Chansiri “This company, we’ve owed them since before my time… Maybe it’s my fault, but I didn’t know that"

[Guest Therealrealist]

7 minutes ago, FreshOwl said:

He clearly hadn’t done his homework related to anything about running a football club.

 

Madness that we haven’t spiralled out of control already and gone under 

 

All the gear no idea 

Still time

[OWLERTON GHOST]

This isn't unusual you know .....

A certain "New Owner" of a then Premier League club actually thought that they were buying into a NFL style franchise when they purchased and didn't think relegation was part of the "norm"..

[kobayashi]

3 hours ago, Hookowl said:

 

Not saying this is the case, but could DC's comments refer to him being surprised if he suddenly had to indemnify these liabilities when he previously believed he didn't have to do anything until promotion occurred ?

They are contingent liabilities, there is nothing to indemnify as they don’t exist unless the club are promoted to the PL in which case they would, at just over £2m, be a drop in the ocean. They also expire in May 21 so the possibility that they will ever be paid are by now vanishingly thin.

[Wizzard1867]

On 05/11/2020 at 18:08, northeastowl said:

I thought we were debt free when he bought us? 

What was Harry Redknapp's dog called again, maybe that's who SWFC owe money too?

 

Comedy Gold this one. How did Mandaric build up any debt, we hardly spent anything while he was here. Maybe it was a transfer fee owed to another club, and they now own Hillsborough?!?

[Wizzard1867]

On 05/11/2020 at 18:09, @owlstalk said:

Sheffeld Star from February 2016 - Accounts show SWFC are DEBT FREE - https://www.thestar.co.uk/news/accounts-reveal-sheffield-wednesday-are-debt-free-459309

Maybe the liability was recorded in the wrong accounting period.

 

The irony...

 

[nevthelodgemoorowl]

On 05/11/2020 at 18:43, mkowl said:

What is not unusual when you buy the shares in a company is that in theory you take over all the assets and liabilities at that time. Its why the process takes so long, is very expensive legally and there will be warranties as long as your arm.

 

However debt that the former owner has put in will generally be cleared, as was presumed secured debt from 3rd parties. This was presumed done but it seems evident that there was some legacy debts from the MM era that were not cleared.

 

Due diligence should have picked this. If it didn't and the vendor had not been 100% honest then you would invoke the warranty clauses 

 

So I think it was known as a liability. That interest would be paid and presumably capital repayment is triggered by promotion or the like.

 

The lenders have got spooked with the EFL matter and presumably covid, so DC has had to give security via the stadium to ensure they don't demand repayment 

 

Well that is an hypothesis

 

So in summary who shafted us ?

[nevthelodgemoorowl]

On 05/11/2020 at 21:01, ChapSmurf said:

 

Is it petrol or diesel?

 

If it's petrol, you're okay. If it's a diesel, you will probably need something like an industrial weed burner to get the fuel ignited in the tank.

 

 

Which is exactly what Doncaster Rovers did  

[nevthelodgemoorowl]

On 05/11/2020 at 22:00, camffiti said:

 

 

Yeah, you never get to vinegar stroke  

[Wizzard1867]

6 hours ago, Hookowl said:

 

I think someone said earlier that the debt was only repayable if we were promoted to the prem.

If this is true I would presume that he is only securing the debt rather than pay a few million that he may not have to.

The thing is a contingent liability is still a liability.

 

The world invented accounting standards for a reason... To avoid this type of nonsense and the nonsense which saw us start the season on -12 points.

 

I'm gratefully reassured that DCs financial advisers, never did and still dont have a clue what they are doing.

 

[Wizzard1867]

6 hours ago, oh_weds_we_love_you said:

Didn't Mr Chansiri say the debt was "only a few million"... if that's the case, why hasn't he just paid it up? It's the equivalent of me securing my milk delivery debt against my house rather than pay the milkman the £34 I owe him.

A good idea, if you want to default on that debt and sell your house to your milkman for £34.

 

But there again in that universe your wife probably had you shot, shortly before you allegedly signed the loan agreement.

 

[fatzooma]

It all stinks and he needs to sell up and get the hell out.

from day one to yesterdays interview,  Chansiri has lied and blagged..
his every move is a complete joke

[Wizzard1867]

6 hours ago, oh_weds_we_love_you said:

 

Ahhh I see, that would make more sense. I wonder what servicing the debt is costing him.

This doesn't make sense either, why pay interest on a loan to repay a contingent liability, which perhaps only accrues on a promotion to the premier League???

[Wizzard1867]

6 hours ago, kobayashi said:

Very strange comments compared with the information in the accounts.

The May 2015 accounts disclose a number of loans to various parties being repaid and charges satisfied with only one loan for £1.2m outstanding, to be repaid in January 2016. Subsequently the May 2016 show an "other" interest payment of £77K (interest on the £1.2m) but make no mention of any continuing 3rd party debts and thereafter the  May 2017 and July 2018 accounts disclose no debt to 3rd parties and also no "other" interest has been charged to profit. So neemingly no debt disclosed and no interest paid and/or accrued. With regard to  contingent liabilities, then only those to the Co-Op and Dave Allen etc. that Mandaric agreed when he took over to be paid if the club were promoted to the PL. These have been been disclosed in every set of accounts for nearly a decade so cannot have been too big of a surprise.

My theory is it was a contingent liability. The only transaction which was a reasonable gain which could have triggered the liability was the sale of Lucas João.

 

That fits with the Doyen football finance model which we were all aware of at the start of this roller coaster journey. This would not have been a surprise to DC.

 

Doyen provide finance to leverage your own buying power in the football transfer market.

 

When the player is sold, money is then owed to Doyen who leant you the money to buy the player in the first instance.

 

*This is only a theory. I am not ITK. 

 

Still doesn't ring true with what DC said though. If my theory isn't true I'd rather DC hadnt brought it up, before persuing it with whoever ripped him off in the first place.

[Guest mkowl]

Note 11 of the 31st May 2015 accounts may shed some light on this.

 

This talks about the loans that MM took out in 2013 and 2014 that were secured against the stadium.

 

It goes on to say the legal charge was withdrawn on those loans - presumption of course you would only do this if they had been repaid. It does not say this.

 

In contrast it says a £1.6m loan was repaid BUT that a further £1.2m was taken in January 2015 repayable Jan 2016.

 

The fact these loans were always declared in accruals and deferred income was a bit of a mystery.

 

As was why the amount owed to MM's UK Football Investment LLC went from 11m to 18m from May 14 to Feb 15 and that loan was converted to shares that DC then acquired. 

 

The new charge against the stadium suggests about £6m is owed. All very confusing. Looking back though I never really got my head around the MM sale accounting wise. 

 

 

[Hougoumont]

On 05/11/2020 at 18:00, @owlstalk said:

I've said it many times that Chansiri didn't get what he thought he was buying at all.

Like when I bought my Renault Megane and thought it was ace, but now the driver window wont' wind up, the right hand speakers gone, and the aircon fan won't turn off at all

 

 

You bought a Renault Megane and thought it was ace.........Soft lad. 

[@owlstalk]

5 minutes ago, Hougoumont said:

You bought a Renault Megane and thought it was ace.........Soft lad. 

 

 

My second one too

 

I should have learned my lesson

Although all week I've been looking at getting rid and getting a new car

A Kadjar

 

 

[Hougoumont]

8 minutes ago, @owlstalk said:

 

 

My second one too

 

I should have learned my lesson

Although all week I've been looking at getting rid and getting a new car

A Kadjar

 

 

You'll be sorrrreeee.

 

[@owlstalk]

24 minutes ago, Hougoumont said:

You'll be sorrrreeee.

 

I'm not going there

I want something that's like a Ford Kuga but stuffed to the absolute brim with tech

I love tech in cars

[morganowl]

On 05/11/2020 at 18:12, sherlyegg said:

We all make mistakes, buying one of them was foookin stupid though

dangerous car is a ren

 

On 05/11/2020 at 18:13, @owlstalk said:

 

Oh it's much much worse than that

It's my second one

My first one that I had, it had terrible electrical problems

 

 

the worst part about a megane for me is driving it out of showroom ,3miles down the road it breaks down take it back under warranty and the ***** wanted to charge me a fee ,sadly not they went bust a few years ago , a megane does have a cutting edge though a nasty sharp point on edge of boot quite painful catching that on edge of face  

[oh_weds_we_love_you]

On 06/11/2020 at 23:20, Ozymandias Owl said:

This doesn't make sense either, why pay interest on a loan to repay a contingent liability, which perhaps only accrues on a promotion to the premier League???

 

Perhaps Mr Chansiri has no faith we'll reach the Premier League before he sells up, so it's not his problem?