trevdi9 Posted November 2, 2020 Share Posted November 2, 2020 5 hours ago, @owlstalk said: What I always wonder is if you're a striker or attacking midfielder or a winger and the boss walks in and says 'right lads, I want you all to defend, track back, tackle, chase your opponent down and then hopefully we can nick a cheeky goal and scrape a 1-0 win' it would just shatter every hope and dream you got into playing football for. The goals, the excitement, the shots, the dribbling and beating your man etc My heart would sink if I were them And if I was a pro I'd be off to the team that plays attacking style instead bin there done that , feeding off scraps ain't great . stifles what strikers are all about 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adifferentgame Posted November 2, 2020 Share Posted November 2, 2020 Football was, is and always will be about psychology first and foremost. Good man managers (Fergie, Busby, Clough, Paisley) understand this innately. Take the 91/92 team, stick them in todays Premier League (without all the sports science, data analysis, etc) where do you think we'd finish? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0742 Posted November 2, 2020 Share Posted November 2, 2020 2 hours ago, SallyCinnamon said: Aren’t you just agreeing with me? I think you have misunderstood what I mean by over-complicating it. Monk doesn’t need to play 5 at the back with players clearly uncomfortable in that position, he doesn’t need to play with wingers at wing backs often on the wrong flank, full backs in central defence, Reach as a striker, Windass and Kachunga in midfield. He’s picking the team as if he thinks the players are better than they actually are. Playing them out of position. Top top players can adapt, at this level, particularly our crop aren’t good enough to do that. No i don't think i am, Monk simply doesn't have the level of expertise to understand why we are not winning games, despite having 40+ crosses a game. You're saying he's over complicating it, i'm saying he doesn't grasp the complexities of the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0742 Posted November 2, 2020 Share Posted November 2, 2020 2 hours ago, @owlstalk said: The game isn't 'very complex' It's just overrun with people telling us it's 'very complex' and that they 'understand football' The ones that claim it's 'very complex' are the ones who overcomplicate it and fail The ones who know football is full of people trying to sell us scotch mist telling us it's 'very complex' succeed because they keep it as simple as it actually is Football has come on a lot since the days of boot it forrard and smash it in. If you think the game is so simple, maybe you could explain why the top teams invest so heavily in data, why they track so many aspects of players and why people like Klopp and Guardiola invest so heavily in their backroom team and technology. I wish i could watch professional sports thinking it was all so simple, but unfortunately it's partly ruined for me now! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SallyCinnamon Posted November 2, 2020 Share Posted November 2, 2020 1 minute ago, 0742 said: Football has come on a lot since the days of boot it forrard and smash it in. If you think the game is so simple, maybe you could explain why the top teams invest so heavily in data, why they track so many aspects of players and why people like Klopp and Guardiola invest so heavily in their backroom team and technology. I wish i could watch professional sports thinking it was all so simple, but unfortunately it's partly ruined for me now! I think you’re missing the point. No one is disputing the analysis and technology that goes into the game nowadays. But when you cut out all that. It is a very simple game often over-complicated by managers and pundits. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
September65 Posted November 2, 2020 Share Posted November 2, 2020 To answer the OP's question. You have to be a big personality. Don't know why but history shows it. Right back to people like Steve Burtenshaw,, Peter Eustace, through others like Irvine and Jos and the one we have now. The ones who succeeded - Charlton, Wilkinson, Atkinson. Can we get someone like that? Not sure any more. Bruce was a great shout. Given two or three years he'd have been on the list above. There must be a big guy out there who fancies a project? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0742 Posted November 2, 2020 Share Posted November 2, 2020 Just now, SallyCinnamon said: I think you’re missing the point. No one is disputing the analysis and technology that goes into the game nowadays. But when you cut out all that. It is a very simple game often over-complicated by managers and pundits. Again i don't believe i am, because once again you state it is a very simple game which is over complicated by.... experts! It's not a simple game anymore, it never will be again and you can't just cut out analysis and technology Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
horny owl Posted November 2, 2020 Share Posted November 2, 2020 The most recent managers to fail miserably by adopting defensive tactics were Jones and Carlos Both Set off playing to win and later reverted to defensive, negative rubbish Both inevitably ended in failure Play to win or don’t play at all FFS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
@owlstalk Posted November 2, 2020 Author Share Posted November 2, 2020 22 minutes ago, 0742 said: Again i don't believe i am, because once again you state it is a very simple game which is over complicated by.... experts! It's not a simple game anymore It really is The experts over complicate it because they use pause, slow mo and special effects to over analyse every tiny detail of every tiny second played The game itself is very very very simple but the business of the game is infected with people telling everyone it's complex to sound like they know what they're talking about to everyone else who's saying it's complex Everyone's conning each other The first person to break down that barrier to normality will be hailed a genius when he proclaims it as a simple game and then guess what the charlatans will all start saying? "It's a really simple game this" Only takes one person to break the mould of pretence and the whole pack of cards will come tumbling down 1 Owlstalk Shop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
@owlstalk Posted November 2, 2020 Author Share Posted November 2, 2020 28 minutes ago, September65 said: To answer the OP's question. You have to be a big personality. Don't know why but history shows it. Right back to people like Steve Burtenshaw,, Peter Eustace, through others like Irvine and Jos and the one we have now. The ones who succeeded - Charlton, Wilkinson, Atkinson. Can we get someone like that? Not sure any more. Bruce was a great shout. Given two or three years he'd have been on the list above. There must be a big guy out there who fancies a project? Bang on - perfect analysis Who are the big characters these days that are still in the game (e.g. NOT Megson who's now been retired through lack of interest from any clubs) Owlstalk Shop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
@owlstalk Posted November 2, 2020 Author Share Posted November 2, 2020 39 minutes ago, 0742 said: No i don't think i am, Monk simply doesn't have the level of expertise to understand why we are not winning games, despite having 40+ crosses a game. You're saying he's over complicating it, i'm saying he doesn't grasp the complexities of the game. Owlstalk Shop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gurujuan Posted November 2, 2020 Share Posted November 2, 2020 3 hours ago, @owlstalk said: The game isn't 'very complex' It's just overrun with people telling us it's 'very complex' and that they 'understand football' The ones that claim it's 'very complex' are the ones who overcomplicate it and fail The ones who know football is full of people trying to sell us scotch mist telling us it's 'very complex' succeed because they keep it as simple as it actually is Though it’s slightly more complex than signing a “centre forward” purely because he can rough defenders up, and has a long throw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lionel Fessi Posted November 2, 2020 Share Posted November 2, 2020 8 hours ago, @owlstalk said: It's very simple If you play attacking football and really go for it you succeed If you set out to try and nick a sneaky 1-0 win you ALWAYS fail If you start succeeding, scoring goals and winning games and then change your system to try and nick sneaky 1-0 wins you will fail Managers who stick to attacking football at Sheffield Wednesday succeed Managers who play any kind of defensive sneaky 1-0 win tactics don't just fail, but they alienate/bore the fanbase and that's never a good thing Are managers that play defensive and win 1-0 exclusively bad at Sheffield Wednesday or bad at every other club? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
@owlstalk Posted November 2, 2020 Author Share Posted November 2, 2020 4 minutes ago, gurujuan said: Though it’s slightly more complex than signing a “centre forward” purely because he can rough defenders up, and has a long throw I'd even suggest that getting your brand new striker to run out wide and take the throw ins, then throw it to the space where he himself should be is perhaps one of the classic examples of over complication 2 Owlstalk Shop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gurujuan Posted November 2, 2020 Share Posted November 2, 2020 1 minute ago, @owlstalk said: I'd even suggest that getting your brand new striker to run out wide and take the throw ins, then throw it to the space where he himself should be is perhaps on of the classic examples of over complication Good point Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest LondonOwl313 Posted November 2, 2020 Share Posted November 2, 2020 3 hours ago, adifferentgame said: Football was, is and always will be about psychology first and foremost. Good man managers (Fergie, Busby, Clough, Paisley) understand this innately. Take the 91/92 team, stick them in todays Premier League (without all the sports science, data analysis, etc) where do you think we'd finish? We’d finish bottom because modern day players are much fitter and the game is much quicker. If we tried to even things up by being dirty and crunching the opposition VAR would have a field day Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest LondonOwl313 Posted November 2, 2020 Share Posted November 2, 2020 9 hours ago, @owlstalk said: It's very simple If you play attacking football and really go for it you succeed If you set out to try and nick a sneaky 1-0 win you ALWAYS fail If you start succeeding, scoring goals and winning games and then change your system to try and nick sneaky 1-0 wins you will fail Managers who stick to attacking football at Sheffield Wednesday succeed Managers who play any kind of defensive sneaky 1-0 win tactics don't just fail, but they alienate/bore the fanbase and that's never a good thing This is because attacking football is percentage football in the long run. You can’t attack every game and sometimes it’s right to be defensive, usually when you’re not as good as the opposition and you want to make the game difficult and even it up a bit. If you rely on those sorts of tactics game after game though it suggests you’re not as good as most opponents at your level, and probabilities mean you end up losing more than you win. It’s also hard to keep concentration doing that style. Would imagine if you win some games by 2 to 4 goals you can relax a bit mentally and conserve energy for the tighter games. When every game you can never relax because you’re one up, drawing or behind that will take its toll over 46 games Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i used to be sc_owl Posted November 2, 2020 Share Posted November 2, 2020 8 hours ago, @owlstalk said: Do you think this is a result of someone/a manager saying they 'know football' or 'understand football' and then go onto totally over complicate it? This is one of my major problems with football; people making it more complicated than it needs to be. I’m convinced some managers fail because they overthink it and overcoach the team. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sherlyegg Posted November 2, 2020 Share Posted November 2, 2020 4 hours ago, adifferentgame said: Good man managers (Fergie, Busby, Clough, Paisley) understand this innately. Clough didn't man manage leeds very well.. Think the same would happen here if clough was around now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fatzooma Posted November 2, 2020 Share Posted November 2, 2020 It worked for the pigs with mediocre players and a sprinkling of ability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now