Carlos Carvalhal was right

[@owlstalk]

1 minute ago, SallyCinnamon said:

Carlos also has a manager of the month award in the Prem.

Yeah but has Paul Cook?

[Guest Therealrealist]

Carlos tearing Europe up wi little old braga..not sure he would be rushing back here for a 3rd division campaign

[The Night-Owl]

If we had had Bruce here instead of Carlos, with that squad back then, he'd have got us up and kept us up. Carlos was schooled by Bruce at Wembley. It was never the same afterwards. Bruce was here at the wrong time and he couldn't wait to get out. The writings been on the wall ever since Wembley. It's just got worse ever since on and off the pitch.

 

We need another proven manager like Bruce. The football we played under Carlos in his first season was a joy to watch at times, a bit more nous and we'd have gotten over the line.

 

Feels like we'll never get back to the top flight. Going down to the third tier in the current climate will set us back years. Sad that many of our younger supporters will never have seen us in the top flight and many of us that did probably will never see us back up there ever again. Depressing times and it's utterly depressing being a Wednesday fan, apart from a few good years in the 80s and 90s during my lifetime, it's mostly been mediocre. 

[SallyCinnamon]

3 minutes ago, @owlstalk said:

Yeah but has Paul Cook?

We don’t need to worry about that next season in League One. Cook has experience of getting teams out of that division. So he’s the ideal candidate.

[gizzit]

Never look back at happier times...

Try to concentrate on all the sh@t that lays ahead. .. Rudyard kipling (cake maker)

[Carbone]

2 hours ago, Animis said:

 

CC had some very decent; but ageing ex-PL players in his first year + BB from PL Villa, FF from a newly promoted Watford and Hooper on loan. We'd also brought in Joao and Matiais. He had practically a new team save for the central defenders, Hutch and Westwood, all far superior to the Gray team that finished mid-table on 60 points the season before. So yes, my expectation was 6-10th and considered the finish on 74 points and 6th was at the higher end of my expectations. You talk like it was an amazing result.

 

The season after was an attritional campaign of gathering points at the expense of general entertainment, but 4th seemed like a price to pay until the play offs which he fluffed because his players were shot by the end. The injuries weren't just bad luck and his risk averse approach that he'd adopted most of the season back fired. His third season was a right off.

Mid table finish doesn’t sound like 6th to me.. I stand by what I said, nobody expected it 

[Athelwulf]

1 hour ago, gurujuan said:

I’m not so sure. Were Carlos in charge of the squad last Christmas, I’m pretty sure we’d have maintained our progress. We certainly wouldn’t have fallen away in such dramatic fashion. The “relative plop” we have on the pitch now, is largely down to recent signings, and Monk’s desire to play players out of position. 

 

Fair points, but it's also about a lack of finance to pay the likes of FF, Fletcher, Hooper and co'.

 

The quality of this outfit can't be compared to that which Carlos had when we reached two play-offs IMO.

[swissmess]

5 hours ago, @owlstalk said:

 

Dave Allen would have had the foresight and common sense to send that greasy car salesman Carlvalhal packing long before Chansiri did

Yeah rated one of the best to watch sides in any division, wonderful goals and play and the brink of promotion. This, under your big hero is so much better. lovin it.

[Athelwulf]

1 hour ago, deano said:

All about opinions  but for me I'm not having Monk would have done better than Carlos with the Carlos squad. Lumping it upto FF and Hooper ain't going to get you anywhere. Monk doesnt work the ball forward as we did then, he plays percentage football.

 

Maybe, but he did very well with Leeds.

 

I mean, on paper they were a mid-table outfit and he got the heave-ho because he over-achieved.

 

Even though Leeds missed out on the play-offs they were still higher than they ought to have been.

 

And he got Wood firing, which earned Leeds a fortune when they flogged him, and he was the first to suss us out.

 

Pick the biggest midfield in history and double up down the flanks.

 

IMO to get us out of the mire a relegation specialist is required, like Warnock or McCarthy.

 

It's a specific job for a specific type of manager.

[Guest LondonOwl313]

14 minutes ago, Carbone said:

Mid table finish doesn’t sound like 6th to me.. I stand by what I said, nobody expected it 

I thought we’d be there or there abouts, or was at least hopeful of it before the season started given we had a new fancy manager and a lot of expensive new players. If we’d finished just outside that wouldn’t have been unexpected either though. 
 

Have to remember that we won the opening game against Bristol, then I think drew 2 and lost 3 from the next 5 so had 5 points from the first 6. The date of the post you’ve quoted is probably after the first 5 or 6 games so expectations would have been tempered by that start. 
 

[Bluesteel]

2 hours ago, gurujuan said:

Maybe some truth in the longevity thing, it does seem as if Carlos has never stayed too long anywhere. A couple of things, I’m not sure that he was given huge resources when compared to some of the competition The signings were generally excellent value for money in season one, and Carlos probably overachieved by getting us to Wembley In year two, despite having some poor signings foisted upon him, he still reached the play offs. Would agree that it was too much of a short term approach, but that’s hardly the fault of Carlos, he was just working to a brief. 

He got us to wembley season one and semis season two. By season 3 he was spent.

 

First season the recruitment was scattergun but the Bannan, pudil, FF and Hooper signings at the end of the window rescued it and we found a team.

 

Its not necessarily his fault that we were looking to go straight up or that we went for the finished article. It nearly worked. But had he accepted the need for pace on the counter over possession in some games and the need to be a bit uglier at the back and invest there earlier (Sasso, Van Aken et al were not the quality of the forward investment).

 

By the second season when we had Fletcher, Hooper, Winnall, Mcmanaman, Buckley, Forestieri, Winnall, Rhodes, Abdi as attacking options but no real improvements at the back he has his share of the blame. The money invested is in the accounts and compared to competitors it was right up there. 
 

Bruce came in with a shoestring but brought the kind of athletic attributes in that teams at this level need. I think we could’ve surprised a few last season had he stayed.

[stocksyuto]

CC was never backed after that 2nd season. Our transfers were the problem we should have strengthened and refreshed the team instead we signed crap . Said this from day 1 but 2 promotion failures we should have sold those we needed and gone for bigger and better but we didnt so we are not in this state

[NorthernOwl]

2 hours ago, Inspector Lestrade said:

 

No chance, checks and balances should have been put in place, its not for him to say no if he's told he can have certain players. 

 

Absolutely. To blame Carlos for our transfer strategy back then is insane. Just like with Monk he identified what type of players he wanted and was presented with options to say yes/no to.

 

How much those players cost, whether they were good investments or what they were paid had nothing to do with Carlos.

[Guest LondonOwl313]

1 hour ago, nort pole owl said:

It's not about spending less or more its about getting the job done cc got the money that no other swfc manager ever got and failed... We live a half a dream now were living the nightmare and dc and cc are the blame wolves chairman got there man bang promotion look at he's record versus cc... It was a bad appointment by dc 

Who should we have been promoted ahead of in either season then given the money spent. Year 1 automatics were Boro and Burnley, both teams with big budgets or newly relegated. We didn’t even have our main players signed until the end of the transfer window and it took until game 8 for us to get our second win bedding in all the new players. After 7 games we had 6 points, Boro and Burnley had 14. We were never going up automatically. Play offs we beat a very good Brighton side who were close to automatic, then lost out against a more experienced team and manager against Hull. Can’t really call that a failure to get over the line.

 

Year 2 Newcastle had a huge budget and Brighton were better than us again. We were well ahead of the likes of Villa and Norwich who had much bigger budgets. Admittedly we failed in the play offs but it really is a lottery when you’re in them and anyone can win.

 

First two years we did the right thing by being competitive and putting ourselves in contention.. unlucky not to get the breaks and get over the line. Our mistake is that we didn’t improve after year 2 and we stopped spending for various reasons. It’s been downhill since

[Devonstrix]

6 hours ago, @owlstalk said:

 

Dave Allen would have had the foresight and common sense to send that greasy car salesman Carlvalhal packing long before Chansiri did

What exactly do you mean when you call Carlos a ‘greasy car salesman’?

[Rogers]

7 hours ago, heppers said:

We arguably peaked to early under him. Some great times but the end was dire.

 

I’d love to know the real story.

The end was still better than Jos and Monk 

[The Night-Owl]

2 hours ago, @owlstalk said:

Has Paul Cook got one of those?

 

Cook's got three promotions and a few play off appearances during his managerial career, which is far better an achievement than manager of the month. Monk blew it at Leeds and Middlesbrough and couldn't even get them into the play offs. Monk has failed at every club he's managed and he's got nothing of note on his CV, especially at this level. 

[Guest Therealrealist]

2 hours ago, gizzit said:

Never look back at happier times...

Try to concentrate on all the sh@t that lays ahead. .. Rudyard kipling (cake maker)

Bit off topic but what happened to mr kiplings ‘exceedingly good cakes’..ant seen one of them adverts for ages

[Blue and white]

6 minutes ago, The Night-Owl said:

 

Cook's got three promotions and a few play off appearances during his managerial career, which is far better an achievement than manager of the month. Monk blew it at Leeds and Middlesbrough and couldn't even get them into the play offs. Monk has failed at every club he's managed and he's got nothing of note on his CV, especially at this level. 

That's the reason he won't walk, this is the last gig he will get at this level and will drop down the leagues once sacked.

[Sergeant Tibbs]

7 hours ago, SallyCinnamon said:

Just saying he had the foresight to see the moment he left this club was going to fall apart. He saw it coming.

 

VISIONARY. 

And his management of some the players was why it’ll gas fallen apart. 
Taking responsibility was never his strong suit. 

I’ll bet a crisp £20 note that someone comes on and defends him.