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The difference between being a success and a failure as Sheffield Wednesday manager


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Any manager that’s ever been to Hillsborough should know this. 

 

Attack, work hard, have a go and the crowd will get behind you. Even if we’re not winning. 

 

So many managers these days trying to keep it tight and knick a goal from somewhere. Seriously what’s the point.

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Wave after wave of attacks towards the Kop as the opposition start to tire in the second half. That’s the way to get the fans on your side.
 

BUT  you need the sort of hard running never say die players we just haven’t got to be able to do it.

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6 minutes ago, S72 Owl said:

Any manager that’s ever been to Hillsborough should know this. 

 

Attack, work hard, have a go and the crowd will get behind you. Even if we’re not winning. 

 

So many managers these days trying to keep it tight and knick a goal from somewhere. Seriously what’s the point.

 

 

What I always wonder is if you're a striker or attacking midfielder or a winger and the boss walks in and says 'right lads, I want you all to defend, track back, tackle, chase your opponent down and then hopefully we can nick a cheeky goal and scrape a 1-0 win' it would just shatter every hope and dream you got into playing football for.

The goals, the excitement, the shots, the dribbling and beating your man etc

 

My heart would sink if I were them

And if I was a pro I'd be off to the team that plays attacking style instead

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Waving a scarf in the air, wearing fashionable jewellery or a smart coat is a recipe for success, having a tash, folding your arms or a mardy face is a recipe for disaster :ghoulguy:

 

And being nicknamed Big helps too Monkmanface

 

 

Edited by The Night-Owl
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Under Wilkinson even if we were behind at half time we knew the second half kicking towards the kop would give us a great chance of winning. Dave Jones' mentality changed in the Championship as did Carlos' in the second season and it cost us in the semi when Fletcher scored and he decided to try and hang on when there was only us going forward and pressing for the second goal to make it safe. Infuriating.

I didn't mind Megson's pragmatic approach when we were winning but when it starts to go wrong you are always encouraging the opposition as they are always in the game at one nil and if they score first you're in trouble. We never recruit the kind of players with a siege mentality that are suited to shutting up shop anyway. We've seen enough evidence of late goals over the last year to know we just can't do it.

The last few games have reminded me a bit of when Eustace was in charge and one game saw Mel Sterland playing up top on his own trying to feed off scraps with David Hirst sat on the bench twiddling his thumbs. Unfortunately this time we only have Jordan Rhodes sat on the bench with thumbs up.

 

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16 minutes ago, @owlstalk said:


It's very simple


If you play attacking football and really go for it you succeed


If you set out to try and nick a sneaky 1-0 win you ALWAYS fail

 

If you start succeeding, scoring goals and winning games and then change your system to try and nick sneaky 1-0 wins you will fail


Managers who stick to attacking football at Sheffield Wednesday succeed

Managers who play any kind of defensive sneaky 1-0 win tactics don't just fail, but they alienate/bore the fanbase and that's never a good thing

Well said attacking good POSITIVE football over negative defensive football any day of the week. I can’t see why you would want to set a team up to play boring negative football. It’s putting them in the completely wrong mindset, never mind anything else.

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23 minutes ago, @owlstalk said:


It's very simple


If you play attacking football and really go for it you succeed


If you set out to try and nick a sneaky 1-0 win you ALWAYS fail

 

If you start succeeding, scoring goals and winning games and then change your system to try and nick sneaky 1-0 wins you will fail


Managers who stick to attacking football at Sheffield Wednesday succeed

Managers who play any kind of defensive sneaky 1-0 win tactics don't just fail, but they alienate/bore the fanbase and that's never a good thing

 

We arnt good enough to try and defend a 1-0 lead. We need at least five. 

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At the moment, I would be grateful to see a team who can do the very basics right.

 

But yes, play ultra defensive negative football and you're onto a loser imo. If results are ok, then fans will give you the benefit of the doubt, but once the results go wrong, they will turn pretty quickly.

 

It's one thing to lose; it's even worse to be bored sh*tless whilst doing so.

 

Monk has this weird obsession with *controlling* the game and yet fails to realise there's little point in doing that if you don't create chances and score goals.

Edited by SiJ
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Just now, SiJ said:

At the moment, I would be grateful to see a team who can do the very basics right.

 

But yes, play ultra defensive negative football and you're onto a loser imo. If results are ok, then fans will give you the benefit of the doubt, but once the results go wrong, they will turn pretty quickly.

 

It's one thing to lose; it's to be bored sh*tless whilst doing so.

 

Monk has this weird obsession with *controlling* the game and yet fails to realise there's little point doing that if you don't create chances and score goals.



Do you think this is a result of someone/a manager saying they 'know football' or 'understand football' and then go onto totally over complicate it?

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44 minutes ago, @owlstalk said:


It's very simple


If you play attacking football and really go for it you succeed


If you set out to try and nick a sneaky 1-0 win you ALWAYS fail

 

If you start succeeding, scoring goals and winning games and then change your system to try and nick sneaky 1-0 wins you will fail


Managers who stick to attacking football at Sheffield Wednesday succeed

Managers who play any kind of defensive sneaky 1-0 win tactics don't just fail, but they alienate/bore the fanbase and that's never a good thing

+ Players with PACE.

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1 minute ago, @owlstalk said:



Do you think this is a result of someone/a manager saying they 'know football' or 'understand football' and then go onto totally over complicate it?

Quite possibly.

 

I mean, he has been here 12 months (with extended break periods too) and I still have no idea what we are meant to be as a team, outside of us being very dull and incapable of scoring.

 

We are not even good defensively. The amount of bad goals I've seen us ship under Monk which a pub team would be embarrassed by says it all.

 

If ever there was a case for back to basics and playing 442, this is it.

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2 minutes ago, @owlstalk said:



Do you think this is a result of someone/a manager saying they 'know football' or 'understand football' and then go onto totally over complicate it?


Yes. This is Monk’s biggest flaw. He speaks an excellent game but he over complicates it. Luhukay was the same.

 

Modern football nowadays is always over -complicated by managers who think they can do what Pep Guardiola does with very limited players. 
 

The most successful managers at this level have a simple and clear plan. Players know their roles. When you over complicate things players look shaky, lose confidence and make mistakes.  

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Just now, SiJ said:

Quite possibly.

 

I mean, he has been here 12 months (with extended break periods too) and I still have no idea what we are meant to be as a team, outside of us being very dull and incapable of scoring.

 

We are not even good defensively. The amount of bad goals I've seen us ship under Monk which a pub team would be embarrassed by says it all.

 

If ever there was a case for back to basics and playing 442, this is it.


Agreed


Goalie - you save the shots

Centre backs - you kick or head the ball away if it comes near

Right / Left backs - you get the ball and pass it forward to the wingers


Centre midfielders - you tackle and get the ball then pass it to the wingers


Wingers - you get the ball and cross the ball in hard and fast at head height to the strikers

Strikers - you score a goal

 

I'd start with that

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I mean 3-5-2 might be in vogue right now, but it's clearly not for us.

 

We dont have the quality in the wide areas to make the system work and I'd say only Iorfa and perhaps Palmer to a lesser extent are comfortable in those wide CB positions (both were/are fullbacks). 

 

What you end up with is a very disjointed 5-3-2 where the strikers are starved of service.

 

The other major issue is the lack of proper cover for Luongo. Him out of the teans leaves an absolute chasm in that central area.

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Let’s be honest Monk hasn’t got a clue what he’s doing or what he needs to do to get the best from these players. He wont admit we can’t play this formation he is obsessed with because he is to stubborn and it will end up costing him his job. 

Edited by WalthamOwl
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I’ve spent a lot of time listening to Under the Cosh podcasts during lockdown. I recommend them. They can’t be great fun but also gives you an insight into how Champ/Lg 1 level players think and act.

 

The impression I get, is football is like any other workplace. Be an excellent man manager first and keep instructions clear and easy for players to understand. At this level players are limited, they don’t have the ability or football intelligence to pull off tactics and formations the top top players do. 
 

This is why Warnock has had so much success at this level. What i see from Monk is a manager who tries to over-complicate the game with players who simply aren’t good enough to pull it off. 
 

We are average with players who have a limited skill set. Play to their strengths rather than confusing them by playing em out of position or in unfamiliar roles. Harris for example looks particularly awful this season. Because he’s never played wing back before in his career! 

Edited by SallyCinnamon
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