Vladimir Ivić

[Jamie]

@JOHNHARKESthihk you need to get rid of that source mate he ain’t got a clue.

[Incognito Owl]

(Sorry for the long post haha, just click the links if you want to read them properly. If not I've wrote most of the key points with a few of my thoughts along the way.)

I still believe you JOHNHARKES, well until after Monday and we still haven't got someone haha. After researching some more I found these:

• 'Demanding but exactly what Watford need' - the Serbian view on Vladimir Ivic https://www.hertfordshiremercury.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/demanding-exactly-what-watford-need-4508769 Some key points: Ivić likes his teams to be really tough to score against/disciplined. At Maccabi Tel Aviv, where Slaviša Jokanović also previously worked, Ivić won the league in both seasons at the club, which Maccabi hadn't won for 4 years before his arrival. In each season, his side just lost one match and conceded only 27 goals in 72 games. In his second season, Maccabi didn't concede a goal in the first 12 league games. He is demanding. Used to needing to perform and win (could work for us in a relegation battle?) Changes formation, not strict on one, sometimes 4-2-3-1, 4-3-3 and 3-5-2. He will want to play possession based football, to build out from the back and be incisive/quick and direct in attack, while remaining defensively sturdy and tough to play against. (This resembles his time at Watford with formations and being defensively good. If I remember reading correctly he mostly played 3/5 at the back and sometimes played 4-2-3-1 and 4-4-2, also had the best defensive record in the Championship.
• A kinda balance view on his time at Watford https://www.thesackrace.com/news/20th-december-2020/next-watford-manager-odds-why-did-ivic-get-sacked-whos-the-new-favourite-and-three-names-that-would-be-successful (My bad it was the 2nd best defensive record.) Also had the joint best home form record. Watford not giving another coach enough time, looking for their 4th manager in 15 months. On paper Ivić ticked all the boxes. Young, exciting, no nonsense and a winner. Below average in most games and the football was poor and painful to watch. Player power being a problem. A lot of fans have highlighted the fact that the problem is the players, they have now not performed for the previous 4 managers (including Nigel Pearson.) (I still think his problems at Watford were down to the players and the club etc. expecting too much. Don't Watford not just want promotion this season, but the title too?) 
• A great in depth article https://louorns.wordpress.com/2020/08/15/what-to-expect-from-vladimir-ivic-at-watford/ He's good at developing youth players. Coached POAK under 20's for 3 seasons before becoming the first team head coach after a caretaker spell. Managed 70 games, W 41, D 12 and L 17, which included a cup win and 2nd in the league. Whilst at the club, seven players 23 or under played over 1000 minutes within the season. Play style was heavy possession. Emphasis on the holding midfielder and flank play, 43/114 goals came from some sort of cross. Off the ball, POAK were very aggressive in trying to win the ball back, pressing immediately once they lost the ball. However, it's very compact and there's no reckless diving in, it is conservative but aggressive if there's such a thing. Individually, POAK looked very poor technically, so it's a testament to Ivić's coaching ability that he made them so affective (also could work for us)  - 37 clean sheets in 70 games isn't a stat to brush off. At Maccabi Tel Aviv, Ivić somewhat tweaked his style of play, going from 13% of his teams passes via long ball per game, to just under 9% in his time at the club. Conceding just 17 goals in his first season and remarkably 10 in the second; the 54/91 clean sheets made Tel Aviv the best defensive team in Israeli football history. He also again introduced younger players, which especially raised the game of then 21 year old Dan Glazer who became a key man for the team in the 19/20 season. Glazer was used very much like Kalvin Phillips at Leeds. Someone who got around the pitch, but started everything offensively. At POAK, Ivić often played two #6 - at Tel Aviv, he opted for one and an #8 and #10 in a 4-1-4-1/4-3-3 variation. Glazer was often screening the back 4 and the rest of the forward players getting into attacking positions. Half way through first season he introduced playing out from the back and building that way, rather than the keeper going long into the corner. Also had his DM become more involved in the buildup. He wants creative players to break the lines and run at defences to open up spaces in wide areas. In doing so, this allows the overlapping of the full backs. Each season he has tweaked something. Whether that's to adapt to the players he has or the quality of the league. His teams are incredibly structured to win. https://twitter.com/louorns/status/1289942268359536641?s=21 A thread from set pieces to the minor details of triangle passes in wide areas. In 3 seasons he has coached, his teams have scored 282 goals - only 48 of them have come from his #9 (again could work with our striker situation?) 115 goals have come from wide players. His sides tend to score lots of goals and concede very little. A young ambitions coach with something to prove is much more beneficial than someone like Chris Hughton who's on the way down and hasn't adapted since 2017. There's obviously flaws in Ivić's management, like sitting back when he should go for it more, but after 2 league losses in 2 years, you can't argue with the formula. I made the comparison to Chris Wilder's Sheffield United, but the more I watched the more I saw it similar to Klopp's title winning Liverpool. It's not beautiful football, it's controlled and affective football.
• His view on our match together this season https://www.thestar.co.uk/sport/football/sheffield-wednesday/watfords-vladimir-ivic-what-was-waste-time-after-sheffield-wednesday-draw-2977476
• Watford's 20 league games under him https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/vladimir-ivic/leistungsdatenDetail/trainer/35944/plus/0?saison_id=&verein_id=1010&liga=&wettbewerb_id=GB2&trainer_id= W 9, D 7, L4, GF 23, GA, 15, Pts 34, PPM 1.70

I feel confident in him after doing all my research on him. Also having a brief look at Jokanović clubs, he had a similar record/was unknown before joining Watford too. People want attacking/ultra attacking football, but the only person I know realistic available would be Paco Jaméz. Would the people wanting this still be happy if we were shipping goals and probably losing. I too would like beautiful attacking football, but being currently realistic in our situation someone like Ivić would be ideal I think, hopefully anyway.                                                                                                                                                                                

Edited January 24, 2021 by Incognito Owl

[JOHNHARKES]

9 hours ago, Jamie said:

@JOHNHARKESthihk you need to get rid of that source mate he ain’t got a clue.

Ok!

[Incognito Owl]

45 minutes ago, Incognito Owl said:

(Sorry for the long post haha, just click the links if you want to read them properly. If not I've wrote most of the key points with a few of my thoughts along the way.)

I still believe you JOHNHARKES, well until after Monday and we still haven't got someone haha. After researching some more I found these:

• 'Demanding but exactly what Watford need' - the Serbian view on Vladimir Ivic https://www.hertfordshiremercury.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/demanding-exactly-what-watford-need-4508769 Some key points: Ivić likes his teams to be really tough to score against/disciplined. At Maccabi Tel Aviv, where Slaviša Jokanović also previously worked, Ivić won the league in both seasons at the club, which Maccabi hadn't won for 4 years before his arrival. In each season, his side just lost one match and conceded only 27 goals in 72 games. In his second season, Maccabi didn't concede a goal in the first 12 league games. He is demanding. Used to needing to perform and win (could work for us in a relegation battle?) Changes formation, not strict on one, sometimes 4-2-3-1, 4-3-3 and 3-5-2. He will want to play possession based football, to build out from the back and be incisive/quick and direct in attack, while remaining defensively sturdy and tough to play against. (This resembles his time at Watford with formations and being defensively good. If I remember reading correctly he mostly played 3/5 at the back and sometimes played 4-2-3-1 and 4-4-2, also had the best defensive record in the Championship.
• A kinda balance view on his time at Watford https://www.thesackrace.com/news/20th-december-2020/next-watford-manager-odds-why-did-ivic-get-sacked-whos-the-new-favourite-and-three-names-that-would-be-successful (My bad it was the 2nd best defensive record.) Also had the joint best home form record. Watford not giving another coach enough time, looking for their 4th manager in 15 months. On paper Ivić ticked all the boxes. Young, exciting, no nonsense and a winner. Below average in most games and the football was poor and painful to watch. Player power being a problem. A lot of fans have highlighted the fact that the problem is the players, they have now not performed for the previous 4 managers (including Nigel Pearson.) (I still think his problems at Watford were down to the players and the club etc. expecting too much. Don't Watford not just want promotion this season, but the title too?) 
• A great in depth article https://louorns.wordpress.com/2020/08/15/what-to-expect-from-vladimir-ivic-at-watford/ He's good at developing youth players. Coached POAK under 20's for 3 seasons before becoming the first team head coach after a caretaker spell. Managed 70 games, W 41, D 12 and L 17, which included a cup win and 2nd in the league. Whilst at the club, seven players 23 or under played over 1000 minutes within the season. Play style was heavy possession. Emphasis on the holding midfielder and flank play, 43/114 goals came from some sort of cross. Off the ball, POAK were very aggressive in trying to win the ball back, pressing immediately once they lost the ball. However, it's very compact and there's no reckless diving in, it is conservative but aggressive if there's such a thing. Individually, POAK looked very poor technically, so it's a testament to Ivić's coaching ability that he made them so affective (also could work for us)  - 37 clean sheets in 70 games isn't a stat to brush off. At Maccabi Tel Aviv, Ivić somewhat tweaked his style of play, going from 13% of his teams passes via long ball per game, to just under 9% in his time at the club. Conceding just 17 goals in his first season and remarkably 10 in the second; the 54/91 clean sheets made Tel Aviv the best defensive team in Israeli football history. He also again introduced younger players, which especially raised the game of then 21 year old Dan Glazer who became a key man for the team in the 19/20 season. Glazer was used very much like Kalvin Phillips at Leeds. Someone who got around the pitch, but started everything offensively. At POAK, Ivić often played two #6 - at Tel Aviv, he opted for one and an #8 and #10 in a 4-1-4-1/4-3-3 variation. Glazer was often screening the back 4 and the rest of the forward players getting into attacking positions. Half way through first season he introduced playing out from the back and building that way, rather than the keeper going long into the corner. Also had his DM become more involved in the buildup. He wants creative players to break the lines and run at defences to open up spaces in wide areas. In doing so, this allows the overlapping of the full backs. Each season he has tweaked something. Whether that's to adapt to the players he has or the quality of the league. His teams are incredibly structured to win. https://twitter.com/louorns/status/1289942268359536641?s=21 A thread from set pieces to the minor details of triangle passes in wide areas. In 3 seasons he has coached, his teams have scored 282 goals - only 48 of them have come from his #9 (again could work with our striker situation?) 115 goals have come from wide players. His sides tend to score lots of goals and concede very little. A young ambitions coach with something to prove is much more beneficial than someone like Chris Hughton who's on the way down and hasn't adapted since 2017. There's obviously flaws in Ivić's management, like sitting back when he should go for it more, but after 2 league losses in 2 years, you can't argue with the formula. I made the comparison to Chris Wilder's Sheffield United, but the more I watched the more I saw it similar to Klopp's title winning Liverpool. It's not beautiful football, it's controlled and affective football.
• His view on our match together this season https://www.thestar.co.uk/sport/football/sheffield-wednesday/watfords-vladimir-ivic-what-was-waste-time-after-sheffield-wednesday-draw-2977476
• Watford's 20 league games under him https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/vladimir-ivic/leistungsdatenDetail/trainer/35944/plus/0?saison_id=&verein_id=1010&liga=&wettbewerb_id=GB2&trainer_id= W 9, D 7, L4, GF 23, GA, 15, Pts 34, PPM 1.70

I feel confident in him after doing all my research on him. Also having a brief look at Jokanović clubs, he had a similar record/was unknown before joining Watford too. People want attacking/ultra attacking football, but the only person I know realistic available would be Paco Jaméz. Would the people wanting this still be happy if we were shipping goals and probably losing. I too would like beautiful attacking football, but being currently realistic in our situation someone like Ivić would be ideal I think, hopefully anyway.                                                                                                                                                                                

Also just to add on the #9 goal scorer part, "Although in his defense the quality he's had at his disposal hasn't been great. He's had to choose from Itay Shechter and Aleksander Prijović, who had failed loan spells at Yeovil and Northampton 10+ years ago."        

[Jamie]

1 hour ago, JOHNHARKES said:

Ok!

Just been reported by Alan Nixon who majority of time is correct that Ivic is not keen on a return to English football just yet. 

[Richmond Owl]

2 hours ago, Incognito Owl said:

(Sorry for the long post haha, just click the links if you want to read them properly. If not I've wrote most of the key points with a few of my thoughts along the way.)

I still believe you JOHNHARKES, well until after Monday and we still haven't got someone haha. After researching some more I found these:

• 'Demanding but exactly what Watford need' - the Serbian view on Vladimir Ivic https://www.hertfordshiremercury.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/demanding-exactly-what-watford-need-4508769 Some key points: Ivić likes his teams to be really tough to score against/disciplined. At Maccabi Tel Aviv, where Slaviša Jokanović also previously worked, Ivić won the league in both seasons at the club, which Maccabi hadn't won for 4 years before his arrival. In each season, his side just lost one match and conceded only 27 goals in 72 games. In his second season, Maccabi didn't concede a goal in the first 12 league games. He is demanding. Used to needing to perform and win (could work for us in a relegation battle?) Changes formation, not strict on one, sometimes 4-2-3-1, 4-3-3 and 3-5-2. He will want to play possession based football, to build out from the back and be incisive/quick and direct in attack, while remaining defensively sturdy and tough to play against. (This resembles his time at Watford with formations and being defensively good. If I remember reading correctly he mostly played 3/5 at the back and sometimes played 4-2-3-1 and 4-4-2, also had the best defensive record in the Championship.
• A kinda balance view on his time at Watford https://www.thesackrace.com/news/20th-december-2020/next-watford-manager-odds-why-did-ivic-get-sacked-whos-the-new-favourite-and-three-names-that-would-be-successful (My bad it was the 2nd best defensive record.) Also had the joint best home form record. Watford not giving another coach enough time, looking for their 4th manager in 15 months. On paper Ivić ticked all the boxes. Young, exciting, no nonsense and a winner. Below average in most games and the football was poor and painful to watch. Player power being a problem. A lot of fans have highlighted the fact that the problem is the players, they have now not performed for the previous 4 managers (including Nigel Pearson.) (I still think his problems at Watford were down to the players and the club etc. expecting too much. Don't Watford not just want promotion this season, but the title too?) 
• A great in depth article https://louorns.wordpress.com/2020/08/15/what-to-expect-from-vladimir-ivic-at-watford/ He's good at developing youth players. Coached POAK under 20's for 3 seasons before becoming the first team head coach after a caretaker spell. Managed 70 games, W 41, D 12 and L 17, which included a cup win and 2nd in the league. Whilst at the club, seven players 23 or under played over 1000 minutes within the season. Play style was heavy possession. Emphasis on the holding midfielder and flank play, 43/114 goals came from some sort of cross. Off the ball, POAK were very aggressive in trying to win the ball back, pressing immediately once they lost the ball. However, it's very compact and there's no reckless diving in, it is conservative but aggressive if there's such a thing. Individually, POAK looked very poor technically, so it's a testament to Ivić's coaching ability that he made them so affective (also could work for us)  - 37 clean sheets in 70 games isn't a stat to brush off. At Maccabi Tel Aviv, Ivić somewhat tweaked his style of play, going from 13% of his teams passes via long ball per game, to just under 9% in his time at the club. Conceding just 17 goals in his first season and remarkably 10 in the second; the 54/91 clean sheets made Tel Aviv the best defensive team in Israeli football history. He also again introduced younger players, which especially raised the game of then 21 year old Dan Glazer who became a key man for the team in the 19/20 season. Glazer was used very much like Kalvin Phillips at Leeds. Someone who got around the pitch, but started everything offensively. At POAK, Ivić often played two #6 - at Tel Aviv, he opted for one and an #8 and #10 in a 4-1-4-1/4-3-3 variation. Glazer was often screening the back 4 and the rest of the forward players getting into attacking positions. Half way through first season he introduced playing out from the back and building that way, rather than the keeper going long into the corner. Also had his DM become more involved in the buildup. He wants creative players to break the lines and run at defences to open up spaces in wide areas. In doing so, this allows the overlapping of the full backs. Each season he has tweaked something. Whether that's to adapt to the players he has or the quality of the league. His teams are incredibly structured to win. https://twitter.com/louorns/status/1289942268359536641?s=21 A thread from set pieces to the minor details of triangle passes in wide areas. In 3 seasons he has coached, his teams have scored 282 goals - only 48 of them have come from his #9 (again could work with our striker situation?) 115 goals have come from wide players. His sides tend to score lots of goals and concede very little. A young ambitions coach with something to prove is much more beneficial than someone like Chris Hughton who's on the way down and hasn't adapted since 2017. There's obviously flaws in Ivić's management, like sitting back when he should go for it more, but after 2 league losses in 2 years, you can't argue with the formula. I made the comparison to Chris Wilder's Sheffield United, but the more I watched the more I saw it similar to Klopp's title winning Liverpool. It's not beautiful football, it's controlled and affective football.
• His view on our match together this season https://www.thestar.co.uk/sport/football/sheffield-wednesday/watfords-vladimir-ivic-what-was-waste-time-after-sheffield-wednesday-draw-2977476
• Watford's 20 league games under him https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/vladimir-ivic/leistungsdatenDetail/trainer/35944/plus/0?saison_id=&verein_id=1010&liga=&wettbewerb_id=GB2&trainer_id= W 9, D 7, L4, GF 23, GA, 15, Pts 34, PPM 1.70

I feel confident in him after doing all my research on him. Also having a brief look at Jokanović clubs, he had a similar record/was unknown before joining Watford too. People want attacking/ultra attacking football, but the only person I know realistic available would be Paco Jaméz. Would the people wanting this still be happy if we were shipping goals and probably losing. I too would like beautiful attacking football, but being currently realistic in our situation someone like Ivić would be ideal I think, hopefully anyway.                                                                                                                                                                                

Thanks for that bit of research, I'd feel a bit better about him coming now after reading that.

[DIPPS_S.W.F.C]

Vlad's OWLS .....

Uou'll all be saying it soon...UTO

[nethertonowl]

2 hours ago, Jamie said:

Just been reported by Alan Nixon who majority of time is correct that Ivic is not keen on a return to English football just yet. 

We know DC is very slow at sorting these things out. I do think he would prefer a foreign coach, but this seems to be taking too long. Wouldn't surprise me if  D Moore doesnt come back into the frame, now Donny have the cup out of the way.   

[Jamie]

15 minutes ago, nethertonowl said:

We know DC is very slow at sorting these things out. I do think he would prefer a foreign coach, but this seems to be taking too long. Wouldn't surprise me if  D Moore doesnt come back into the frame, now Donny have the cup out of the way.   

Think your right pal, I’d be happy with Moore tbh mate 

[Jamie]

@JOHNHARKESstill confident mate ?

[Jim]

7 hours ago, Jamie said:

@JOHNHARKESstill confident mate ?

 

 

[Athelwulf]

Ivic is supposed to have turned us down already, hasn't he?

[Jamie]

Can’t wait for the announcement today thanks for sharing your reliable information with us @JOHNHARKESvery much appreciated.

[JOHNHARKES]

7 minutes ago, Jamie said:

Can’t wait for the announcement today thanks for sharing your reliable information with us @JOHNHARKESvery much appreciated.

Ok!

[Jamie]

19 minutes ago, JOHNHARKES said:

Ok!

Has this so called source actually got anything correct ?

[JOHNHARKES]

3 hours ago, Jamie said:

Has this so called source actually got anything correct ?

Only fact he got an interview and linked in any capacity and offered/considered job. When no one else even mentioned him? got told on 6th Jan. local journos picked up on 15th. I really dont give a shhyyte what you think tbh.

[Jamie]

2 minutes ago, JOHNHARKES said:

Only fact he got an interview and linked in any capacity and offered/considered job. When no one else even mentioned him? got told on 6th Jan. local journos picked up on 15th. I really dont give a shhyyte what you think tbh.

So you think this is still likely to happen ? Yet all local journos have said he’s turned us down ? 

[wellbeaten-the-owl]

What time's press conference? 

[JOHNHARKES]

If it happens it happens?? Passing on my information been given. That's as much as I know.

[SallyCinnamon]

The source called Ivic before any of the National or Serbian media outlet picked it up. 
 

I imagine he was considered but turned us down. 
 

No harm if it doesn’t happen, I believe there was some truth behind it but it appears Ivic turned us down after being offered it. 

Edited January 25, 2021 by SallyCinnamon