Chansiri is a victim of circumstances....

[Tollertonowl]

When Chansiri came to SWFC he clearly stated that he knew very little about English football, but would employ advisors (to help him) and was willing to invest in our club to ensure promotion upto the premier league. He kept to his word immediately investing funds into the stadium along with a new manager (arguably a bit premature) and a number of high value players (at least to SWFC) for key areas.

 

Then the new manager said that he'd let the team pick itself for the first year and sit back to analyse the team performances/players during this time. The results of this approach was an SWFC team that played fast attacking football and scored goals e.g. we beat Arsenal (full team) in the cup, but also played them off the park in terms of football. Then after Christmas we were looking like contenders for (possibly automatic) promotion (at least the playoffs), which is when Carlos stopped watching the team and took charge along with imposing negative tactics, which I believe resulted in a the play-off place  (for 2yrs running) and also losing out to Hull/Huddersfield (who were both promoted).

 

The latter game (after a full season of enduring CC's defensive football (for the greater good - grind it out - pass back - pass side ways) whilst knowing what we could actually do as an unleashed attacking side) so Huddersfield was just unforgivable, as I've a few mates that support them so aside from the usual banter/ turning the knife/ torturing me on the final result etc....

 

They actually took pity on me and gave their honest analysis of the game, which was WTF was your manager doing with the negative tactics given the circumstances - does he understand the rules... They reckoned (as did I) that if we'd have gone all out attack that they would have been unable to hang on.... They also ask me if CC actually new what the rules were for the play-offs given his tactics.

 

Anyway after losing out in the playoffs for the 2nd time we had (with Chansiri's Money) taken a big chance on the push and spent too much on players/ high wages/ old players (injury Prone) with long contracts to get us over the promotion line, which if we'd gone up made sense, as we'd just release them...

 

The team we had should've gained promotion in the first year and then most definitely gained promotion in the 2nd year, CC messed up with tactics and should've been sacked immediately after the Huddersfield game... By this point we also really needed to start changing the team, as most players had been at SWFC for over 3yrs and some players had asked to leave for premier league clubs (FF/AR).... 

 

An example is FF who spat his dummy out when refused a transfer which (for me) we handled badly as we should've just agreed with him to stay until the closed season and then if promoted he could then leave, which is what Alex Ferguson did with Ronaldo.. He also says that a team is only good for 2-3 yrs before you start to break it up and start again... 

 

However we kept CC, the same team that had failed twice and then endured his (CC's) negative tactics for a few more months, which based on the results by then (and until his departure) was clear the players (along with supporters) held him accountable for failure..

 

Since then we've become increasingly screwed by the Financial Fair Play Rules, which means that although we've got a Millionaire/ Billionaire owner who has/is willing to invest heavily in the club for promotion. We now seem in a worse position than when we were on the brink of survival and unable to sign players. 

 

So I don't blame Chansiri for the current situation, as he's backed us to the hilt and took a calculated risk, which should've paid off... Unfortunately CC let him down/ us down and the team down with his poor negative tactics...

 

So now the Financial Fair Play/ Bosman Rules have kicked in they are literally destroying our chances for promotion along with a number of other teams that also have wealthy owners/ investors such as Derby, Middlesbrough etc. who are willing to invest their own/ partners/ consortiums money regardless of turnover/ initial yearly accounting losses for promotion. However they cant do this due to FFP rules, which (for example) is why Gibson at Middlesbrough was kicking off about SWFC/ Derby to highlight his own frustrations, as he wants to spend big for promotion, but can't... So the result was they were lucky to avoid the drop last year, we will be this year and Derby next year...

 

To add injury to insult (of the FFP rules) then we've also got the Bosman rulings, which means a player can leave a club free of charge after their contracts expires... So we've got (I believe) Westwood, Bannan and Reach (now playing well) who will most likely leave by the end of this season KW/BB (last pay day for them) and AR to the premiership most likely, which I believe would suit him better football wise. We also can't sell these players now, as we wouldn't get market value with their contracts due to end shortly and we also need these players to stay up this season, as we can't spend.

 

However if we weren't tied on transfers previously due to the FFP rules then these players would've most likely left the club already for a fee to move elsewhere. Unfortunately they are now unlikely to agree an extensions to their contracts (unless for silly wages/ long length/ unbalancing the club) especially when a large signing on fee elsewhere is looming, high wages/ long contract (no initial fee), then we have the SWFC bad Karma/ wages issue and other clubs are already interested in signing them...

 

So for me its CC messing up with promotion and then the resulting rules of Financial Fair Play causing the issues we have currently... Its not Chansiri who invested like he said he would in the club and since the FFP kicked in has had his hands tied... He's also done all he can to get around the rules by buying the ground for stupid money and luckily reducing the points deduction (by 6 so far) due to the EFL error on their accounting advice mistake on the ground... 

 

I think that NT will keep us up and then hopefully we won't be tied by FFP rules in the closed season, which is when we should get a proven manager and spend big like Wolves did and go for it (rules don't count if promoted) or we will be stuck in the championship for years to come...

 

 

 

 

[bobness]

"Excellent post!"

[eightbelow]

Good well thought out post, however he hired Jos Ludidnthaveaclue, that alone makes him fully responsible for the mess we are in now. He should have weathered the storm with Carlos and reloaded and we would now be back in the thick of things. He chose to fire CC and its been all down hill since and we may not have hit the bottom.

[Tollertonowl]

21 minutes ago, eightbelow said:

Good well thought out post, however he hired Jos Ludidnthaveaclue, that alone makes him fully responsible for the mess we are in now. He should have weathered the storm with Carlos and reloaded and we would now be back in the thick of things. He chose to fire CC and its been all down hill since and we may not have hit the bottom.

It was downhill as soon as CC started imposing his tactics and it resulted in him losing the dressing room... The Huddersfield game was unforgivable and the football we played that season was hard to watch to then... I endured it on the basis of grinding out results for promotion to the PL. He'd also lost the team by the third season as like me I think that they blamed him for failing to achieve promotion with his negative tactics. He also screwed up Kieran Lee by continually bringing him back early from injuries. However I'll admit that Jos was a mistake along with others since.  

[quinnssweetshop]

3 minutes ago, Tollertonowl said:

 However I'll admit that Jos was a mistake along with others since.  

Sadly destroys a well written post

There's been a lot of years since Jos and a lot of Paxos abysmal influence

 

[nevthelodgemoorowl]

First there came the numbers which had limited success to say the least. There was a brief flirtation with colours but the fans commitment to Royal Blue, Black and White was completely insurmountable. There followed a full 8 minute tribute to the deceased member of the Thai Royal Family; We all dutifully stood for the duration of the tribute but nothing in this world of mysticism seemed to help our cause. Next we had the Thai Buddhist Priest in full Saffron Garbe . He even got me at it with a picture of the old King Rama Chulalongkorn as my avatar. I felt sure we would arrive following Wembley; But all the above, we could add the sticks, the Dice, the Tea leaves, refusing to change your socks or your underpants. NOTHING SEEMED TO WORK ! Some idiots even went as far as discussing Decent Managers together with Directors of Football IDIOTS.

 

We need to stick with Chansiri ! With so many lucky charms in his locker the next one could be waiting just around the corner. A little patience please.  

[flo]

i think if he gets a bit more involved well turn around and head for promotion. 

[Tollertonowl]

2 minutes ago, nevthelodgemoorowl said:

First there came the numbers which had limited success to say the least. There was a brief flirtation with colours but the fans commitment to Royal Blue, Black and White was completely insurmountable. There followed a full 8 minute tribute to the deceased member of the Thai Royal Family; We all dutifully stood for the duration of the tribute but nothing in this world of mysticism seemed to help our cause. Next we had the Thai Buddhist Priest in full Saffron Garbe . He even got me at it with a picture of the old King Rama Chulalongkorn as my avatar. I felt sure we would arrive following Wembley; But all the above, we could add the sticks, the Dice, the Tea leaves, refusing to change your socks or your underpants. NOTHING SEEMED TO WORK ! Some idiots even went as far as discussing Decent Managers together with Directors of Football IDIOTS.

 

We need to stick with Chansiri ! With so many lucky charms in his locker the next one could be waiting just around the corner. A little patience please.  

Whats the alternative? He's put in the cash and was let down by CC and now screwed with FFP rules/ Bosman.. Since then he's mad some good decisions/ bad decisions/ been unfortunate e.g. S Bruce. So do we go back to the crap we watched for circa 15yrs pre Chansiri and wondering if we will exist on a season to season basis as a club or wait until FFP restrictions let us go for it again. Even if he goes we will be screwed on spending as a club anyway so a new owner won't change anything... So what I'm trying to say is that it's not him, as his hands are tied.... 

[Inspector Lestrade]

21 minutes ago, nevthelodgemoorowl said:

First there came the numbers which had limited success to say the least. There was a brief flirtation with colours but the fans commitment to Royal Blue, Black and White was completely insurmountable. There followed a full 8 minute tribute to the deceased member of the Thai Royal Family; We all dutifully stood for the duration of the tribute but nothing in this world of mysticism seemed to help our cause. Next we had the Thai Buddhist Priest in full Saffron Garbe . He even got me at it with a picture of the old King Rama Chulalongkorn as my avatar. I felt sure we would arrive following Wembley; But all the above, we could add the sticks, the Dice, the Tea leaves, refusing to change your socks or your underpants. NOTHING SEEMED TO WORK ! Some idiots even went as far as discussing Decent Managers together with Directors of Football IDIOTS.

 

We need to stick with Chansiri ! With so many lucky charms in his locker the next one could be waiting just around the corner. A little patience please.  

 

Eight mins? thought it was two.  The Thai Buddhist Priest did work, if he hadn't  turned up we would be in a much worse place.

[eightbelow]

In the words of Mark Renton, its a poo state of affairs.......

[Blue and white]

1 hour ago, Tollertonowl said:

When Chansiri came to SWFC he clearly stated that he knew very little about English football, but would employ advisors (to help him) and was willing to invest in our club to ensure promotion upto the premier league. He kept to his word immediately investing funds into the stadium along with a new manager (arguably a bit premature) and a number of high value players (at least to SWFC) for key areas. Then the new manager said that he'd let the team pick itself for the first year and sit back to analyse the team performances/players during this time. The results of this approach was an SWFC team that played fast attacking football and scored goals e.g. we beat Arsenal (full team) in the cup, but also played them off the park in terms of football. Then after Christmas we were looking like contenders for (possibly automatic) promotion (at least the playoffs), which is when Carlos stopped watching the team and took charge along with imposing negative tactics, which I believe resulted in a the play-off place  (for 2yrs running) and also losing out to Hull/Huddersfield (who were both promoted). The latter game (after a full season of enduring CC's defensive football (for the greater good - grind it out - pass back - pass side ways) whilst knowing what we could actually do as an unleashed attacking side) so Huddersfield was just unforgivable, as I've a few mates that support them so aside from the usual banter/ turning the knife/ torturing me on the final result etc.... They actually took pity on me and gave their honest analysis of the game, which was WTF was your manager doing with the negative tactics given the circumstances - does he understand the rules... They reckoned (as did I) that if we'd have gone all out attack that they would have been unable to hang on.... They also ask me if CC actually new what the rules were for the play-offs given his tactics.

 

Anyway after losing out in the playoffs for the 2nd time we had (with Chansiri's Money) taken a big chance on the push and spent too much on players/ high wages/ old players (injury Prone) with long contracts to get us over the promotion line, which if we'd gone up made sense, as we'd just release them...

 

The team we had should've gained promotion in the first year and then most definitely gained promotion in the 2nd year, CC messed up with tactics and should've been sacked immediately after the Huddersfield game... By this point we also really needed to start changing the team, as most players had been at SWFC for over 3yrs and some players had asked to leave for premier league clubs (FF/AR).... An example is FF who spat his dummy out when refused a transfer which (for me) we handled badly as we should've just agreed with him to stay until the closed season and then if promoted he could then leave, which is what Alex Ferguson did with Ronaldo.. He also says that a team is only good for 2-3 yrs before you start to break it up and start again... 

 

However we kept CC, the same team that had failed twice and then endured his (CC's) negative tactics for a few more months, which based on the results by then (and until his departure) was clear the players (along with supporters) held him accountable for failure..

 

Since then we've become increasingly screwed by the Financial Fair Play Rules, which means that although we've got a Millionaire/ Billionaire owner who has/is willing to invest heavily in the club for promotion. We now seem in a worse position than when we were on the brink of survival and unable to sign players. 

 

So I don't blame Chansiri for the current situation, as he's backed us to the hilt and took a calculated risk, which should've paid off... Unfortunately CC let him down/ us down and the team down with his poor negative tactics...

 

So now the Financial Fair Play/ Bosman Rules have kicked in they are literally destroying our chances for promotion along with a number of other teams that also have wealthy owners/ investors such as Derby, Middlesbrough etc. who are willing to invest their own/ partners/ consortiums money regardless of turnover/ initial yearly accounting losses for promotion. However they cant do this due to FFP rules, which (for example) is why Gibson at Middlesbrough was kicking off about SWFC/ Derby to highlight his own frustrations, as he wants to spend big for promotion, but can't... So the result was they were lucky to avoid the drop last year, we will be this year and Derby next year...

 

To add injury to insult (of the FFP rules) then we've also got the Bosman rulings, which means a player can leave a club free of charge after their contracts expires... So we've got (I believe) Westwood, Bannan and Reach (now playing well) who will most likely leave by the end of this season KW/BB (last pay day for them) and AR to the premiership most likely, which I believe would suit him better football wise. We also can't sell these players now, as we wouldn't get market value with their contracts due to end shortly and we also need these players to stay up this season, as we can't spend. However if we weren't tied on transfers previously due to the FFP rules then these players would've most likely left the club already for a fee to move elsewhere. Unfortunately they are now unlikely to agree an extensions to their contracts (unless for silly wages/ long length/ unbalancing the club) especially when a large signing on fee elsewhere is looming, high wages/ long contract (no initial fee), then we have the SWFC bad Karma/ wages issue and other clubs are already interested in signing them...

 

So for me its CC messing up with promotion and then the resulting rules of Financial Fair Play causing the issues we have currently... Its not Chansiri who invested like he said he would in the club and since the FFP kicked in has had his hands tied... He's also done all he can to get around the rules by buying the ground for stupid money and luckily reducing the points deduction (by 6 so far) due to the EFL error on their accounting advice mistake on the ground... 

 

I think that NT will keep us up and then hopefully we won't be tied by FFP rules in the closed season, which is when we should get a proven manager and spend big like Wolves did and go for it (rules don't count if promoted) or we will be stuck in the championship for years to come...

 

 

 

 

CC messed up the tactics but DC messed up the recruitment, it was clear what was needed after the Hull debacle and we went against that and made some very very EXPENSIVE mistakes Abdi, Rhodes etc, players that weren't needed, brought nothing to the club and cost us a fortune.

We kept hold of Carlos to long and that is down to DC.

The current slide down the table and financial state of the club is down to DC.

In short he is incompetent beyond belief and needs to go ASAP, how you can defend him is laughable.

Edited January 20, 2021 by Blue and white

[Blue and white]

44 minutes ago, flo said:

i think if he gets a bit more involved well turn around and head for promotion. 

Its sounds like he is involved enough, a lot less involved may lead to a decent manager wanting the job.

[Manwë]

2 hours ago, Tollertonowl said:

 

So I don't blame Chansiri for the current situation

This.

 

There's no way the man who owns and controls the club for the past 6 years is to blame for the position of the club.  No way at all.  It's not like any of the decisions or indecisions were his.  It was all the people that he directly employed that are to blame in my opinion.

 

I also blame the EFL and those  rules of the game.  We have a billionaire owner and could sign 100 players from La Liga, but those ******** down at the EFL will only allow us to start with 11 on the pitch.  WHY??

 

Chansiri is the victim here, Wednesday are the victim.  This is an injustice of epic proportions.

 

Where's the A-Team when you need them?

 

[Orlando_Trustful]

Good comments, although I would disagree we should have got promoted in the 15/16 season. Hull and Brighton were both far better than us over that season, especially Brighton. 

 

However, we absolutely should have won the playoffs in 16/17. I remember walking back to the car after that and saying that defeat will now set us back a few years. It's looking more like a decade. 

 

[Blue and white]

9 minutes ago, Orlando_Trustful said:

Good comments, although I would disagree we should have got promoted in the 15/16 season. Hull and Brighton were both far better than us over that season, especially Brighton. 

 

However, we absolutely should have won the playoffs in 16/17. I remember walking back to the car after that and saying that defeat will now set us back a few years. It's looking more like a decade. 

 

We are more likely to slide down the leagues than we are to get promoted.

It's been a fuckup on and off the field of epic proportions.

[BRADDO]

Nah,

 

Chansiri is simply incompetent. 

[quinnssweetshop]

2 hours ago, Tollertonowl said:

 So do we go back to the crap we watched for circa 15yrs pre Chansiri

Yep, absolutely 
 

 

[Guest Grandad]

I genuinely can't believe what I just read.

[Bing Cosby]

Chansiri isn't a victim of circumstance, he's the victim of his own ego.

 

 

[Blue and white]

3 minutes ago, Bing Cosby said:

Chansiri isn't a victim of circumstance, he's the victim of his own ego.

 

 

And incompetence.

Serious question, why would you buy into a business you know fuckall about and proceed to spend huge sums of money whilst not really knowing what your looking for.

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to know that it isn't going to end well as we are finding out.