Question on strikers in general

[@owlstalk]

Not specifically Sheffield Wednesday but definitely applies to us too

So here's my question

Why don't strikers in football score anymore?

 

Again I don't want to just look at SWFC but football in general

I don't wanna get all 'back in MY day', and I could be completely wrong (in which case please let me know) but it feels like most (not all - most) strikers in football just don't seem to score as many goals as strikers have over previous years?

Some stats would be good if anyone's got some - e.g. average number of goals scored by strikers in the championship over the last 20/30/40 years

Again I don't have a memory at all, but in my mind a striker for any/all clubs used to score between 15 and 20 goals a season? Does that sound about right?

Am I barking up the wrong tree entirely here or did strikers in football used to score way more goals overall and on average than they score in modern football?



 

[slinger208b]

Isn't it as simple as formations and possession football?

 

Football used to be 4-4-2 wingers crossing or defence splitting through balls for the strikers to finish.

 

Now it's midfield possession, recycling, waiting for better opportunites to score rather than pass-pass-cross, law of averages, 10 chances equals 1 goal...

Edited November 8, 2020 by slinger208b
typo

[Swiss Toni]

It’s because out and out wingers are a thing of the past. Balls just don’t enter the box as much - only generally

on set plays.

[cowl]

8 minutes ago, slinger208b said:

Isn't it as simple as formations and possession football?

 

Football used to be 4-4-2 wingers crossing or defence splitting through balls for the strikers to finish.

 

Now it's midfield possession, recycling, waiting for better opportunites to score rather than pass-pass-cross, law of averages, 10 chances equals 1 goal...

 

This wouldn't explain why strikers don't score as many as they used to though (if indeed this is true, which I don't even think is the case overall).

[@owlstalk]

15 minutes ago, slinger208b said:

Isn't it as simple as formations and possession football?

 

Football used to be 4-4-2 wingers crossing or defence splitting through balls for the strikers to finish.

 

Now it's midfield possession, recycling, waiting for better opportunites to score rather than pass-pass-cross, law of averages, 10 chances equals 1 goal...

 

 

 

If that was the case then surely all it would take is one manager to switch to 4-4-2 with wingers and defence splitting through balls and the strikers  can score 15 to 20 goals each again and win the league

[gurujuan]

3 hours ago, @owlstalk said:

Not specifically Sheffield Wednesday but definitely applies to us too

So here's my question

Why don't strikers in football score anymore?

 

Again I don't want to just look at SWFC but football in general

I don't wanna get all 'back in MY day', and I could be completely wrong (in which case please let me know) but it feels like most (not all - most) strikers in football just don't seem to score as many goals as strikers have over previous years?

Some stats would be good if anyone's got some - e.g. average number of goals scored by strikers in the championship over the last 20/30/40 years

Again I don't have a memory at all, but in my mind a striker for any/all clubs used to score between 15 and 20 goals a season? Does that sound about right?

Am I barking up the wrong tree entirely here or did strikers in football used to score way more goals overall and on average than they score in modern football?



 

Interesting mate. My take is, that the role of the striker has changed nowadays. Statistically, more goals are scored today, as witnessed clearly by some of the crazy scores in the Premier League this season. It’s become more of a team game, which was always the plan anyway surely? A good striker these days, will help the side function as a unit, whereas one who hasn’t adapted to the modern game will contribute little to that team dynamic. Our own Jordan Rhodes is an example. There is no doubt that he was at one time a prolific goal scorer, but you could argue, not always to the benefit of the team. He has struggled to adapt his game to the new demands required from strikers in the game today. I always look for more in a striker than just a previous goals record

[Lincs Owl]

3 hours ago, @owlstalk said:

Not specifically Sheffield Wednesday but definitely applies to us too

So here's my question

Why don't strikers in football score anymore?

 

Again I don't want to just look at SWFC but football in general

I don't wanna get all 'back in MY day', and I could be completely wrong (in which case please let me know) but it feels like most (not all - most) strikers in football just don't seem to score as many goals as strikers have over previous years?

Some stats would be good if anyone's got some - e.g. average number of goals scored by strikers in the championship over the last 20/30/40 years

Again I don't have a memory at all, but in my mind a striker for any/all clubs used to score between 15 and 20 goals a season? Does that sound about right?

Am I barking up the wrong tree entirely here or did strikers in football used to score way more goals overall and on average than they score in modern football?



 

 

I'm guessing there's been more goals scored, in the Prem at least, this season than any other season since it started in 1992.  Villa 7-2, Spurs 6-1 at Man Utd etc etc.   

You'd have to define a striker for your question to make sense. Some forwards lead the line like a battering ram (Fletcher. Chapman, Bronco Layne etc).   Others act as playmakers(Izzie Brown, Nuhiu etc).  Playing upfront and making goals is just as important as scoring them.

I can't see anyone scoring 46 goals in 30 league matches like Dooley did.  Or 60 in a season like Dixie Dean, or 59 like George Can sell.  Or even the 40 or so a season like Brian Clough did at borough. 

Modern defences are too well coached and drilled.

But you'll still get blokes like Billy Sharp, Ivan Toney, Chris Wood who can bag a few. 

I don't see that anything has changed much. Messi is a goalscoring machine but if he signed for us, his goals would dry up.  We don't set our stall out to attack, as Jordan Rhodes will tell you. 

[slinger208b]

7 minutes ago, @owlstalk said:

 

 

 

If that was the case then surely all it would take is one manager to switch to 4-4-2 with wingers and defence splitting through balls and the strikers  can score 15 to 20 goals each again and win the league

Yes it probably would if you have the players to do so and to be honest I sometimes think maybe we could have a go, but aren’t teams more dynamic these days and managers more experimental?

 

Wasn’t it all about 442 v 442 until recent years though and it was down to the team with the better players?..

[CalmJimmers]

4 minutes ago, @owlstalk said:

 

 

 

If that was the case then surely all it would take is one manager to switch to 4-4-2 with wingers and defence splitting through balls and the strikers  can score 15 to 20 goals each again and win the league

 

Think formation and the decrease in popularity of the striker has a lot to do with it though. 

 

How many teams play with two up top, one to battle and be the fall guy for a prolific striker that doesn't do much else anymore? Heskey and Owen, Bergkamp and Henry, Yorke and Cole are all the architype. 

 

So many teams now sacrifice that extra forward for an extra man in midfield that helps being overrun in the middle. Play then naturally moved to wider positions. The likes of Drogba then became key because they could do everything the self due to being both skillful and physically dominating. Have that supported with a Lampard, Gerrard, Kaka, Sneijder who are difficult to mark from deep and you don't need another striker. 

 

Now the trend is the have 3 forwards who are physically incredible and skilful, who can create and score. Ronaldo, Messi, Mbappe, Neymar, Salah, Mane, Rashford, Sterling etc. I guess its why teams have gone 3/5 at the back, so they can try to pick them up. 

 

You still have the likes of Kane, Lewandowski, Lukaku, but they are expected to put effort in for the team, and can all score from range as well. 

 

With us, we don't have the service to the strikers. Harris against Brentford puts in a ball with quality in the box and we score, how often do we do that? It's why Reach should be on the left wing because he's on of only 1 or 2 on our team that can put any sort of quality into the box. 

[Bigblueowl]

All teams defend from the front, where as Mr lineker for example stood on the halfway line and waited for the attack to commence! He never drifted out to the wings, or came short, he got in the box and stayed there! Who does that these days? No one I can think of. 

[@owlstalk]

Just now, Bigblueowl said:

All teams defend from the front, where as Mr lineker for example stood on the halfway line and waited for the attack to commence! He never drifted out to the wings, or came short, he got in the box and stayed there! Who does that these days? No one I can think of. 

 

 

So if a striker stood at the edge of their box and stayed there he would score loads of goals?

[Wizzard1867]

20 goals a season was the bench mark of a decent striker, back in my day...

 

Mark Bright was an example of that 20 goal a season striker.

 

Only problem is with that classic 442 20 goal a season striker is he's one of only two routes to goal....

 

And he might need 40 to 60 chances of getting those 20 goals, and when he's injured, your form dips.

 

The modern alternative seems to be three forwards behind a false nine. Steven Fletcher was a great example of this, often being asked to play up front on his own. The wingers are inverted so they can shoot when they cut inside. Reach for example playing on the right, to cut inside and shoot on his left foot. In that system the top teams tend to have technical players with lots of pace. Son and Salah are great examples of this type of player.

 

Monkball nullifies both options, as we don't have Son, Salah or even Fletcher anymore.

 

 

[Bigblueowl]

22 minutes ago, @owlstalk said:

 

 

So if a striker stood at the edge of their box and stayed there he would score loads of goals?

Well obvs have to be up with the flow so not to be offside but yeah... 

 

They way I look at it an out an out striker should have bags of energy in the tank to beat the defender to the ball, get in between, get in behind, get higher in the air... If he's just run his knackers off chasing the ball about for the last ten mins then he is limiting that burst of energy, that composure, that extra inch in the air and basically the final product! 

 

I think football has got too complicated tbh! Pretty simple to a simple bloke like me. 

 

Goalkeepers save shots. 

Defenders defend. 

Midfielders break up and create 

Strikers score goals. 

 

Sack 352 off 

Go 442 do the basics. 

 

Easy innit 

 

 

[0114]

There has definitely been a change.

 

It wasn’t long ago when your wingers were just expected to chip in with a few goals while their main focus was crossing, which now seems to become more of a full back attribute.
 

Now it seems, especially at the top level that a winger is judged on goals the same way a striker would be.
 

Strikers have evolved. You see less of the old fashioned bog liners. They need to be good with their feet dropping into the 10 role (Kane/Firmino) or they need to be fast and get in behind to stretch the opposition (Vardy).

[Rogers]

Strikers do score, when supported by the right formation and players. 
 

There are dozens of examples up and down the leagues. 

[Guest The Claw]

instead of trying to walk the ball in bloody shoot!!

[Derick Mills]

I'd love to see how the old 235 line up would fair in today's play

[Ellis Rimmer]

Commonly teams want strikers to hold the ball up and bring the other attackers into play now, like Firmino, Kane, Antonio, rather than solely be selfish and aim to score. Kane does it brilliantly, he is the perfect mix.

[ozzieowl]

Maybe a case of defenders are better now. 

[gurujuan]

2 hours ago, Rogers said:

Strikers do score, when supported by the right formation and players. 
 

There are dozens of examples up and down the leagues. 

Mainly down them