Paul Cook “ If you’re not allowed to manage, then you’re an employee and not a manager.”

[rickygoo 10,506]

Just now, adelphi1867 said:

I am not defending Chansiri here, but when Mandric owned the club the 'Manager' had very little input in the player recruitment.

He just told the club the positions we needed strengthening and the club brought in players we could afford, not maybe the players the 'Manager' wanted, so what is the difference?.

We used to be poo at it and we still are isn’t a coherent approach. 

[bubbleowl 238]

Paul cook saying managers need to manage is a thing of the past. Most teams employ a manager/coach to oversee the first team and recruitment is dealt with by other people. The policy at the club is correct but the execution of it is shocking on two fronts.

First is the recruitment team don't all seem on the same page and on occasion have possible personal interests and until they all sing off the same hymn sheet that will always fail.

Secondly why employ people like Bruce, and pulis who are old school and monk who didn't fit the profile. Chansiri needs to go back to what kind of worked of a coach not a manager who knows what is expected of him like Carlos, the problem I have is I'm not convinced the owner will learn from his mistakes and we will just plod along leaping from one nightmare to the next

 

[areNOTwhatTHEYseem 44,802]

13 minutes ago, rickygoo said:

He wants a head coach without the investment in the coherent structure that goes alongside it. The end result - a squad like the one we have.  When will people’s patience and tolerance  with the stupid way we’ve been run be exhausted? It’s extraordinary. 

 

Exactly.

 

It's baffling that some posters are trying to equate what we're doing with the structures in place at clubs like Brentford or Watford.

 

What we're apparently doing is sticking a spoiler on a Vauxhall Astra and hoping it'll drive like a Porsche.  

[hugeowl 8,594]

6 minutes ago, adelphi1867 said:

I am not defending Chansiri here, but when Mandric owned the club the 'Manager' had very little input in the player recruitment.

He just told the club the positions we needed strengthening and the club brought in players we could afford, not maybe the players the 'Manager' wanted, so what is the difference?.

Manderic was a football man as was Alderidge 

Chansiri would have been better off buying the club and leaving Mandy in charge. 
Aldridge stayed on for 12 months I think but probably had little input after Chansiri got fully into megalomaniac mode 

[SiJ 48,759]

I think the way the system is meant to work is as follows: 

 

- Manager and recruitment team identify positions they want to strengthen

 

- Recruitment team, scouts etc., identify a group of players for said position  

 

- Manager picks the option he wants, assuming that player is affordable and so forth...

 

It appears to me we do the first two parts and then the manager gets whomever Chansiri and Paxo want.

 

Remember the Chansiri rant a few weeks back where he was going on about Pulis.

 

One of his remarks was along the lines of Pulis didn't think the current team was up to it or he didn't want to coach them or something.

 

I took that on face value at the time, that Chansiri was angered at what he believed to be a lack of effort on Baseball Caps part to manager the current side. The more I think about it, I think he was more angry that Pulis was telling Chansiri that his team which he and his mates had assembled was crap. A blow to his delicate ego.

[WalthamOwl 18,896]

1 minute ago, SiJ said:

I think the way the system is meant to work is as follows: 

 

- Manager and recruitment team identify positions they want to strengthen

 

- Recruitment team, scouts etc., identify a group of players for said position  

 

- Manager picks the option he wants, assuming that player is affordable and so forth...

 

It appears to me we do the first two parts and then the manager gets whomever Chansiri and Paxo want.

 

Remember the Chansiri rant a few weeks back where he was going on about Pulis.

 

One of his remarks was along the lines of Pulis didn't think the current team was up to it or he didn't want to coach them or something.

 

I took that on face value at the time, that Chansiri was angered at what he believed to be a lack of effort on Baseball Caps part to manager the current side. The more I think about it, I think he was more angry that Pulis was telling Chansiri that his team which he and his mates had assembled was crap. A blow to his delicate ego.

Excellent post. Completely agree. Especially that last paragraph. 

[@owlstalk 44,598]

2 minutes ago, SiJ said:

I think the way the system is meant to work is as follows: 

 

- Manager and recruitment team identify positions they want to strengthen

 

- Recruitment team, scouts etc., identify a group of players for said position  

 

- Manager picks the option he wants, assuming that player is affordable and so forth...

 

It appears to me we do the first two parts and then the manager gets whomever Chansiri and Paxo want.

 

Remember the Chansiri rant a few weeks back where he was going on about Pulis.

 

One of his remarks was along the lines of Pulis didn't think the current team was up to it or he didn't want to coach them or something.

 

I took that on face value at the time, that Chansiri was angered at what he believed to be a lack of effort on Baseball Caps part to manager the current side. The more I think about it, I think he was more angry that Pulis was telling Chansiri that his team which he and his mates had assembled was crap. A blow to his delicate ego.

 

 

Maybe Chansiri had been convinced by advisors that the squad IS good enough for promotion 

[swfc1983 3,172]

It makes total sense for a club to buy players that fit a philosophy or style that they are settling up for rather than a managers pick or old mates, no problem with moneyball and all that especially with modern football having such a high turnover of managers, BUT we don’t have a philosophy or a style to pin to, it just seems scattergun and without purpose. Any manager or head coach, if you prefer, coming in now is still up against the same poo the previous lot have had to deal with.
We are still trying to put the roof on before putting the foundations down.

[SiJ 48,759]

1 minute ago, @owlstalk said:

 

 

Maybe Chansiri had been convinced by advisors that the squad IS good enough for promotion 

They probably have.

 

After all, he's paying them well for their advice.

[wellbeaten-the-owl 1,039]

10 minutes ago, bubbleowl said:

Paul cook saying managers need to manage is a thing of the past. Most teams employ a manager/coach to oversee the first team and recruitment is dealt with by other people. The policy at the club is correct but the execution of it is shocking on two fronts.

First is the recruitment team don't all seem on the same page and on occasion have possible personal interests and until they all sing off the same hymn sheet that will always fail.

Secondly why employ people like Bruce, and pulis who are old school and monk who didn't fit the profile. Chansiri needs to go back to what kind of worked of a coach not a manager who knows what is expected of him like Carlos, the problem I have is I'm not convinced the owner will learn from his mistakes and we will just plod along leaping from one nightmare to the next

 

Probably the biggest step forward in recruitment team was when Bruce was here, he brought in Downes from villa who has been responsible for bringing in some decent players since 2029 but problem is so limited by budget, still suffering from recruitment mistakes made year after play off final. Maybe when we start having leeway with FFP we may see if lessons have been learnt recruitment wise.

 

What certainly doesn't help is chairman spouting off about wanting positive football whilst appointing Jos, monk and Pulis as manager.  

[Dot 2,407]

According to the Sheffield star, the recruitment team is made up of two people that Bruce brought in and a head of scouting

David Downes, Dean Hughes  and Ken Ryder

[fpowl 2,739]

Which ever way you look at it chansiri needs to restructure 

 

he simply isn’t executing the results as chairman and his advisors if that’s where’s hes Bering led from are not getting away 

 

chansiri needs structure if he wants a head coach fine then he needs a director of football in my opinion 

 

otherwise let the manager take over footballing matters 

 

for footballing matters it wouldn’t hurt for him to have that chief executive and the two positions effectively become his in-house advisors but they are in the club driving it on a day to day basis 

 

our club structure should look like this 

 
                          Chansiri 

  Director of football   Chief executive 

 

then the structure continues 

 

                   Director of football

Head coach Recruitment Physio/ sports 

science etc....

 

                      chief executive 

ticketing.   Sponsors.    Hospitality. Health and safety.  IT public relations Matketing etc...

 

what chansiri is effectively trying to do is the director of football and chief executive role but part time abs being advised by people who are not employed by the club it’s madness 

 

which is why we are in a shambles 

 

If he doesn’t want a DOF he needs to recruit a manager abs let him take over footballing matters 

 

chansiri is trying to control too much and it’s failing there’s no weakness in having a structure 

 

[Sergeant Tibbs 3,204]

22 hours ago, SallyCinnamon said:

Not saying it is but Paul Cook and Danny Cowley have reservations about managing Sheffield Wednesday.

 

Let me repeat that.

 

Paul Cook previously of Accrington and Wigan, Danny Cowley previously of Lincoln City, have reservations about managing Sheffield Wednesday.

 

Two pretty average managers who have never managed a club the size of ours have reservations of managing the club. 
 

Worrying.

The mighty Steve McLaren turned us down 3 years ago. His reputation has gone downhill since taking Boro to a European final, but at the time he was out of work and we had a reasonable squad.

 

The writing has been on the wall for quite a while. 

[Lucas Joao's Tooth 300]

55 minutes ago, bubbleowl said:

Paul cook saying managers need to manage is a thing of the past. Most teams employ a manager/coach to oversee the first team and recruitment is dealt with by other people. The policy at the club is correct but the execution of it is shocking on two fronts.

First is the recruitment team don't all seem on the same page and on occasion have possible personal interests and until they all sing off the same hymn sheet that will always fail.

Secondly why employ people like Bruce, and pulis who are old school and monk who didn't fit the profile. Chansiri needs to go back to what kind of worked of a coach not a manager who knows what is expected of him like Carlos, the problem I have is I'm not convinced the owner will learn from his mistakes and we will just plod along leaping from one nightmare to the next

 

It's not a thing of the past, your living in the bubble (mind the pun) of the premier league and "football needs to be done like this and played a certain way"

Neither methods are bad approaches, both are tried and tested and work. 

BUT you need to invest in the method and have a clear and direct plan of attack, which we do not have. 

You need to commit to the plan, which we are not doing.

Chansiri wants to go down the head coach role fine, but he needs to employ a DOF not let his "advisors" and himself make DOF decisons.

You're mixing up the recruitment team with the advisors.
The recruitment team are the scouts, the ones employed by Bruce which is David Downes and Dean Hughes. Both of these are employed by the club and will have the clubs interest at heart.
The recruitment team usually work from the managers requests, so for example if the manager says he wants a fast overlapping left back then the recruitment team will look at metrics to who fits the bill, draft up a shortlist and give them back to the manager. However now Chansiri has stated that the new players need to fit his philosophies (which we don't know what they are because there is no clear direction) so you've got the recruitment team vs advisors basically.
 

The "Advisors" are a couple of agents are the one's not directly employed by us and they don't need to have the clubs best interests at heart. They have their own circle of other agents players and managers who they want us to bring in because they get a cut of the transfer fee paid.

The recruitment team will have suggested Andre Green as both men were at Villa when Andre Green was there.
Flint & Patterson were more than likely a Alonso signing as he lists Cardiff as a client on his website this means he will have got a cut out of the transfer fee for Patterson and any loan fees for Flint.

 

 

[Ante's Bubbly 1,570]

10 hours ago, @owlstalk said:

 

 

So basically sit down, shut up, and pay up?

 

Yes we are just his little plaything.

[Ante's Bubbly 1,570]

1 hour ago, adelphi1867 said:

I am not defending Chansiri here, but when Mandric owned the club the 'Manager' had very little input in the player recruitment.

He just told the club the positions we needed strengthening and the club brought in players we could afford, not maybe the players the 'Manager' wanted, so what is the difference?.

 

Megson signed nearly all the players he wanted except that Mandaric brought three players in that were not wanted and Megson only gave them brief run outs. Also MM would not buy Ben Marshall, or Le Fondre. So instead Megson brought in COG who was his next choice, but in a totally dfferent style. MM did what he could with the resources he had and we got promoted.  

[buster123 125]

5 hours ago, hugeowl said:

Manderic was a football man as was Alderidge 

Chansiri would have been better off buying the club and leaving Mandy in charge. 
Aldridge stayed on for 12 months I think but probably had little input after Chansiri got fully into megalomaniac mode 

So wrong on so so many levels. LOLLOLLOL

[bubbleowl 238]

11 hours ago, Sergeant Tibbs said:

The mighty Steve McLaren turned us down 3 years ago. His reputation has gone downhill since taking Boro to a European final, but at the time he was out of work and we had a reasonable squad.

 

The writing has been on the wall for quite a while. 

Was that factually reported and quoted or something read 

[Hitcat 2,198]

He's just got the wrong advisors. The system itself isn't usual. Nobody on here would be moaning if we were being advised by the guys behind Wolves.

[@owlstalk 44,598]

Just now, Hitcat said:

He's just got the wrong advisors. The system itself isn't usual. Nobody on here would be moaning if we were being advised by the guys behind Wolves.

 

 

Bang on mate