Jump to content

GARRY MONK THREAD - All posts about the manager in here please


Recommended Posts

4 minutes ago, Ronio said:

Would we go down say if we averaged 1.2 points per game?

 

On the average of the past six seasons, yes.

 

In reality, that points average would still have been enough to keep us up in four of the past six seasons, though.

 

The average points needed is just a rough guide, but given the fact that we're starting on minus 12 and will most likely be in the bottom three into the new year, it gives us something to use to track our progress as the season develops.

 

What the poster I was replying to is suggesting is that anything less than 1.55 points per game up to Christmas should result in our manager being sacked, which seems like a very high standard to hold him to given the squad we have. That would be playoff-challenging form without our points deduction.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

42 minutes ago, areNOTwhatTHEYseem said:

 

By Christmas, we'll have played 20 league matches.

 

Given that the average number of points required to be clear of the bottom three after 20 games in the past six Championship seasons is 19, we'd need to achieve 31 points from our first 20 matches once you factor in our points deduction.

 

However, over the past six Championship seasons, 44 points is the average needed to stay up, meaning we probably need to average 1.3 points per game to ensure we stay up despite our points deduction. Although we'd be on track to avoid relegation, this would see us sat on 14 points at Christmas, and almost certainly still in the bottom three.

 

Would you really want to sack our manager if he had us on track to overcome our points deduction and stay up by the end of the season, though?

Yes have you not seen Monks second half of seasons.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, @owlstalk said:

 


What about the first half of last season though?

Again how much of this was monk ?? 
 

We had our best start in years under Bullen and monk came in and rightly so carried it on. However as time went on and more of monks ideas got across we got worse performance wise but picked up results (Bristol before Christmas being a prime example we were woeful but won 1-0) then bam it all went off. 

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, areNOTwhatTHEYseem said:

 

On the average of the past six seasons, yes.

 

In reality, that points average would still have been enough to keep us up in four of the past six seasons, though.

 

The average points needed is just a rough guide, but given the fact that we're starting on minus 12 and will most likely be in the bottom three into the new year, it gives us something to use to track our progress as the season develops.

 

What the poster I was replying to is suggesting is that anything less than 1.55 points per game up to Christmas should result in our manager being sacked, which seems like a very high standard to hold him to given the squad we have. That would be playoff-challenging form without our points deduction.

Cheers for the response.  

 

That is my issue with the 1.3 average as a guide.  It is cutting it far too close for my liking, and this is Wednesday we are talking about here.  

 

The way I see it if we were on and around that average of 1.3, and stayed on that average come the end of the season, it could still see us relegated, as there isn't much of a leeway.  

 

On that basis we should be aiming for a higher average. And I agree with the poster mentioning that we need playoff form, which is absolutely correct.  

 

Another way of looking at this deduction and battle to survive.  I will give you an example.

 

Say hypothetically it took us 10 games to reach that 12 points needed.

 

If you averaged out that the bottom clubs will be on around 1 point per game, that would still leave us in theory 10 points behind.  

 

Then you tally up roughly the amount of games that it would take to achieve that 10 points.  If it took us say 7 games to get that 10 points, It would in theory still leave us needing 7 more points.  Etc etc until we get out of relegation. 

 

The point I'm making is, one, that the deficit we are facing is much more than 12 points.  We are effectively constantly having to play catch up at every turn.  

 

Two, the longer it takes us as in games needed to accumulate wins over the course of the season, the harder our job will be in getting out of it.  

 

Therefore, it is imperative that we get ourselves out of the mess we are in as quick as possible, this bit is essential.  Ideally we would need to be out of the relegation zone by Christmas, New year at the latest.  

 

As was said that if we were averaging 1.3 points by Christmas and sat at the bottom of the league, we would seriously have to consider whether that was good enough or is more of the same we saw last season.

 

When we tally points up that factors in the variables over the course of the whole season, that threshold of 1.3 is too low imo.  

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Several on here have said he should be sacked if we're not out of the bottom 3 by Christmas. Hell, I'd be happy enough for us to scrape out of the bottom 3 by the end of the season. Given the points deduction, the trimming of the wage bill, the lack of strikers and the lack of funds to bring in any quality, I'd say that represented a successful season. 

 

I was in the 'Monk out' mob last season but I've been impressed with what he's tried to set up for this season. It might not be pretty but I think he's putting together a bunch of players who will scrap their way to survival. If he manages that in these circumstances he'll be a hero to me.

 

It'll still be tough because I can't see where the goals will come from - and that's not necessarily his fault.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

22 minutes ago, Dutch McLovin said:

Again how much of this was monk ?? 
 

We had our best start in years under Bullen and monk came in and rightly so carried it on. However as time went on and more of monks ideas got across we got worse performance wise but picked up results (Bristol before Christmas being a prime example we were woeful but won 1-0) then bam it all went off. 

 

You could flip this and say how much of the second half was Monks fault?

 

He had his ideas and you could see the players couldn't care less either way, they were lazy, flat and not interested but they got an easy ride from fans as it's always the managers fault. 

 

Monks ideas have been put across this season and the players are responding and enjoying it. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 hours ago, @owlstalk said:



I honestly believe that ALL clubs  should be banned from ever sacking a manager mid-season

They should be forced to stick with their chosen manager from the start of a season to the end of it

Might have been”lucky” enough to have kept JL; whilst awful, he somehow managed a better points return than GM.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 minutes ago, Ronio said:

Cheers for the response.  

 

That is my issue with the 1.3 average as a guide.  It is cutting it far too close for my liking, and this is Wednesday we are talking about here.  

 

The way I see it if we were on and around that average of 1.3, and stayed on that average come the end of the season, it could still see us relegated, as there isn't much of a leeway.  

 

On that basis we should be aiming for a higher average. And I agree with the poster mentioning that we need playoff form, which is absolutely correct.  

 

Another way of looking at this deduction and battle to survive.  I will give you an example.

 

Say hypothetically it took us 10 games to reach that 12 points needed.

 

If you averaged out that the bottom clubs will be on around 1 point per game, that would still leave us in theory 10 points behind.  

 

Then you tally up roughly the amount of games that it would take to achieve that 10 points.  If it took us say 7 games to get that 10 points, It would in theory still leave us needing 7 more points.  Etc etc until we get out of relegation. 

 

The point I'm making is, one, that the deficit we are facing is much more than 12 points.  We are effectively constantly having to play catch up at every turn.  

 

Two, the longer it takes us as in games needed to accumulate wins over the course of the season, the harder our job will be in getting out of it.  

 

Therefore, it is imperative that we get ourselves out of the mess we are in as quick as possible, this bit is essential.  Ideally we would need to be out of the relegation zone by Christmas, New year at the latest.  

 

As was said that if we were averaging 1.3 points by Christmas and sat at the bottom of the league, we would seriously have to consider whether that was good enough or is more of the same we saw last season.

 

When we tally points up that factors in the variables over the course of the whole season, that threshold of 1.3 is too low imo.  

 

I can understand that point of view, but for me our primary objective this season is to make sure that we finish the season above the dreaded drop zone. If it takes until game 46 to get there, then so be it.

 

Of course I'd rather us get out of trouble and have a comfortable end to the season, but I've accepted that this is unlikely given the lack of resources we've been able to invest in rebuilding our squad this summer.

 

I fully expect us to be in the bottom three at Christmas.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 hours ago, shandypants said:

Dear “Monk out” mob

 

Can’t you see that you’re p1551ng into the wind? 
 

Firstly, Monk has just been allowed to completely restructure the first team and under 23 management set up and bring in four or five new management team members - that suggests he has Chansiri’s backing; secondly, Chansiri hasn’t generally got an itchy trigger finger and tends to hang onto managers; and lastly, Monk has been set the task of refreshing the squad by replacing the “proven” high wage earners with lower wage earners with the potential to kick on - Chansiri will be expecting poor performances and bad results. 
 

You “Monk out” lot ought to keep your powder dry because it seems pretty futile to call for Monk to go at the point in time. 
 

Regards 

 

Shandy

There is a difference between wanting Monk out and believing it will actually happen.

 

For me I agree with what you said. I still think he should have been sacked at the end of last season, but I knew it wasn't going to happen.

 

And after last season, he's not convinced me he is the right man for the job and nothing has changed my mind since.

 

However, lets give him a chance, the next 6 games are crucial, anything less than 10 points and he's a dead man walking where the fans are concerned. My worry is, 6 poor results and it could be too late to rescue the season.

 

I've always said even with -12 relegation would be failure, but if we stay up add 12 points and see where we would have finished. Anything above 12th I'd consider good progress!

 

Oh and were not a 'Mob' just fans with a different opinion of the manager!

  • Like 5
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, areNOTwhatTHEYseem said:

 

I can understand that point of view, but for me our primary objective this season is to make sure that we finish the season above the dreaded drop zone. If it takes until game 46 to get there, then so be it.

 

Of course I'd rather us get out of trouble and have a comfortable end to the season, but I've accepted that this is unlikely given the lack of resources we've been able to invest in rebuilding our squad this summer.

 

I fully expect us to be in the bottom three at Christmas.

I fully respect your opinion, my primary objective this season is also to see us not get relegated.  

 

The easiest way for us to do that is as quick as possible.  It was one of the reason why I said before the season started that we needed to hit the ground running.  

 

The first 20 games will show us whether there has been a significant improvement or not.  

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, hasthagotanycheese said:

Yeah, that bloke that built a promotion winning side from Alan Irvine's team of losers, signed Antonio, tried to get Chris Wood & Jeff Schlup when they were unknown. He is twice the manager that the current incumbent is. I'll take The Laird of West Bromwich's % win ratio of 45 % with us against the organ grinders monkey's measly 32 % anytime thank you. 

Megson lost the plot

 

Dave Jones got us promoted

  • Like 1

Just a bloke, who used up all his luck in one go when he met his wife.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 minutes ago, areNOTwhatTHEYseem said:

 

I can understand that point of view, but for me our primary objective this season is to make sure that we finish the season above the dreaded drop zone. If it takes until game 46 to get there, then so be it.

 

Of course I'd rather us get out of trouble and have a comfortable end to the season, but I've accepted that this is unlikely given the lack of resources we've been able to invest in rebuilding our squad this summer.

 

I fully expect us to be in the bottom three at Christmas.

 

I agree and expect bottom 3 at Christmas.

 

People still banging on about a manager change are being very short sighted in my opinion. This idea that a new manager comes in and that sparks a winning run just isn't accurate. Monk has now been allowed to add to the squad and the players seem very positive. If there was a manager change we'd be back to square one.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thing is if we were so bloody good under Monk in the first half of last season, why were we so bloody awful

in the second half of the season.

 

Only Terry Yorath since 2000 has had a worse points record over half a season in the championship with 14 points to Monk’s 17 in the first half of 2002/03 (Chris Turner was in charge for part of this period). Yorath had the good grace to resign.

 

And as for all this ‘I Told You So’ b*ll**ks, if I’m right about him I won’t shout about it and if he proves me wrong then fair play to him. Thing is I can only remember Atkinson turning around a wretched run of form in 1989/90 before the wheels came off but he did put them back on the following season quite spectacularly. Alas Monk isn’t anywhere near Atkinson’s level and probably never will be?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hardly reasonable to judge him on last year, and we can evidently see the formula he is trying to create this season. He deserves credit for completely changing the shape of the club over the last few months.
 

I like what I’m seeing, and I like what’s been implemented so far. he seems to know his onions. I can’t for the life of me see what a change of manager would bring, considering all of the above 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

57 minutes ago, hasthagotanycheese said:

With Megsons team.

Megson wouldn't have done it

 

Mandaric saw that and acted

 

The thing I didn't like about Megson was if we were winning around the 65th minute, he'd take off our attacking threat and go all out defensive

 

It cost him dearly at Walsall, we were winning 1-0 with 10 or 15 minutes left, he took off Marshall and Rob Jones, and we fell apart and lost with two late goals

 

He did similar at home to Huddersfield, winning 4-2 he took Marshall off again, we all know how that ended up

 

Megson thought he was a master tactician, and he wasn't, he was the same as Pulis, grab a lead and defend it

 

Thankfully Manderic saw this and did what had to be done

Just a bloke, who used up all his luck in one go when he met his wife.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 hours ago, shandypants said:

Dear “Monk out” mob

 

Can’t you see that you’re p1551ng into the wind? 
 

Firstly, Monk has just been allowed to completely restructure the first team and under 23 management set up and bring in four or five new management team members - that suggests he has Chansiri’s backing; secondly, Chansiri hasn’t generally got an itchy trigger finger and tends to hang onto managers; and lastly, Monk has been set the task of refreshing the squad by replacing the “proven” high wage earners with lower wage earners with the potential to kick on - Chansiri will be expecting poor performances and bad results. 
 

You “Monk out” lot ought to keep your powder dry because it seems pretty futile to call for Monk to go at the point in time. 
 

Regards 

 

Shandy

I am happy how the squad is turning out ,We knew we had to get rid of the old legs in the squad .

  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...