It's all down to Monk now.

[Pieman]

I think Monk would agree with the OP. As someone else said, we need to judge him from here onwards.

 

From my perspective, he has recruited well, we have the look of a strong side now. We will no longer be pushovers in either box.  Expect 1-0 to become order of the day and then over the next couple of windows, hopefully we can pick up a couple of marquee, Nando at his peak, type signings. I believe we now have more than enough to avoid the drop, as our results are showing.

[areNOTwhatTHEYseem]

1 minute ago, keepitsteel89 said:

Who are these great players we have let go then in recent seasons? 

 

I didn't mention 'great players'; I said that given the calibre of player who've left in recent seasons, the signings we've made this season are unlikely to see us return to the upper reaches of the Championship, where we were when we had the likes of Lee, Wallace, João, Pudil, Hunt, Forestieri, Loovens, Hooper, López, Fletcher...

 

I'm happy with the signings we've made in the context of where we currently are as a club, but the idea that being allowed to spend £1m on transfer fees in order to overturn a 12 point deficit means that Monk is now on easy street is laughable.

[parajack]

45 minutes ago, keepitsteel89 said:

Who are these great players we have let go then in recent seasons? 

You would be talking season 15/16 4,almost 5  years ago,Fletcher? rarely in his career got more than a dozen goals a season....Hooper?..errrr  next, injured...& so on...last 2 seasons?.......whose been exceptional?

Edited October 19, 2020 by parajack

[parajack]

31 minutes ago, areNOTwhatTHEYseem said:

 

I didn't mention 'great players'; I said that given the calibre of player who've left in recent seasons, the signings we've made this season are unlikely to see us return to the upper reaches of the Championship, where we were when we had the likes of Lee, Wallace, João, Pudil, Hunt, Forestieri, Loovens, Hooper, López, Fletcher...

 

I'm happy with the signings we've made in the context of where we currently are as a club, but the idea that being allowed to spend £1m on transfer fees in order to overturn a 12 point deficit means that Monk is now on easy street is laughable.

Here we go again.....all our 'yesterdays'..ZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

 

Neither you,or I know if the current squad are capable of a run at the 'play offs' (easily achievable given the Division) eg next Year(when presumably some of the loans may become permanent,or new signings added)

 

We have a well organised side,(demonstrated by clean sheets & results/performances) and with a much younger,determined forward line,and a young manager with something to prove,I believe even a run at the play offs is not out of the Q this season,if the goals come.

 

 

[Jim]

2 minutes ago, parajack said:

You would be talking season 15/16 4,almost 5  years ago,Fletcher? rarely in his career got more than a dozen goals a season....Hooper?..errrr  next, injured...& so on...last 2 seasons?.......whose been exceptional?

 

Fletcher and Hooper are Top Drawer players at this level and they showed that more often than not in their time here when they were fit and available but alas that was the problem.

 

We talk about not having a 20 goal a season striker at this level since Hirsty 30 years ago but I think both Hooper and Fletcher would’ve done this fitness permitting. Hooper in 2017/18 and Fletcher last season when both were around the 12 goal mark at the halfway stage of the season only to miss most if not all of the second half of the season?

[parajack]

10 minutes ago, Jim said:

 

Fletcher and Hooper are Top Drawer players at this level and they showed that more often than not in their time here when they were fit and available but alas that was the problem.

 

We talk about not having a 20 goal a season striker at this level since Hirsty 30 years ago but I think both Hooper and Fletcher would’ve done this fitness permitting. Hooper in 2017/18 and Fletcher last season when both were around the 12 goal mark at the halfway stage of the season only to miss most if not all of the second half of the season?

Fletcher has never done it Jim in his entire career:

Let alone at his age now,

2004–2009Hibernian 156 (43)

2009–2010Burnley 35(8)

2010–2012Wolverhampton Wanderers 61(22)

2012–2016Sunderland 94(23)

2016→ Marseille (loan) 12(2)

2016–2020Sheffield Wednesday 124(36) Hooper? classy player but if he is so good,why hasnt he been snapped up by a Championship club?....last i saw he had returned to the UK injured.

[keepitsteel89]

1 hour ago, areNOTwhatTHEYseem said:

 

I didn't mention 'great players'; I said that given the calibre of player who've left in recent seasons, the signings we've made this season are unlikely to see us return to the upper reaches of the Championship, where we were when we had the likes of Lee, Wallace, João, Pudil, Hunt, Forestieri, Loovens, Hooper, López, Fletcher...

 

I'm happy with the signings we've made in the context of where we currently are as a club, but the idea that being allowed to spend £1m on transfer fees in order to overturn a 12 point deficit means that Monk is now on easy street is laughable.

every player bar Lopez in that list would not do a job for us now, either past it or not hungry enough, so if you goin on players past it like pudil and loovens, why not ad des walker to the list lol.. recent years

[@owlstalk]

2 minutes ago, keepitsteel89 said:

every player bar Lopez in that list would not do a job for us now, either past it or not hungry enough, so if you goin on players past it like pudil and loovens, why not ad des walker to the list lol.. recent years

 

 

Not sure you've understood his point mate

[Jim]

15 minutes ago, parajack said:

Fletcher has never done it Jim in his entire career:

Let alone at his age now,

2004–2009Hibernian 156 (43)

2009–2010Burnley 35(8)

2010–2012Wolverhampton Wanderers 61(22)

2012–2016Sunderland 94(23)

2016→ Marseille (loan) 12(2)

2016–2020Sheffield Wednesday 124(36) Hooper? classy player but if he is so good,why hasnt he been snapped up by a Championship club?....last i saw he had returned to the UK injured.

 

I just think Fletch was playing at such a high level of performance last season he would’ve smashed 20 had he stayed fit.

 

I think Hooper’s fitness issues have probably put championship clubs off him particularly with the money he’d probably want?

[keepitsteel89]

4 minutes ago, keepitsteel89 said:

every player bar Lopez in that list would not do a job for us now, either past it or not hungry enough, so if you goin on players past it like pudil and loovens, why not ad des walker to the list lol.. recent years

Fletcher, lopez lees and loovens are arguable all better than what we have now*, but whats the argument here that we should have kept them longer? or replaced them with better? Because given the situation we are in I don't think anyone could have done much better 

Edited October 19, 2020 by keepitsteel89

[parajack]

1 minute ago, Jim said:

 

I just think Fletch was playing at such a high level of performance last season he would’ve smashed 20 had he stayed fit.

 

I think Hooper’s fitness issues have probably put championship clubs off him particularly with the money he’d probably want?

He doesnt stay fit though does he Jim? in recent years? so its academic....How long was it at Stoke before he was injured?

[Jim]

Just now, parajack said:

He doesnt stay fit though does he Jim? in recent years? so its academic....How long was it at Stoke before he was injured?

 

Fair point Jack. I suppose we’ll only know come the end of the season whether we did the right thing or not letting him go?

[keepitsteel89]

Fletcher, lopez lees and loovens arguably were all better than what we have now* but to say we failed to replace them is daft imo the differences are miniscule, we have a really decent squad capable of a mid table finish, with a 12 point deduction, I don't get the complaints

[parajack]

1 hour ago, keepitsteel89 said:

Fletcher, lopez lees and loovens arguably were all better than what we have now* but to say we failed to replace them is daft imo the differences are miniscule, we have a really decent squad capable of a mid table finish, with a 12 point deduction, I don't get the complaints

How do we know if they are going to be better or not? certainly early signs are we are going to be hard to score against,if the goals start flowing,and a partnership formed up front,the existing players overall record may well exceed that of those before...

 

Its too early to make a comparison.........................

[The only way is S6]

7 points from safety, 13 from play-offs.

 

Colin Murray 

[areNOTwhatTHEYseem]

3 hours ago, parajack said:

Here we go again.....all our 'yesterdays'..ZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

 

Neither you,or I know if the current squad are capable of a run at the 'play offs' (easily achievable given the Division) eg next Year(when presumably some of the loans may become permanent,or new signings added)

 

We have a well organised side,(demonstrated by clean sheets & results/performances) and with a much younger,determined forward line,and a young manager with something to prove,I believe even a run at the play offs is not out of the Q this season,if the goals come.

 

If you want a sensible discussion, you might be best to start with something a little more constructive than your opening line here. 

 

 

As for the rest of your post, it seems you might have missed my point. I'm simply pointing out that we've shed a lot of talented players in recent years and have spent £1m in this transfer window to replace a decent chunk of them. The players we've brought in don't strike me as being of the same quality - and the fact we were able to recruit them for a combined fee of £1m in comparison to the fees we were splashing out in the first few years of Chansiri's reign might support that - but as I've pointed out in this thread and elsewhere, a team is often greater than the sum of its parts.

 

Hopefully that's the case in this instance, but to claim that Monk 'has been well backed by Chansiri' and therefore 'has no more excuses' as the OP did, is to ignore the wider context in which we're currently operating.

 

PS - I admire your optimism, but in order to reach the playoffs this season, we'll need to achieve something like 1.83 points per game, which is better than the form needed for automatic promotion in an average Championship season. If we manage that, it will of course be fantastic, but I'm focussing on avoiding relegation first.

[areNOTwhatTHEYseem]

3 hours ago, keepitsteel89 said:

every player bar Lopez in that list would not do a job for us now, either past it or not hungry enough, so if you goin on players past it like pudil and loovens, why not ad des walker to the list lol.. recent years

 

You didn't seriously think I was suggesting wheeling Loovens, Pudil or Hooper out again in 2020, did you?

 

 

All I'm saying is these were all effective Championship players who have since left our club and we've replaced them with cheaper alternatives who, by their very nature, lack the proven track record that most of these players came with.

 

As I also said, I'm happy with our recruitment in the context we find ourselves, but the concept of Monk being 'well backed by Chansiri' is all relative, isn't it?

[keepitsteel89]

1 hour ago, areNOTwhatTHEYseem said:

 

You didn't seriously think I was suggesting wheeling Loovens, Pudil or Hooper out again in 2020, did you?

 

 

All I'm saying is these were all effective Championship players who have since left our club and we've replaced them with cheaper alternatives who, by their very nature, lack the proven track record that most of these players came with.

 

As I also said, I'm happy with our recruitment in the context we find ourselves, but the concept of Monk being 'well backed by Chansiri' is all relative, isn't it?

Yeah no that was my dumbass moment tbh haha, but come on..puldi, loovens..hooper, these were all cheap as chips aswell, I bet the wages of the current loans would horrify even Gary Hopper

Edited October 19, 2020 by keepitsteel89

[areNOTwhatTHEYseem]

11 minutes ago, keepitsteel89 said:

Yeah no that was my dumbass moment tbh haha, but come on..puldi, loovens..hooper, these were all cheep as chips aswell, I bet the wages of the current loans would horrify even Gary Hopper

 

I think we spent more on Pudil's fee than we spent in total this summer, although reports of exactly what the breakdown between him and Abdi was varied.

 

I'd be amazed if the likes of Fletcher, Forestieri, Fletcher etc. were on less than Paterson, Kachunga and Windass etc. We've certainly got to hope they weren't, otherwise we'll be headed for another points deduction before too long!

 

Ultimately, we've been (quite rightly) cutting costs for the last few seasons and have had to cut our cloth accordingly. The idea that Monk has been lavishly backed in the transfer market is way wide of the mark when you compare it to many other Championship clubs or our own recent history.

[oldishowl]

You cannot discuss the quality of a player without including his fitness.

 

It is obviously key because unless a player is on the pitch it is irrelevant how good he his.

We had too many good players on big money not playing games. Hence they were very little use to us and not good players for us. Nice to watch when they were on the pitch, but overall didn’t give us value for money.

 

The best two players in the world for a very long period, possibly ever but who knows, have been Ronaldo and Messi.

 

Unbelievable ability but what really sets them apart alongside that ability is their fitness and the number of games they continue to play.