helmut_rooster Posted December 31, 2020 Share Posted December 31, 2020 1 hour ago, Grandad said: Im sorry - I know you went to a great deal of effort to post that but I didnt read it. The answer to the opening question is - its not feasible at all. I did the same, what bàsrards we are Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pazowl55 Posted December 31, 2020 Share Posted December 31, 2020 Imagine if you brought 10000 shares and someone who has brought one gets the hump because you got a free season ticket. This will happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trevdi9 Posted December 31, 2020 Share Posted December 31, 2020 iv'e got a spare fiver , Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichSheffWeds Posted December 31, 2020 Share Posted December 31, 2020 The idea Chansiri will take £35m including the ground is just fantasy. Fans will never ever put in the £££ needed to buy and then run the club. Football finance has moved on to off the scale numbers. The only realistic short term way out of where we are is : Stay up. Avoid further FFP penalties (a real threat) Then find a very rich, ambitious buyer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sefton owl Posted December 31, 2020 Share Posted December 31, 2020 1 hour ago, daveyboy66 said: Burnley have just been bought for £200M...yes that's Burnley. No chance for us unless we make it to the Prem. That's why I want DC to succeed because if he succeeds then WE succeed. Then we might get finance from a new owner who wants to take us higher. I know they’re in the premier league, but £200 million for Burnley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Owlinmad Posted December 31, 2020 Share Posted December 31, 2020 Just found £15 in me wallet. May as well have it before the missus does. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onge Posted December 31, 2020 Share Posted December 31, 2020 1 hour ago, Animis said: Absolutely - I'm not aware of a fan-ownership model in the top two divisions Don't think there are any... Wycombe were until Feb this year (in League One, obviously). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest LondonOwl313 Posted December 31, 2020 Share Posted December 31, 2020 58 minutes ago, Holmowl said: What model would you envisage to run it? That would be a big issue to say the least. Obviously the bigger investors would want a much bigger say, and like any business, ultimately one person would make the key decisions. If the CEO/Board appointed Manager A, you’d still get the smaller investors saying we should have appointed Manager B, C or D. But in principle, it’s a lovely idea and much better than a wealthy owner. We’d have to run elections I guess.. have fan representation on the board and appoint a football person to run the day to day operations. Basically all of the things that people are asking for on here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigash_swfc Posted December 31, 2020 Share Posted December 31, 2020 If I won 125m on the Euro millions. I still wouldn't buy a matchday ticket. Reason being, I wouldn't be in this country to give a hoot about football. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest LondonOwl313 Posted December 31, 2020 Share Posted December 31, 2020 52 minutes ago, Bing Cosby said: Fair play @LondonOwl313 for the OP, I think you are aware of the flaws in your plan, but it's certainly an interesting discussion. For me it has 3 main issues... 1. It's based on the premise of Chansiri taking 30mil and doing one... Everything we know about him says he'd never consider this and would possibly even turn down 3 times as much... He's that convinced he has to chase his losses... Also what about the ground? Didn't he sell that to himself for 60mil? 2. While I like the idea that it's a 3 year push and if we don't make it we all take a 50% hit, it wouldn't be that straight forward... The outlay required on a squad to give us the best chance of promotion, would not only eat into the allowable loses fund, but it would also leave us with a wage bill which would need to be sustained by loses if we didn't win promotion, would it be easy to find a buyer then? Also what would the strategy be on player sales in the 3 year period? A sustainable club at this level needs to sell players, but would we be caught in the "but we need to keep our best players" dilemma we found ourselves in post Wembley? Would we not be in danger of repeating the sh*t or bust DC strategy? For me football clubs need to be run with a long term strategic plan. 3. Is the one you and many others have pointed out... Finding the number of people willing/able to contribute. Rather than finding one rich maniac you'd have to find thousands of regular ones. Agree with all of this.. I can’t see DC selling. The fair market price at best is about what he paid for us given we’re now in a worse state than when he came. I suspect if he was willing to sell for that then we’d have no problem getting another wealthy benefactor to come in and have a go anyway Would be nice to call his bluff and ask him to sell to us. He’s got no idea what most of our fans financial situation is because he basically just says ‘oh you have 200,000 fans, I’m sure they could pull a grand out from the back of the sofa and buy me out if they wanted to’. It’s the same with the ticket prices.. to him £40 is nothing and he doesn’t get why anyone complains about it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Animis Posted December 31, 2020 Share Posted December 31, 2020 All DC needs to do is employ some senior management team from a football business background. He apparently won't though - relying on a guy who's failed on paper but DC still considers as a trusted consultant and more. In the absence of anything resembling giving up control, he's not going to sell the club - it would expose his failings in public. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest mkowl Posted December 31, 2020 Share Posted December 31, 2020 1 hour ago, Grandad said: Im sorry - I know you went to a great deal of effort to post that but I didnt read it. The answer to the opening question is - its not feasible at all. It wasn't feasible a decade ago when its feasibility was more feasible than the feasibility today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichSheffWeds Posted December 31, 2020 Share Posted December 31, 2020 1 minute ago, mkowl said: It wasn't feasible a decade ago when its feasibility was more feasible than the feasibility today. exactly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Andy W Posted December 31, 2020 Share Posted December 31, 2020 1 hour ago, Manwë said: Thoughts. Anything is possible if you put your mind to it. We are 25000 committed fans with probably more than 100000 less committed fans. I've said before that I could put in £10k to purchase shares, but I'm not going to do it to later hand over the club to the next smooth talking suit that comes along, so that'd be a precondition for me personally. Anyway, £75m is entirely Doable when you have tens of thousands of people joining together. I would happily put in £10000 or more if I thought it was a serious possibility than fans ould buy the club Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest mkowl Posted December 31, 2020 Share Posted December 31, 2020 Serious answer - I was part of the team that looked at this a decade ago. Back then we were looking at probably 5m to do a deal with the Coop. The issue was doing the cash flow as best I could was the 5m of liabilities to deal with, plus probably 2-3m per season. That was 2010. Indeed those liabilities were nearer 8m There was never a realistic chance of getting 20000 to part with £100 and a few more wealthy characters perhaps. But I had a real issue going to fellow fans to stump up cash that would disappear into a black 🕳 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wizzard1867 Posted December 31, 2020 Share Posted December 31, 2020 1 hour ago, gurujuan said: Possibly, but I’m sure the backlash against the Pulis appointment focussed his mind. He said he had similar reservations himself, and he may, or may not have, but I don’t believe he would have acted so promptly, had it not been for mounting criticism from the fans Maybe, but it's more likely they could not work together, as Pulis hinted at several weeks ago. In the respect I have some sympathy for DC. It's all looking rather like the situation at Leicester when Mandaric appointed Megson. Really disappointing for us fans when we're in a dire situation to start with. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest mkowl Posted December 31, 2020 Share Posted December 31, 2020 1 minute ago, Andy W said: I would happily put in £10000 or more if I thought it was a serious possibility than fans ould buy the club The chance was a decade ago and I think if you had 1000 fans able to do that - but as far as I was concerned you had to give a say in the running - so board appointees out of the investor fans, voting rights etc But it needed a proper CEO to run it, not the fans themselves Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chansiri is king Posted December 31, 2020 Share Posted December 31, 2020 2 hours ago, LondonOwl313 said: After hearing Mr Chansiri say that the fans should buy him out if they're not happy with how he's running the club, I was trying to come up with some numbers to see whether this is even a possibility. Firstly, we'd have to make him an offer for the club. Being realistic, its worth about what he paid for it (i.e. £35m). And we'd also need him to give us the stadium back included within that. Getting him to agree to selling for that and writing off his losses is probably the biggest sticking point in the whole plan. But say if he did agree to that, how much more would we need. Obviously we'd need more than that because the club loses money so with no wealthy benefactor we'd need capital to absorb the losses. Unfortunately thats just the business model outside the premier league with the pot of gold on promotion the incentive for anyone to invest. So lets assume that we'd need to fund the maximum allowable loss under FFP of £13m a season, and do this for 3 years to 1. give us the opportunity to build towards promotion and 2. because FFP is a rolling 3 year thing anyway. So already we're talking a total of £35m + £13m x 3 = £74m to do this (lets call it £75m to make the maths easier). The easiest way would be to divide that in to equal shares, but being realistic if you start asking most fans for £1,000 or even £500 they're probably going to say no because personal finances at the moment just dictate that its too much money. So lets say 1 share would be £250, which I think you could convince some casuals to part with as an investment. So £75m divided by £250 is 300,000 shares. The plan would be that we either achieve promotion and sell the club for a profit in excess of the £75m at the end of the 3 years, money which would be returned to the investors... or we fail to go up and we sell the club on to someone else to have a go for £35m, and investors lose about half of their investment in the process (£125 loss). Either way, the long term strategy wouldn't be to be fan owned because the ongoing losses make it unfeasible. Obviously the prospect of finding 300,000 individuals to do this is a non starter. But would it be possible to get 50,000 or even 100,000 individuals to do it, with wealthier fans buying more than one share to get us to the required 300,000. I think thats much more realistic. For a start I think most season ticket holders could be convinced... and then many more people would if theres a carrot available of a bigger pay off if promotion is achieved with their personal losses capped at £125. I don't think this is as far fetched as you think, would just take some organising and probably some wealthy fans committing 5 and 6 figure sums to get the numbers up. Thoughts? fizz me our deluded fans running the club !!! Perish the thought 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wizzard1867 Posted December 31, 2020 Share Posted December 31, 2020 1 hour ago, CircleSeven said: Setting up a new club with all of the required infrastructure is as hard if not harder than buying a club. The terrifying thing is we are discussing fan buyouts and setting up another club because the current situation is so bloody awful! What a shambles! I wouldn't know where to start with either, but I would have thought a new club would have more chance of immediate and longterm success with the direction this debacle is heading. Either would require Leadership Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pod9 Posted December 31, 2020 Share Posted December 31, 2020 I’ll be honest, I would take just feeling appreciated by the club at the moment. We are the fans (or supporters according to DC) yet I have never felt as disconnected with the club as I do now. Everything the owner has done to try and “cheat” his way to the PL and avoid FFP has ripped the heart out of our club. Things like manufacturing our own shirt then ripping the fans off, the terrible food on match days, the complete lack of sponsorship/executive boxes sales as DC has set the prices too high. The club should be plastered with local businesses and sponsors but the only companies in view are shadow companies run by DC. I would rather be in League 2, but feel a closeness and community surround the club that died long ago. The reason we are now acting like customers, is because we have been treated as them. I take my kids to the club shop and it’s rammed full of overpriced cr@p. There is nothing class or substantial that I would spend my money on. I mean who wants a chuffing garden gnome or a Elev8 tracksuit for £100? DC must be naffed off, because if i had blown £200m and ended up in this mess, I’d be less than happy. But the disappointing this is that he could have done SO MUCH with the money he has pumped in. Look at Leicester (I know they get PL money) but their owners have created something special at that club. The new training ground creates a legacy what people (fans, players, sponsors, managers etc) want to be part of. Id happily let the club have my £555 ST refund money if I felt part of something. However I feel part of absolutely nothing at Wednesday. Nothing special. Nothing worthwhile. I really hope that the new supporters club may make inroads to get the club back on track, however I cannot see it happening with DC at the helm. Unfortunately for us, it’s Wednesday Til I Die, so we will have to see what the future brings. 6 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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