Replacements in summer - who was better than those who left?

[shandypants]

2 hours ago, GLOwl said:

Nuhiu is different to Windass, no doubt, but I’m saying Windass is “better”, it’s not a comparison.

 

For Brown to be less fit than Lee will take some doing. He’d need to be out for the rest of this season and that hopefully won’t happen, fingers crossed, as we desperately need him.

I’ll concede to your point about Brown - fair enough but I can’t agree that Windass is better than Nuhiu. I like Windass and he has potential but, like most of our other forwards, he puts in too much effort in the wrong places at the wrong time, and he is not scoring. 
 

I liked Nuhiu, however, I will readily admit that he was limited and not our best forward (Fletcher is head and shoulders above him), but I think he was a lot better than people give him credit for in terms of contribution to the team. My opinion is that Nuhiu is better than all of the forwards we have now at the club. 
 

We should have brought in a target man and/or made every effort to keep Nuhiu when Fletcher left. We did neither and now we are without a centre-forward. 

[WalthamOwl]

we would be 4th from bottom even without a point deduction which is disgraceful. The squad over the last couple of years has been so poor and since monk started his big rebuild for hungry dynamic players it hasn’t improved. As I’ve said imo the players we do have are bang average at best but they should be achieving a bit more than 4th from bottom.  

[SallyCinnamon]

12 minutes ago, Swiss Toni said:

Not my job to do that. When Ollie Watkins signed for Brentford for £1.8 million from League Two we were signing players like Abdi for nearly 4 times as much. Hindsight is a wonderful thing but I’m just saying 3 years down the line Watkins has made Brentford over £30 profit whereas the players we signed at the same time drained the club of cash. 
 

Ben Godfrey is another simple example of a player signed from York City and then sold on for a £22 profit 3 years later.

 

Id rather be in the shoes of a Brentford or Norwich fan right now than ours. I know Norwich got relegated and Brentford didn’t get promoted but you remember the buzz around our place when we nearly reached the ‘supposed’ promised land?

 

Thats a completely different story though. We were recruiting very differently back then. 
 

And those gems who end up going for huge money are often the anomalies. It’s not like it happens all the time. You can easily go to League One and Two and sign someone who is just not good enough whatsoever. In our situation with -12 would you rather want experience or unproven and untested cheap League 1&2 players and gamble they can do the business to keep us up? You go experience every time! 
 

Case in point Marriott, crap according to everyone on here. £6.5m after banging them in for Peterborough in League One. And that is a player who went for millions from the league below! If he’s not good enough, surely it’s a huge gamble to sign a striker for 350k (all we can afford right now) from the same division?!

 

If it was so easy as to picking up someone from Lg 1 and 2 every club and then turning into top players, everyone in the division and the division above would be signing players from the lower leagues. 
 

Comparing us to Norwich and Brentford who are two best run clubs in the division is also not fair. We are light years away from their business models.

[SallyCinnamon]

Ipswich a couple of seasons ago appointed an unproven League One manager in Paul Hurst.

 

Signed a host of ‘young and hungry’ lower league players.

 

Were relegated with 31 points, rock bottom of the table. 
 

It rarely works. 

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018–19_Ipswich_Town_F.C._season

 

 

[gurujuan]

6 minutes ago, SallyCinnamon said:

Ipswich a couple of seasons ago appointed an unproven League One manager in Paul Hurst.

 

Signed a host of ‘young and hungry’ lower league players.

 

Were relegated with 31 points, rock bottom of the table. 
 

It rarely works. 

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018–19_Ipswich_Town_F.C._season

 

 

Yes it’s always a gamble, and at the time, Horst was considered one of the brightest young coaches in Europe, so it’s difficult

[SallyCinnamon]

Just now, gurujuan said:

Yes it’s always a gamble, and at the time, Horst was considered one of the brightest young coaches in Europe, so it’s difficult

It’s a huge gamble in the best of times. But it’s a ridiculous kamikaze gamble when you have a -12 point deduction.

 

Asking players who have never played at this level before to turn around a 12 point deduction when they might not even be good enough. 
 

The players who can make the step up usually cost money. Like Ivan Toney. 

[CrosbyKitchens]

2 hours ago, LondonOwl313 said:

He cost us a point.. would have been a different game with 11 vs 11, who knows how it would have played out. We might have even scored

Whoah, don’t get ahead of yourself. Let’s try and have a shot on target before start talking about actual goals.

[Swiss Toni]

26 minutes ago, gurujuan said:

Interesting that you mention Godfrey, didn’t we have him on trial but turned him down?

Didn't know that. Oops if so...

[Guest]

1 hour ago, davetherivelinowl said:

I'm also expecting good things from Dunkley (eventually). But when we already have Lees, Iorfa, Borner, Van Aken and now Flint, how does he even get in the team if fit?

Good point,  I think I wouldn’t be too surprised if TP fancies Iorfa at right back

 

Van Aken is quite simply not good enough at this level, should’ve seen red again yesterday 

 

Borner played well yesterday but has looked shaky, I think a fit Dunkley gets in ahead of him , especially in a Pulis 11 

 

Flint, interesting one, I’m a huge fan but obviously he’s injured , starts for me every week if fit 

 

Dunkley has got a fight on his hands for a shirt that’s for sure, but unless everyone’s fit it’s hard to judge 

[Swiss Toni]

34 minutes ago, SallyCinnamon said:

Thats a completely different story though. We were recruiting very differently back then. 
 

And those gems who end up going for huge money are often the anomalies. It’s not like it happens all the time. You can easily go to League One and Two and sign someone who is just not good enough whatsoever. In our situation with -12 would you rather want experience or unproven and untested cheap League 1&2 players and gamble they can do the business to keep us up? You go experience every time! 
 

Case in point Marriott, crap according to everyone on here. £6.5m after banging them in for Peterborough in League One. And that is a player who went for millions from the league below! If he’s not good enough, surely it’s a huge gamble to sign a striker for 350k (all we can afford right now) from the same division?!

 

If it was so easy as to picking up someone from Lg 1 and 2 every club and then turning into top players, everyone in the division and the division above would be signing players from the lower leagues. 
 

Comparing us to Norwich and Brentford who are two best run clubs in the division is also not fair. We are light years away from their business models.

Owlstalk is all a matter of different opinion. That’s what makes it good to have different views. It’s like management, no 2 managers are the same.

[Swiss Toni]

3 minutes ago, Royal_D said:

Good point,  I think I wouldn’t be too surprised if TP fancies Iorfa at right back

 

Van Aken is quite simply not good enough at this level, should’ve seen red again yesterday 

 

Borner played well yesterday but has looked shaky, I think a fit Dunkley gets in ahead of him , especially in a Pulis 11 

 

Flint, interesting one, I’m a huge fan but obviously he’s injured , starts for me every week if fit 

 

Dunkley has got a fight on his hands for a shirt that’s for sure, but unless everyone’s fit it’s hard to judge 

I agree and think Iorfa will play RB under Pulis. Then think the middle will be 2 from Lees, Dunkley or Flint (when fit). LB is a tough one to call. Maybe Borner or someone new in mind.

[Brommers]

What was the club thinking getting rid of a team of absolute world beaters.

[Mike Hunt]

Has anybody on here seen Dunkley play before?

[davetherivelinowl]

17 minutes ago, hugeowl said:

Has anybody on here seen Dunkley play before?

Yes but my opinion is based on what I saw many years ago when he played against us for Oxford. I thought he was their stand out player and therefore wasn't surprised that he went on to play at a higher level for Wigan. I've seen him for Wigan too and just remember him as being competent at this level. (Defenders don't get a chance to impress in every game - depends what's demanded of them)

[Watto]

7 hours ago, fudge27 said:

Reyt bunch of fannies on here. Win a game and we're immaculate, lose a game and its flap central. 

 

Christ 

 You're the fanny 

We've been diabolical in 90% of games this season 

[GLOwl]

1 hour ago, shandypants said:

I’ll concede to your point about Brown - fair enough but I can’t agree that Windass is better than Nuhiu. I like Windass and he has potential but, like most of our other forwards, he puts in too much effort in the wrong places at the wrong time, and he is not scoring. 
 

I liked Nuhiu, however, I will readily admit that he was limited and not our best forward (Fletcher is head and shoulders above him), but I think he was a lot better than people give him credit for in terms of contribution to the team. My opinion is that Nuhiu is better than all of the forwards we have now at the club. 
 

We should have brought in a target man and/or made every effort to keep Nuhiu when Fletcher left. We did neither and now we are without a centre-forward. 

I also liked Nuhiu, when he was at his very best. And to be at his very best he needed to care and put a big shift in. At his very best he was a real handful and a goal threat to any team.

Sadly, I remember many times when he was overweight, lazy and disinterested. He was very good in the lead up to his last contract extension but very poor too many times before then.

I’d still like to see him coming off the bench for 20 minutes though in the current circumstances.

[fudge27]

3 minutes ago, Watto said:

 You're the fanny 

We've been diabolical in 90% of games this season 

Must make you the ******** then lad

[Guest Therealrealist]

1 hour ago, gurujuan said:

Yes it’s always a gamble, and at the time, Horst was considered one of the brightest young coaches in Europe, so it’s difficult

In Europe?? That’s pushing it a bit

[shandypants]

16 minutes ago, GLOwl said:

I also liked Nuhiu, when he was at his very best. And to be at his very best he needed to care and put a big shift in. At his very best he was a real handful and a goal threat to any team.

Sadly, I remember many times when he was overweight, lazy and disinterested. He was very good in the lead up to his last contract extension but very poor too many times before then.

I’d still like to see him coming off the bench for 20 minutes though in the current circumstances.

Again, I don't disagree with any of that, and, for me, that is the sad indictment.  Nuhiu is better than all of our current forwards.  

[gurujuan]

6 minutes ago, Therealrealist said:

In Europe?? That’s pushing it a bit

I think that was because he had at the time, more coaching qualifications than anyone else, though obviously no experience Can remember there was talk about getting him into the England set up What is he doing now, I don’t even think he’s in football Just shows eh, it’s not about badges