Next manager odds

[Incognito Owl]

4 hours ago, Owls Loyal said:

My only concern is that "working the players hard" may appeal to many supporters, I understand that.

 

But to fall out so badly with Troy Deeney is concerning.

 

Deeney is Mr Watford in the view of their fans. 

 

He has made nearly 400 appearances and scored well over 100 goals for the club.  Many at Premier League level.

I've been doing some research on Ivić and read some tweets reacting to his sacking from a article and most were supporting him against players such as Deeney ect. I've got the link plus extra in the Ivić thread if you haven't seen them. 

[The Night-Owl]

Bilic, Jokanovic, Ivic, Lager or Silva 

[Quist]

29 minutes ago, frastheowl said:

 

Talk about choosing what you want to see... Do you work for the Daily Mail?!

 

You're correct in that, he was sacked following a dreadful run of results (2 wins in 13) equally the worst in Benfica's history.

 

But, the season previous to that, he won 18 out of 19 games, achieving the best start to a managerial spell in the history of the club. He won the Portuguese Premier League and equivalent of the League Cup , two competitions they didn't win the previous season, and managed to beat the big three away from home in the season, which has only been accomplished by one other Benfica manager. He also recorded the Benfica's biggest win since the 1960's, a 10-0 victory over Nacional.

 

Bruno Lage won't be our next manager. Because he'll have his sights set on much bigger jobs than ours. But to suggest he hasn't the credentials is lunacy. 

To get a managers job you have in the last 5 years years worked consecutively as a manager for 24 months (which he has not) or worked as a manager for 36 months in last 5 years which he has not done. These were the rules printed in Guardian newspaper which can be read on line. So when you have put down copy of Beano take a look at rules for getting a work permit. He will not qualify.

A coach should be judged how his team are playing when they left not when he took over. He made a Horlicks of it.

[airborne_rat_of_s6]

Any odds on no one being interested in the job?

[Ante's Bubbly]

17 hours ago, Andrew6666 said:

This is what bothers me about bringing in one of the older managers. Are they after a last pay day? Where as younger managers are trying to make names for themselves. 

 

For me, the only reason to sack Monk was solely the three results in a row to Rotherham, Luton, and Wycombe, which I thought were an all time low. Well, that was until Pulis stepped forward and said "Hold my beer".

 

Yes Monk was not exactly ripping up the league was he, but when you look at all the restrictions and difficulties we were playing under , and most people conveniently forgot about the black cloud of a points deduction that hung over us right to the very end of the season, with other clubs threatening legal action if we were not sent down a division, it was a difficult time to get players doing what you wanted them to do. People forget that when he came in he was not even allowed to bring in his coaching staff!

 

I know football owners are getting more and more ruthless when it comes to sacking coaches/managers, but how can you logically justify sacking a manager based on three results when the availability of fit players was at an all time low? Surely you could only ever justify that, if all the injured players were Monk's fault, or the squad was strong enough to have similar quality replacements? Monk is one of only a couple of our recent coaches that insisted on players being as fit as possible before playing (the other being Carlos), which is a philosophy which most people agree with. We have played too many half fit or half injured players over the last few years, simply because other so called squad players have simply not been good enough, or were so badly injured that they could not possibly play. We have kicked off way too many games in recent years, with at least one player in the starting line up that you would bet money on not being able to finish the first half, with a couple of others that you knew would hardly be able to last the whole game. That leaves no room for tactical, or potentially game changing substitutions (unless it improves your chances of losing), because a below average team is then diluted even further.

 

During the three games you mention, we had some ridiculous bad luck with stupid penalties against us, stupid sendings off, three defenders going off injured in one game which we finished with 10 men and conceded a last minute goal losing us two points (after Tom lees had to be taken off), leaving us with up to 8 first team players and/or their replacements unavailable for games, mainly defenders, but also defensive midfielders like Shaw, Hunt and Luongo. I cannot think of too many clubs that would be able to carry on playing the way they want to and get results with that number of players missing, no matter how good their managers are and especially not in the championship which is ultra-competitive and especially not with the very weak "squad" players we have, who would rarely be in our first 16, never mind the starting eleven. Pulis moaned about injuries, when most of the players were back fit and he had at least three fit centre halves to choose from!  Monk won 12 points from our first eleven games, with new players coming in, none of which in many people's opinion, were as good as the people they replaced, who were let go by DC in the summer and not replaced by DC, (not Monk's fault, DC's). Monk and DC argued last season and again in the summer, because Monk wanted certain types of players (I am guessing younger fit players and strikers mainly, because he said so publicly, but I could be wrong) and he wanted to keep at least two of the players who DC refused to keep on and then took no further part last season (when the games started again). So despite better quality players going out and not all being replaced (DC's fault), Not signing a striker (DC's fault), the new players coming in and still trying to fit in, because they were signed late (DC's fault), the injury crisis (mainly bad luck, but all of the new players were simply unfit and (with the occasional possible exception of Izzy Brown) not good enough - (again DC's fault), the pressure of being bottom on minus 12 points (again DC's fault), the players having a nightmare with an incredible run of red cards (individual players and over eager refs for a couple of them) and despite DC and Monk falling out, Monk still managed to get an average points per game of 1.09 which could easily be improved on when most of the first team players became available again and new players settled in. The points per game improvement was shown before the squad was back to full strength with a win against Bournemouth, who were unbeaten at the time (and have only lost to Brentford and Preston since then) and a draw against Millwall (who had one of the best defences in Europe at the time according to the match commentators, and still have one of the six best defences in the division despite their recent run of form). DC then sacked Monk and brought Pulis in, whose only redeeming feature was the fact that earlier on in his career his teams conceded very few goals, yet under Monk we had 5 clean sheets in 11 (and were a minute away from 6 when down to 10 men through injuries), yet Pulis managed only 2 clean sheets in 10, with performances that were only ever close to being matched in terms of us being outplayed in those three games under Monk when so many players were not available.  To top it all, DC told us that Pulis was brought in as a safer pair of hands when his 0.7 points per game for us would only get us just over 32 points in a 46 match a season, guaranteeing relegation, whereas Monk's 1.09 points per game would have got us 50 points, which would normally guarantee staying up!

 

I was not a big fan of Monk's, but despite all the restrictions imposed by the EFL, the load of players that left without being adequately replaced and the reluctance of Chansiri to support his beleaguered coach, I, like many others have always maintained that he was one of the better choices of the available coaches being mentioned, when he was first appointed and was a better choice for us than Pulis, both of which have been fully justified in terms of footballing achievements for us and having the right temperament to deal with Chansiri's ever changing coach/manager job description! (OK quite a few went for the Cowleys over Monk, but the job at Huddersfield proved too big for them so I believe the same fate would have met them at Hillsborough).

 

Our idiotic chairman actually said that Monk believed our squad should be capable of getting into the play-offs, before he was given the job, but then said he needed more players because the ones he had available to play were not good enough! This sounds perfectly reasonable from DC, until you remember that when Monk arrived FF, Fletcher, Winall, Murphy, Hutchinson, Lee, Fox amongst others, were still at the club. On paper they appeared to be players that could help get a team into the top half of the table, but some withdrew their services and the players that Monk was left with needed a much larger injection of talent in January than the on loan services of an unmotivated, unfit Conor Wickham, who only managed to score one goal when the cross put in actually landed on his head! 

 

Ah well, hopefully if Chansiri and his son both study for their coaching badges and his daughter and wife study up on the financial and legal side of players contacts they can all run the club properly along with their long standing player guru Paixo, who has helped DC put a mighty majority of his £350M through the club on players that have all come and gone, apart from Rhodes, JVA and Reach, without affecting our situation at all. We have more players in our squad that were already here or brought through the academy than players that DC has bought, with most signings coming in on free transfers, or for £500K and under (Paterson, Windass, Iorfa and Pelupessy costing around £1M altogether). So despite selling Joao for £8M last season and the ground for £60M, DC has since only shelled out peanuts for a small handful of sub-standard players, all under the guidance of his long lasting player buying guru, yet the player buying guru remains, while 5 managers have gone, with each one of them citing problems of not getting the players they wanted at some point or other, yet now DC has added an equally, if not even more dodgier player sourcing guru (if the stories are true) in Erik Alonso!

 

I wish somebody else would do the maths on the players bought by DC, who are still at the club and tell us how much they cost because I reckon we have somewhere around £20M worth of the club's money ther, so where did the other £330M go? Even accounting for buying the club, the pitch and the new scoreboard, along with all the extra ticket and shirt money from the fans, tv money, transfer fees such as the £8M for Joao etc it is hard to show believable maths that would account for all of the £330M. If DC is including the £60M he bought the ground for, then over £30M of that money must still be in the available transfer pot, so how come coaching teams could not be brought in, players remain unsigned, payers have been underpaid and fans still not refunded monies owed? There is certainly something fishy going on and I wonder if the money that had not been paid for the ground, back when we were fined has actually been paid yet. Does anybody know? If not could we be fined as a club, or could there be a possibility of Chansiri being charged with fraud?

[frastheowl]

10 minutes ago, Quist said:

To get a managers job you have in the last 5 years years worked consecutively as a manager for 24 months (which he has not) or worked as a manager for 36 months in last 5 years which he has not done. These were the rules printed in Guardian newspaper which can be read on line. So when you have put down copy of Beano take a look at rules for getting a work permit. He will not qualify.

A coach should be judged how his team are playing when they left not when he took over. He made a Horlicks of it.

 

That's an utterly ridiculous comment. By that rationale, Brian Clough was a dismal manager...he made a right "Horlicks" of the job he did at Forest! 

 

My issue was your focus on the "worst record" whilst completing dismissing the incredible work he did before that, not the work permit.

 

However, I fear that a lot of the managers we are looking at would fail to qualify for a work permit, now we've left the EU. It really does narrow the field somewhat, when looking further afield for potential managers.

[theowlsman]

Brian McDermott said he was washing his hair, but this is no time to give up.

[Ante's Bubbly]

23 hours ago, room0035 said:

Unfortunately DC wants a yes man, any manager who has not towed the line, that no matter how little investment there has been in the team, it is fighting for promotion each year.

 

Monk got the boot shortly after questioning DC and Pulis most likely gave him a few home truths which as we know from DC and his press rants he does not like. Anyone telling him that he does not have a clue what he is doing. Pulis got the public rant, the fans are not just customers, because how dare they ask for their money back.

 

We are 6 days into the transfer window, 0 players in, 0 players out and managerless.

 

Is anyone surprised this is the same way as the team has been run for 5 years.

 

For me if we are going to play I want the games entertaining and at least a team that looks like it is trying to win games, as apposed to the Monk/Pulis school of though of not trying to lose (and doing it very badly)

 

We need an out of work manager (so nothing to pay in compo) with something about him. For me I would choose Cook, his last 3 jobs he has been there at least 2 season (3 transfer windows), he achieved promotion at each and in over 400 games at those team has a win percentage of nearly 45% (181/407) for me at any level that a pretty good record. He has managed in our league but has good scouting ability to pick up players from lower leagues cheaper and improve them and often sell them on for decent money.

 

 

I agree with your choice of Cook. On top of his footballing credentials he comes across as having a good level headed personality. Smart, but not too cocky, even when everything is going well. He actually said during his tenure at Wigan that early on in his job there, when he was trying to change the quality of the players from League one players to possible championship players, if the club had gone along with fan power, before he had settled the new players in, he would have been sacked. Luckily the club realised that the team and squad were in a state of transition and that every team going through transition needed time to settle. Their patience paid off and Wigan got promoted, if it was not for the points deduction they would have remained in the Championship and Peter Cook would probably now have a group of other championship clubs queuing up to take him on.

 

If any of the reported candidates can cope with the pressure of having Chansiri as a boss I reckon Paul Cook could possibly pull it off, but I would much rather Chansiri get totally financially behind one of his coaches/managers, rather than his dodgy player pimp mates. They are have done absolutely nothing for the club except bleed money and allegedly  young talent, out of it.

[Guest hirstysfags]

Sebastian Flumiere rumoured now and has dropped in @ 33/1

[Ante's Bubbly]

On 06/01/2021 at 15:52, mcmigo said:

Given we ruined ourselves under FFP last time we did the above and signed good quality, and we now have even worse levels of income, we will not be signing quality at all.  We can barely pay the squad we have today.

 

 

We could have bought Ivan Toney for £2-4M a couple of years ago, half the fee wasted on Rhodes and probably on less than half the wages. THAT is the kind of player that us fans have identified as good quality and good quality for money too. There are so many people that watch footballers play all the time and know a good footballer from a bad one. All we have done under Chansiri is blow large amounts of money on players that everybody knows used to be good players and they therefore demand high wages and cost a high transfer fee, even though they are past their peaks and closer to the ends of their careers. The problem is that these players cost too much for us because we do not have parachute payments to blow on silly wages and we do not have silly money to waste on transfer fees. We do not scout players across the full spectrum of of football, yet there are loads of players just from the South Yorkshire region that have moved on to play for other clubs. They have not slipped through our fingers, because we were never in the market for them. Even players like Luongo, Dunkley, Borner, Kachunga are a waste of money in my opinion, because they are not fit for long enough every season to be depended on and I bet their wages are above average for the division. Their net worth to the club is less than that of an average player in this division, to another club especially players that are always, or nearly always available. In my opinion by far the best three players at Hillsborough for what they give to the club since they have been here are Tom Lees, Barry Bannan and Adam Reach, because they contribute towards goals, towards the solid shape of the team, to winning points and they very, very rarely get less than average points for their performances in the team and if they do it is because they are playing with an injury. They are all above average players, but the majority of our other players at the moment are inconsistently good, or bad, mediocre, or below average and that is criminal when you look at the money we have just thrown away on whims, silly wages and silly signings. We need players to come along and improve the team, or improve the squad, I think every manager as said that, but we have consistently reduced the quality of the squad every season since Chansir and his dodgy chums took control of signing players. In my opinion, DC has invested only a small amount of money in improving our squad and wasted the vast majority of it.

[RUMBELOWS91]

Chris Whitty has just entered the betting. 

 

"Next slide (to L1) please"

 

[Owls Loyal]

What a great summary from Ante's Bubbly.  Why on earth do we just not get Paul Cook in and stopp this trawl around Europe for some odd ball who might have once managed a progfessional football club:

 

 

"I agree with your choice of Cook. On top of his footballing credentials he comes across as having a good level headed personality. Smart, but not too cocky, even when everything is going well. He actually said during his tenure at Wigan that early on in his job there, when he was trying to change the quality of the players from League one players to possible championship players, if the club had gone along with fan power, before he had settled the new players in, he would have been sacked. Luckily the club realised that the team and squad were in a state of transition and that every team going through transition needed time to settle. Their patience paid off and Wigan got promoted, if it was not for the points deduction they would have remained in the Championship and Peter Cook would probably now have a group of other championship clubs queuing up to take him on.

[sherlyegg]

16 minutes ago, Owls Loyal said:

Peter Cook would probably now have a group of other championship clubs queuing up to take him on.

 

[striker]

I just hope this recruitment process and likely procrastination leads to an appointment Chansiri can work with. That's the main impedement to success of managers. 

 

Would be nice to aim for some stability.

[prowl]

3 hours ago, daveyboy66 said:

He's a Tory with a red tie on

Define a Tory.

 

If you mean he's upper middle class or aristocracy, that's wrong. He's from common stock but done exceptionally well because he's exceptionally intelligent and very hard working. Starmer is everything that the previous lLabour leader wasn't.

 

I've never voted Tory but I couldn't vote for Corbyn. Starmer might be the best thing to happen to Labour in a generation. Still early days of course but he looks the real deal so far.

 

 

The Mail on Sunday ran a story claiming the family home in Oxted, Surrey had an Aga cooker – often found in well-to-do homes – though when the Mail’s Michael Crick visited the house, he found a modest, pebble-dashed semi.

Starmer told the Guardian in December: “My dad was a toolmaker and my mum was a nurse. And not everybody knows that and that’s because I don’t say it very often … the middle class background just doesn’t wash.”

[prowl]

25 minutes ago, striker said:

I just hope this recruitment process and likely procrastination leads to an appointment Chansiri can work with. That's the main impedement to success of managers. 

 

Would be nice to aim for some stability.

You missed the main criteria, he needs to find a way to get the players on side so they don't throw him under a bus like they have every other manager we employed.

[metaframe]

9 minutes ago, prowl said:

Define a Tory.

 

If you mean he's upper middle class or aristocracy, that's wrong. He's from common stock but done exceptionally well because he's exceptionally intelligent and very hard working. Starmer is everything that the previous lLabour leader wasn't.

 

I've never voted Tory but I couldn't vote for Corbyn. Starmer might be the best thing to happen to Labour in a generation. Still early days of course but he looks the real deal so far.

 

 

The Mail on Sunday ran a story claiming the family home in Oxted, Surrey had an Aga cooker – often found in well-to-do homes – though when the Mail’s Michael Crick visited the house, he found a modest, pebble-dashed semi.

Starmer told the Guardian in December: “My dad was a toolmaker and my mum was a nurse. And not everybody knows that and that’s because I don’t say it very often … the middle class background just doesn’t wash.”

Nowt like a working class human rights QC and KBE. Would never vote for him, but a damn sight better than Corbyn.

[Jim]

It’s been a strange week in the market. Both Barton and McCarthy started the week in work, end the week

out of work and see themselves as frontrunners in a betting market for a job, I very much doubt that either have a chance of getting?

 

I expected a run on Ivic today given his appearance at 4-1 and the thread on here but that hasn’t happened yet? I still think the dark horse is Weiler, seems to have a solid pedigree and we could well strike gold, should we appoint him?

[graz gp]

Just keep Barton away from our club. That would be disastrous for us. Uto

[Quist]

The announcement Holdsworth is going to take charge on Saturday indicates no appointment is likely before then. 

 

Will be worth seeing if anybody in stands watching game. 

 

I know they were working on it last Saturday and Sunday going through applications and making enquiries so at least it is comprehensive and Dc has not been pushed off with first gem our advisors have served up. Its possible plans he had may have been scuppered by failure to get work permit for coach. 

 

Not certain if any interviews been held at this point.