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The difference between being a success and a failure as Sheffield Wednesday manager


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1 minute ago, SallyCinnamon said:

I’ve spent a lot of time listening to Under the Cosh podcasts during lockdown. I recommend them. They can’t be great fun but also gives you an insight into how Champ/Lg 1 level players think and act.

 

The impression I get, is football is like any other workplace. Be an excellent man manager first and keep instructions clear and easy for players to understand. At this level players are limited, they don’t have the ability or football intelligence to pull off tactics and formations the top top players do. 
 

This is why Warnock has had so much success at this level. What i see from Monk is a manager who tries to over-complicate the game with players who simply aren’t good enough to pull it off. 
 

We are average with players who have a limited skill set. Play to their strengths rather than confusing them by playing em out of position or in unfamiliar roles. Harris for example looks particularly awful this season. Because he’s never played wing back before in his career! 

You might have a point.

 

Worth noting that the play off teams still played a 4-4-2 system and on a technical level they were streets ahead of most of this current side.

 

 

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4 minutes ago, SiJ said:

I mean 3-5-2 might be in vogue right now, but it's clearly not for us.

 

We dont have the quality in the wide areas to make the system work and I'd say only Iorfa and perhaps Palmer to a lesser extent are comfortable in those wide CB positions (both were/are fullbacks). 

 

What you end up with is a very disjointed 5-3-2 where the strikers are starved of service.

 

The other major issue is the lack of proper cover for Luongo. Him out of the teans leaves an absolute chasm in that central area.

 

 

The thing I think about Luongo is that we had absolutely no idea Luongo would turn into such a player this season

He'd never shown any signs of it at all

It's a complete fluke he turned into a pivotal player who we can't do without - total fluke

 

 

 


Owlstalk Shop

 

 

 

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3 minutes ago, SiJ said:

You might have a point.

 

Worth noting that the play off teams still played a 4-4-2 system and on a technical level they were streets ahead of most of this current side.

 

 


I think when resources are limited, like we are this season, you really need to strip it back to basics. The squad isn’t good enough for 5 at the back with wing backs. 
 

Particularly when we are on -12. We need points and players need to feel confident in their positions and roles. Windass ended up at right wing back on Saturday, I mean wtf? 

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5 minutes ago, @owlstalk said:

 

 

The thing I think about Luongo is that we had absolutely no idea Luongo would turn into such a player this season

He'd never shown any signs of it at all

It's a complete fluke he turned into a pivotal player who we can't do without - total fluke

 

 


But I think it was also very poor planning from the club. Luongo had injury problems last season. I wouldn’t be surprised if that is one of the main reasons QPR decided to sell. I mean ability wise he’s still good enough to start for them. So why sell him for just under 1m to a division rival? 
 

So we needed cover. FDB is one for the future and we’re asking a lot from a lad who never played a senior game before joining us. 
 

We signed Brown, it is well documented that he has struggled massively with injuries these past few seasons. So it shouldn’t come as a surprise to the club that he’s already missed 5 (I think?) games this season. 
 

If we are playing with 3 in the middle we leave ourselves very light and when the injuries happen (every club gets them and we notice it more when the way we play is dependent on the two players above) we are going to struggle massively. 
 

The club thought it was a good idea to keep Joey, despite for all his efforts just isn’t good enough. And young Alex Hunt is in a very similar situation to FDB. Very hard on the lad, he starts his development in an instant relegation fight. 
 

I don’t think we have the players to play three in the middle. But if we insist on it we should have kept Kieran Lee on or signed another midfielder for cover.

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3-5-2 could work if,

 

The right and left center back were comfortable on the ball and brought it into midfield and support the wing back.

 

The midfield push up because you have 3 defenders so you shouldn't need a defensive midfilder.

 

Play in-between the lines more.

 

Play out from the back and keep the ball on the deck.

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1 hour ago, SallyCinnamon said:


But I think it was also very poor planning from the club. Luongo had injury problems last season. I wouldn’t be surprised if that is one of the main reasons QPR decided to sell. I mean ability wise he’s still good enough to start for them. So why sell him for just under 1m to a division rival? 
 

So we needed cover. FDB is one for the future and we’re asking a lot from a lad who never played a senior game before joining us. 
 

We signed Brown, it is well documented that he has struggled massively with injuries these past few seasons. So it shouldn’t come as a surprise to the club that he’s already missed 5 (I think?) games this season. 
 

If we are playing with 3 in the middle we leave ourselves very light and when the injuries happen (every club gets them and we notice it more when the way we play is dependent on the two players above) we are going to struggle massively. 
 

The club thought it was a good idea to keep Joey, despite for all his efforts just isn’t good enough. And young Alex Hunt is in a very similar situation to FDB. Very hard on the lad, he starts his development in an instant relegation fight. 
 

I don’t think we have the players to play three in the middle. But if we insist on it we should have kept Kieran Lee on or signed another midfielder for cover.

QPR sold Loungo as his contract had less then a year left and he wasn't going to sign a new one, if I remember correctly.

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Why do people on here keep saying Monk over complicates things.

I see no evidence of that, even since the new coaches arrived.

When our defenders do manage to win the ball they only have two things in mind. 
1. Pass sideways.

2. Hoof the ball upfield in the general direction of a striker.

 

No sign of complicated tactics there at all

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Working class City. We work hard and like to have fun when not working. 

 

The team we out out should reflect this.

 

 

Battle their knackers off. And play to win. 

 

 

Too often since 1998 we've had a team who won't roll their sleeves up or who play for 1-0s or more concerned with losing. 

 

 

 

Look at the figures we've loved while here in the past few years. 

 

Reda

Coughlan

Simek

Semedo

Tudgay

MacLean

Mcgovern

 

 

None of those lot are among the most gifted, but all rolled their sleeves up and the attacking players scored goals. 

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3 hours ago, SallyCinnamon said:


Yes. This is Monk’s biggest flaw. He speaks an excellent game but he over complicates it. Luhukay was the same.

 

Modern football nowadays is always over -complicated by managers who think they can do what Pep Guardiola does with very limited players. 
 

The most successful managers at this level have a simple and clear plan. Players know their roles. When you over complicate things players look shaky, lose confidence and make mistakes.  

 

This is completely incorrect, i can tell by your post that you don't really know what goes on at top level sports and what actually goes in to it, that's not a dig by the way, but data science in all sports is here to stay and it has a huge impact on success.

 

The opposite is true, Monk doesn't understand the complexities of the game enough to make us competitive, it's why he makes so many changes, plays players out of position and cannot answer why we are getting beat. He simply doesn't know what he doesn't know. 

 

The game even at championship level has progressed to be far more advanced than what you are describing, even junior levels in league one have a performance analyst at their training sessions. The game is very complex, the one's who succeed are the one's who know how to make it look simple. Monk does not know how to do that. 

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5 minutes ago, 0742 said:

 

This is completely incorrect, i can tell by your post that you don't really know what goes on at top level sports and what actually goes in to it, that's not a dig by the way, but data science in all sports is here to stay and it has a huge impact on success.

 

The opposite is true, Monk doesn't understand the complexities of the game enough to make us competitive, it's why he makes so many changes, plays players out of position and cannot answer why we are getting beat. He simply doesn't know what he doesn't know. 

 

The game even at championship level has progressed to be far more advanced than what you are describing, even junior levels in league one have a performance analyst at their training sessions. The game is very complex, the one's who succeed are the one's who know how to make it look simple. Monk does not know how to do that. 


Aren’t you just agreeing with me?

 

I think you have misunderstood what I mean by over-complicating it. Monk doesn’t need to play 5 at the back with players clearly uncomfortable in that position, he doesn’t need to play with wingers at wing backs often on the wrong flank, full backs in central defence, Reach as a striker, Windass and Kachunga in midfield.

 

He’s picking the team as if he thinks the players are better than they actually are. Playing them out of position. Top top players can adapt, at this level, particularly our crop aren’t good enough to do that. 

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11 minutes ago, 0742 said:

 

This is completely incorrect, i can tell by your post that you don't really know what goes on at top level sports and what actually goes in to it, that's not a dig by the way, but data science in all sports is here to stay and it has a huge impact on success.

 

The opposite is true, Monk doesn't understand the complexities of the game enough to make us competitive, it's why he makes so many changes, plays players out of position and cannot answer why we are getting beat. He simply doesn't know what he doesn't know. 

 

The game even at championship level has progressed to be far more advanced than what you are describing, even junior levels in league one have a performance analyst at their training sessions. The game is very complex, the one's who succeed are the one's who know how to make it look simple. Monk does not know how to do that. 

 

 

The game isn't 'very complex'


It's just overrun with people telling us it's 'very complex' and that they 'understand football'


The ones that claim it's 'very complex' are the ones who overcomplicate it and fail


The ones who know football is full of people trying to sell us scotch mist telling us it's 'very complex' succeed because they keep it as simple as it actually is

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Owlstalk Shop

 

 

 

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3 minutes ago, @owlstalk said:

 

 

The game isn't 'very complex'


It's just overrun with people telling us it's 'very complex' and that they 'understand football'


The ones that claim it's 'very complex' are the ones who overcomplicate it and fail


The ones who know football is full of people trying to sell us scotch mist telling us it's 'very complex' succeed because they keep it as simple as it actually is

It comes from bloody FIFA15 whateverthebllx....THey all think they are Pep Gargonzola.....

"ohhhh...I#m playing Mahrez in the hole behind a roaming numbr whateverthefook....My lad had Wednesday win the Champions league wiv NUHIU at centre half!!!!....

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Just now, asteener1867 said:

It comes from bloody FIFA15 whateverthebllx....THey all think they are Pep Gargonzola.....

"ohhhh...I#m playing Mahrez in the hole behind a roaming numbr whateverthefook....My lad had Wednesday win the Champions league wiv NUHIU at centre half!!!!....

Tell him to try Oddjob there and see how he gets on?

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17 minutes ago, @owlstalk said:

 

 

The game isn't 'very complex'


It's just overrun with people telling us it's 'very complex' and that they 'understand football'


The ones that claim it's 'very complex' are the ones who overcomplicate it and fail


The ones who know football is full of people trying to sell us scotch mist telling us it's 'very complex' succeed because they keep it as simple as it actually is

 

As a famous ex manager once said " football is a simple game over complicated by idiots" 

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