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9 minutes ago, Essix Blue said:

Exactly. Lewis has no history of such tactics - unlike many champions that have gone before him. 
 

As has been said - RB are gonna look like sore losers here, and personally I do like Horner and the team and Max - but they need to tread carefully with what they say. 

But Max has and  fairly recently

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13 minutes ago, Essix Blue said:

Exactly. Lewis has no history of such tactics - unlike many champions that have gone before him. 
 

As has been said - RB are gonna look like sore losers here, and personally I do like Horner and the team and Max - but they need to tread carefully with what they say. 


Horner is perfectly happy for max to just send it up the inside and just classes that as “full max”

He even says himself had Hamilton not conceded there then they would have both ended up in the barriers, but now it’s happened to his driver he’s calling for race bans.

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Two great drivers going for a corner 50/50 the difference here is Lewis being the greatest driver of all time as brains ,

if he had been in max position with that many points in front he would have lifted as any points is better than 0 ,

it was a race Hamilton needed to win and he was never going to back off , always had a lot of respect for spice boy I think he needs to step back because RB are doing themselves no favours…….

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On 28/06/2021 at 15:24, darra said:

Maybe it's partly because Verstappen has started driving like he's in F1 and not Mario Kart?

Posted this a few weeks ago. Maybe Max forgot about driving like an F1 driver for a minute or two?

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33 minutes ago, darra said:

Posted this a few weeks ago. Maybe Max forgot about driving like an F1 driver for a minute or two?

Max was all over the spot start of that race. It was like he'd never been in a race before, looked panicked

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Anybody else think that Horners first words to Verstappen were WTF do you think.you we're doing Max?

Edited by darra
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9 hours ago, Roy Of The Roasters said:

 

I'm happy to go on record as saying that Lewis was more at fault than Max. But probably only in the ratio 60 : 40.

 

The thing is that we as viewers have the luxury of time and detailed information to consider these things. We get to see multiple replays. We get to see more replays of the incident from different angles. We get the TV commentators analysis of the incident. We get frame by frame views of the collision while the commentators describe exactly what happened. Basically, we have plenty of time to review, absorb and understand what happened. For Lewis, though, this all happened in a matter of seconds while he and Max were literally wheel to wheel racing, and he was hardly in a position to crunch the numbers.

 

Personally, I think the stewards decision was a good one and the penalty (the second lightest available to them) was appropriate, whatever RB claim to the contrary.


^^^
As a Lewis fan, this is totally my point of view too. Full agreement from me.

 

8 hours ago, darra said:

The thing to remember is that the stewards have lots more information at hand to make their decisions. I still think it was a racing incident. That's why as I said earlier there should be ex drivers on the stewards panel. It's ok looking at streams of data and videos but they would know what they would do and how they'd react in such situations holding the steering wheel.


There is always a former driver on the stewards panel.

 

4 hours ago, darra said:

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/sport/motorsports/completely-unintentional-is-ricciardos-verdict/ar-AAMm7kB?ocid=sf

 

Another opinion

 

They say that your peers are the best judge and in this case that is the other drivers. Other than connections of Red Bull there does not seem to have been any condemnation from the other drivers that Hamilton was totally at fault. 
     The other drivers were in fact seen congratulating him on his win including Charles Leclerc who Hamilton had just pipped for the race win. 
     They must all have seen replays of the incident during the lengthy suspension of the race to have formed an opinion.
     So far this season in the previous races one of the two has been much more aggressive than the other one and that one has not been Lewis Hamilton.
      The condemnation by Red Bull of the racist abuse aimed at Lewis Hamilton has something of a hollow ring taken in the context of the language used by Christian Horner in particular after the incident. I know feelings were running high but that is the time to carefully consider the words. 
      To say that Hamilton is a "desperate" & "dirty driver" has no basis in fact given that Hamilton has driven 1000's of Qualifying & 1000's of Race Laps in his racing career and there have been no suggestions whatsoever that he would intentionally take another driver out of the race in the way that a couple of former World Champions would and did not hesitate to do.

 

I think it is ridiculous to suggest *current* drivers have a say in the potential disciplinary actions of a *current* race.

 

Theres so much politics and bias behind the scenes that would just make it a farce.

 

Personally I think the current set up that ensures at least one former driver on the stewards panel for every race is pretty sufficient — and for the most part the stewards get it right.

 

It frustrates me when people say, for instance, there were “too many penalties” applied in the previous race — there were a number of penalties simply because there were a number of infractions. Similarly, the stewards on this occasion ruled based on their interpretation of the rules, with the input of a former driver on the panel. Fair play for me.

 

 

A few years ago people were complaining about the stewards and FIA being “Ferrari International Assistance” or Ferrari-biased. They weren’t. They were just applying the rules on a case-by-case basis based on the interpretations of the time. They were often completely correct when you drill into it.

 

 

Now, if the argument is that the rules need changing for various reasons (which would be fair), then the teams have the power to try to instigate those changes. 
 

BUT, complaining on this occasion was for emotional reactions and mindset reasons and not based on interpreting the rules in my opinion. Some teams want to try and influence the ‘ref’, so to speak… and likewise some teams want to get into the heads of close rivals if possible and influence the points going forwards if they can. It makes F1 fun and interesting… and we’re still talking and debating about it now, so something must be workingabout it. 😉

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7 minutes ago, DeeJayOne said:

I’ve totally forgotten who the driver steward was this last weekend. I want to say Pirlo, but I’m almost certain it wasn’t Pirlo…. A similar name perhaps?


Quoting myself here… 😬

 

It was Pirro:

 

C2AC5863-F922-4C8B-8FEF-421C0B0D703E.jpeg

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47 minutes ago, DeeJayOne said:


Quoting myself here… 😬

 

It was Pirro:

 

C2AC5863-F922-4C8B-8FEF-421C0B0D703E.jpeg

Predominately at fault. 
 

So not totally. Yeh is go with the 60/40 mentioned earlier 

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51 minutes ago, Essix Blue said:

Predominately at fault. 
 

So not totally. Yeh is go with the 60/40 mentioned earlier 

Don’t recognise any of those names as former F1 drivers. Had to look them up and it appears Pirro was one briefly. I would have thought the steward panel would have had a higher % of former drivers than that.

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11 minutes ago, 83owl said:

Don’t recognise any of those names as former F1 drivers. Had to look them up and it appears Pirro was one briefly. I would have thought the steward panel would have had a higher % of former drivers than that.

Pirro was an experienced GP driver in the late 80s/early 90s.

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There's also a limited pool of ex-drivers who are willing to spend a GP weekend cooped up in a small room assessing multitudes of footage and telemetry data instead of enjoying the GP weekend or doing other things following retirement...

 

...BUT, they find an ex-driver for EVERY race.

 

 

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4 hours ago, DeeJayOne said:


^^^
As a Lewis fan, this is totally my point of view too. Full agreement from me.

 


There is always a former driver on the stewards panel.

 

I think it is ridiculous to suggest *current* drivers have a say in the potential disciplinary actions of a *current* race.

 

Theres so much politics and bias behind the scenes that would just make it a farce.

 

Personally I think the current set up that ensures at least one former driver on the stewards panel for every race is pretty sufficient — and for the most part the stewards get it right.

 

It frustrates me when people say, for instance, there were “too many penalties” applied in the previous race — there were a number of penalties simply because there were a number of infractions. Similarly, the stewards on this occasion ruled based on their interpretation of the rules, with the input of a former driver on the panel. Fair play for me.

 

 

A few years ago people were complaining about the stewards and FIA being “Ferrari International Assistance” or Ferrari-biased. They weren’t. They were just applying the rules on a case-by-case basis based on the interpretations of the time. They were often completely correct when you drill into it.

 

 

Now, if the argument is that the rules need changing for various reasons (which would be fair), then the teams have the power to try to instigate those changes. 
 

BUT, complaining on this occasion was for emotional reactions and mindset reasons and not based on interpreting the rules in my opinion. Some teams want to try and influence the ‘ref’, so to speak… and likewise some teams want to get into the heads of close rivals if possible and influence the points going forwards if they can. It makes F1 fun and interesting… and we’re still talking and debating about it now, so something must be workingabout it. 😉

 

F1 is bonkers organisationally. 

You got F1 itself but even a spring body then the fia. Then you have teams by some have vetos, etc.. 

Quite messy r0eally

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5 minutes ago, darklord said:

 

F1 is bonkers organisationally. 

You got F1 itself but even a spring body then the fia. Then you have teams by some have vetos, etc.. 

Quite messy r0eally

 

Can't argue with that to be honest.

 

I was more talking about "in race" decisions, but you're right... overall there is a mess there. 

 

 

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