the top tier that still apply when you’re no longer in the top tier! It’s not bloody rocket science!

[Elderly Owl]

30 minutes ago, DJMortimer said:

That opening post is biased beyond belief. A classic example of deciding the conclusion first and then presenting the evidence to try and conform with it, whilst at no time giving the tiniest flicker of consideration for an alternative scenario. I'm not going to take on the equivalent of arguing with a Trump supporter though. It's difficult to rationalise with the fundamentally irrational.

 

We may each have our own thoughts on some of the mistakes of the last few years, but there are some core ones on which there is broad agreement and those at the very top of the club are responsible for most of them. The big question for me is exactly who are those people? Suspicions linger that the likes of Paixao and his associates are not mere advisors who can be pushed aside at the chairman's behest.

It’s only biased because you don’t agree with it! I thought he made some good points ( but then again I’m biased too)