The Shaw tackle and red card

[ShaunO1]

2 minutes ago, No Uniform said:

It was terrible tackle, 

 

Bit harsh on the lad Shaw. It was reckless and somewhat naive but there was no malice involved. 

[Sultan_Pepper]

1 hour ago, OwlBiSeeinThi said:

Compare that to Pickford's tackle on Van dyke with VAR and not even a booking. 

Can see why it was a red but could have as easily been a yellow and a stern talking to.

Yeah, if the ref gives yellow yesterday nobody would have mentioned it again and a decent game of football could have gone ahead.

 

They went studs up into the top of Bannan's foot yesterday and clearly did some damage but because he played on we didn't even get a free kick. Paterson got clattered but stayed on his feet. I'm just sick of playing against teams that give it out but then all roll around on the floor after every challenge.

 

Ref could easily have booked a couple of theirs for simulation last night.

 

 

[Striggy]

Judging from the wildly differing views on here (and accounting for some bias both ways) it is clear to me that the incident is not as cut and dried either way and that there is room for interpretation.  It is one of those where a player has given the ball away and wants to win it back as quickly as possible, their player's touch gave the opportunity but Shaw was a little over enthusiastic.  For me if the Ref decides to give a Red there is no complaint and no room for appeal, however if after his little thinking time he made allowances and only issued a yellow, then there should have been no complaints either.  One man has got to decide and there was no clear and obvious error, on another day with another Ref may have just got the booking.  Pulis needs to sort our heads out though, cant play every other match with 10.

Edited December 3, 2020 by Striggy

[@owlstalk]

16 minutes ago, Striggy said:

Judging from the wildly differing views on here (and accounting for some bias both ways) it is clear to me that the incident is not as cut and dried either way and that there is room for interpretation.
 

 

Not at all

 

It was a definite red but some of our fans just deny any and everything we do wrong, and post how everyone is out to get us just to look like bigger/better fans to other fans on the internet 

 

It’s the equivalent of wearing Stone Island and bragging about how much coke you took and how many blokes you smacked on the way to the match

 

It was a definite red

I know that.
The referee knew that

Shaw knew that

Pulis admitted and said that

THEY know that

So basically we all know that but a few are trying to act all super fan and deny it in public 

[parajack]

12 hours ago, Pacific said:

not a red

Going in with studs up and not clearly winning the ball first in todays game is to invite a red card,especially if an opponent goes down...lad is 19 & will hopefully learn from this..

[Striggy]

3 minutes ago, @owlstalk said:

 

Not at all

 

It was a definite red but some of our fans just deny any and everything we do wrong, and post how everyone is out to get us just to look like bigger/better fans to other fans on the internet 

 

It’s the equivalent of wearing Stone Island and bragging about how much coke you took and how many blokes you smacked on the way to the match

 

It was a definite red

I know that.
The referee knew that

Shaw knew that

Pulis admitted and said that

THEY know that

So basically we all know that but a few are trying to act all super fan and deny it in public 

 

As I said no complaints with the Red, but I can understand why some think/hope that it could have been different.  Also think it is down to us not to give the Ref the decision to make. 5 Sendings off in 9 games is bonkers!

[@owlstalk]

1 minute ago, Striggy said:

 

As I said no complaints with the Red, but I can understand why some think/hope that it could have been different.  Also think it is down to us not to give the Ref the decision to make. 5 Sendings off in 9 games is bonkers!

 

It's utter madness

 

Can't remember the last time it was as bad to be honest

[matthefish2002]

To me it was a yellow after seeing it a few times on replay.
But I am still of football standards from 20 years ago sometimes.
In modern football you would be lucky not to get sent off for that tackle.

[@owlstalk]

2 minutes ago, matthefish2002 said:

But I am still of football standards from 20 years ago sometimes.
In modern football you would be lucky not to get sent off for that tackle.

 

 

Therefore it's a clear red

[Owl In Black]

32 minutes ago, Willow Owl said:

Got to disagree mate, At no point does he lunge in at the player.  On the first still his leg is pointing at the ball and his eyes are fixed on the ball. The second still he is no higher than the Reading player and his foot is on the opposite side to the Reading players. At no point does his tackling leg come into contact with the player. It’s his momentum and the Reading players reactions that got him sent off. 
It’s impossible to tackle without lifting  your foot, especially while running. 
Yellow at worst, fine tackle in my book. But I’m from a generation when it was a contact sport. Tackles like that used to get the fans on their feet and made them get behind the team. Taking away the art of tackling is another nail in the coffin for me. 
Players have a lot to answer for with their reactions and trying to get the opposition player sent off.

I know it’s the “ modern game “ but it’s garbage and spoils the game.The number of players getting sent off is ridiculous and it ruins the 11v11 as a contest.

In my opinion there are more injuries than there ever has been, so cannot see why it better these days. 
Just an old dinosaur having a rant. 

It's why it is a beautiful game. The game is very different now. Fitness and strength is significantly higher than 'back in't day' and players rightly have to take more care. 

We must have a different idea on what a lunge is

Here is a picture of someone "lunging":

VS Shaw. 

If shaws front foot was planted to the ground he would be in an almost perfect lunge. 

Then if I consider the actual definition of a lunge in the English language:

a sudden forward thrust of the body, typically with an arm outstretched to attack someone or seize something

 

I have to come to the conclusion that it was a lunge. For me the force used in the challenge was excessive. 

 

I think the issue we have here, and it's an issue across all levels of football and I don't really K ow where it comes from is that there is a myth that so long as you make some kind of contact with the ball then the challenge is fine and not a foul or mitigates further sanction. 

In fact there is no mention of 'getting/winning the ball' in the whole of law 12 (fouls and misconduct) . 

A referee has to decide if in his opinion an offence is careless, reckless or uses excessive force. Each has its own definition and criteria. Careless is just a foul. Reckless is a caution. And excessive force is a red card. 

(personal gripe when someone says a foul is reckless and is a red is technically not correct as per above ) 

[Sultan_Pepper]

Just now, @owlstalk said:

It was a definite red but some of our fans just deny any and everything we do wrong, and post how everyone is out to get us just to look like bigger/better fans to other fans on the internet 

 

Don't deny the other ones this season were reds but if an opponent made the challenge that Shaw made last night I wouldn't expect them to be sent off for it.

 

He shouldn't have done it and I can see why the ref gave it but I thought it was strong but not dangerous. He's low to the floor, contacts the ball and not the player, his foot is never higher than the ball. Their player made an absolute meal of being contacted by a trailing leg.

 

 

[@owlstalk]

Not sure why people are still trying to argue this one

 

Everyone in football knows you can't tackle like that

The player sent off knows you can't tackle like that
The referee sent him off for tackling like that

Puls said it was reckless and he shouldn't tackle like that or you get sent off

 

But Pete off High Green thinks he knows something they don't

Aye

ALREYT THEN

[daleblue]

12 hours ago, big_al1985 said:

We've had 5 reds in what, 9 matches.... does everyone genuinely think every one was wrong!? Really?

 

We keep making crap, silly tackles in areas where we don't need to. 

 

I seriously wonder what people think at times 

I think Lees gave away 2 free kicks just outside our box, silly, both of them. 

[areNOTwhatTHEYseem]

8 minutes ago, @owlstalk said:

Not sure why people are still trying to argue this one

 

Everyone in football knows you can't tackle like that

The player sent off knows you can't tackle like that
The referee sent him off for tackling like that

Puls said it was reckless and he shouldn't tackle like that or you get sent off

 

But Pete off High Green thinks he knows something they don't

Aye

ALREYT THEN

 

I'm surprised that Keith Hackett thinks it should have been a yellow.

[@owlstalk]

1 minute ago, areNOTwhatTHEYseem said:

 

I'm surprised that Keith Hackett thinks it should have been a yellow.

 

I'll take the opinions of people still actually in the game over Keith Hackett's

[N0rtherner]

Yeah, I've had the night to sleep on this... actually, I didn't think about it since last night... but it was definitive red card tackle under current football rules, maybe not a decade ago. But studs first, not in control and while he grazes the ball and doesn't catch the Reading player, he sure clatters him following through with the rest.

 

Sorry for Shaw, but it's something to learn from, he'll continue to develop and play well for us! As long as Shaw's absence doesn't open up for Pelupessy again! xD

[Hack-Abusi]

Its a rough tackle. Very meaty. Yellow at worst and that should be if you are unlucky. Certainly not a red. Bread and butter those for some players. Crunchers. Love to see them

 

I think the reaction from the Reading player didn't help, i really doubt he was that badly injured. I've seen a lot worse where players get up without fuss ...

 

 

[Owl In Black]

32 minutes ago, @owlstalk said:

 

I'll take the opinions of people still actually in the game over Keith Hackett's

As a fellow referee I find Keith Hackett opinions and views to be very outdated and many referees agree. 

There are a few ex pros who struggle not being in the limelight anymore, he is one of them along with Mark halsey and Glenn Turner. All deliberately Controversial on a bid to remain relevant. 

[Dutch McLovin]

Not a red card at all.

 

He went in one footed. Low. Got the ball and got the man with his back leg on the follow through.

 

Unfortunately in today's game you have to get more of the ball and he didn't get enough as the images show.

 

Should have been a yellow, think it could have been a yellow with a crowd in but the scream made it sound so much worse.

 

Pity as i think Shaw adds balance to our midfield.

[@owlstalk]

Just now, Dutch McLovin said:

Not a red card at all.

 

 

Everyone in football says it is/was