GARRY MONK THREAD - All posts about the manager in here please

[beloved_aunt]

12 minutes ago, parajack said:

Playing out from the back served Jos well didnt it? Its ideological nonsense,& Bruce by the way,was a fan of the long ball game...you just have to have the players to make it work.

Monk not quite there yet,maybe Patterson will be the player to join the dots...dont need sideways passes & passing back to the goalie

I’m not demanding Tiki-Taka. Just trying to highlight how unusual our style is. It’s as extreme and ideological as the managers who pass out no matter what. And I don’t think it gets the best out of our squad. 
 

I want something in between. 

[Django]

4 hours ago, Costello 77 said:

The manager and his coaches have a big job on.

The players have a big job on.

 

The OWNER has backed this group and he's stumping up for the project.

 

FFS give them time!!

 

It's a big rebuild that's hardly f*cking started. We're more than holding our own so far and the longer the group work together the better the outcomes will be imo..

My concern is that we’re entrusting someone with a major rebuild who hasn’t ever done a rebuild before. He usually gets sacked before the roof goes on 

[Jim]

We were seconds away from

picking up 7 points from twelve which would’ve had us on a total better than the -6 I thought we needed going into the international break. We’re on -7.

 

That just about sums up Monk’s time here so far. We show some signs of improvement or something or other but we always seem to come up short. And that’s what happens when you play the percentages rather than giving it a real go at the opposition and leaving everything on the pitch win, lose or draw.

 

I noticed a post referring to Stuart Gray’s time in charge and DC’s decision

to let him go. As solid as were under Gray, our home form certainly from a goalscoring perspective mirrors Monk’s home record now. You have to wonder why he’s still in this job? Is it the points deduction? the pandemic?

 

I don’t want to see him fail contrary to what some might think on here. I want to him to succeed at least in keeping us up this season. But do I feel he will go on to achieve DC’s stated aim of promotion to the premier league? No I don’t. When fans do return to S6, the crowds eventually will show a decrease as no one will want to pay the prices to watch Monk’s style of football. 

 

Some will put up with it, if we’re getting good results but the plain fact is, we aren’t. Whoever comes in after Monk will have a harder job than the one Monk

originally had IMO?

[shezzas left peg]

On 04/10/2020 at 01:19, Everywhere & nowhere said:

Good that we’ve got another 42 games to go then. It surprises me that people are watching and not seeing some progression in performance and it surprises more that supporters of the club don’t seem prepared to allow for bad luck and injuries anymore. Just maybe the internet generation are a bit entitled and unrealistic?

I'm an engineer a realist bud. Yes you can see progression on the pitch, we do look better as a team snd a unit, the work rate is bck up too. 

Though at the end of the season it's a results based game, we played some brilliant football under big Ron Atkinson, but we got relagated becouse we didn't have that end product and post enough wins on the board. This is the problem, we can't just shuffle through the season like this we need to start putting chances away and killing teams off when we're on top and we're just not capable of doing that at the moment which is obviously a worry. 

[areNOTwhatTHEYseem]

10 hours ago, beloved_aunt said:

Understand that managers will tweak their style depending on players at their disposal. 
 

My original point was about how weird it was that Monk has progressed from being a possession based passing manager at Swansea to being such a good all manager now. 
 

We’re not just a bit more direct, he’s got an ideological commitment to route one. This analysis of the stats shows we were the second most direct team in the week Champs last season - https://theathletic.co.uk/1988826/2020/08/27/does-monkball-exist-how-do-wednesday-play-under-monk/ - only Cardiff, managed by Warnock & Harris last year FFS, were more direct than us. We’re the only team in the league who didn’t take one goal kick in the area ever under Monk. Why?
 

I think this ideological commitment to long ball isn’t getting the most out of our squad. I think Bannan/Luongo/Brown are a midfield who can play. I think DI and JVA are defenders who can bring it out. 

 

I can't read that article as it's hidden behind a paywall. Where has the phrase 'Monkball' come from, though!?

 

 

whoscored.com has us joint 7th in last season's Championship for long balls per game, behind Preston. Blackburn, Bristol City, Wigan, Stoke and Cardiff, and level with Charlton. 

 

There does seem to have been a shift in Monk's approach over the course of his relatively short career, though: his Birmingham team were in the middle of the division for long balls per game in his only full season there, whilst his Leeds side played the third fewest number of long balls per game in 16/17.

 

We certainly are playing a more direct brand of football than we were used to under Carvalhal, but that's hardly surprising given the type of players we've now got in our squad. I suppose the question is whether we feel a more possession-based passing game would get better results out of our current squad. Honestly, I'm not sure.

 

As much as I'd love to see that style of football return to Hillsborough at some point, I'm also aware that our defence remains painfully fragile. Playing a more fluent passing game and looking to drag the opposition out of position as we did under Carvalhal can leave your backline badly exposed when it inevitably breaks down. When we had the likes of Pudil, Hunt and Loovens alongside Lees, that seemed a fair trade-off; now that we're relying on van Aken, Iorfa, Harris, Odubajo or Palmer, it's more of a risk. Perhaps Dunkly might make a difference in that regard? Or perhaps I'm clutching at straws!

 

The way our defence was shredded by several Championship sides last season was painful to watch and perhaps makes ensuring we keep a decent shape and that the midfield protects the backline an understandable priority.

 

I agree that Bannan, Brown and Luongo are capable of playing a more intricate passing game than we've seen from them in the opening few games of this season, but it's whether asking them to do so leads to greater problems at the back which the manager has to weigh up, I suppose.

 

Ultimately, whatever style of football we adopt, it's going to be judged on results. So far, we've done okay in a relatively tricky opening few matches. If our new-look strike-force can start to develop a decent understanding and work on a few effective attacking plays, then Monk's counter-attacking style might do the trick. If not, it will be interesting to see if he's able to change it with the squad he's got.

[@owlstalk]

3 hours ago, Jim said:

 Whoever comes in after Monk will have a harder job than the one Monk originally had IMO?

 

WTF???

[areNOTwhatTHEYseem]

3 hours ago, Jim said:

Whoever comes in after Monk will have a harder job than the one Monk originally had

 

Nah, that's just excuses.

 

I want whoever comes in after Monk OUT, and I've always said that. Nothing I've seen from them yet has changed my view and nothing will (although I hope they prove me wrong, of course).

 

Unless we ditch whoever comes in after Monk NOW, we'll be in massive trouble.

 

[SouthernOwl24]

Keep playing the way we play on Saturday we will keep drawing and losing and then go down. Simple as that. PPG not good enough currently. They were there for the taking and we played terribly first half when we should be up and at them at home. No shots on target first half shows how bad it was. 

 

Yes we were seconds away from winning but ultimately we didn't win. Exactly the same errors as last year. 

 

I see improvements in work rate. But that is about it to be honest. Quality of player has decreased from this time last year and the football we play at times is dull dull dull. 

 

Give Monk until game 10 and if we are not looking as though we will achieve 63-65 points on PPG get rid. I highly doubt we will be at this rate but cannot get rid 4 games into a season. I don't hate Monk as I don't even know him - I just don't think he is the man to save us from this situation. 

 

I do not believe on PPG and goals scored we have ever had a worse manager? Please someone try to convince me that from what we have seen over the last year and the early stages this season it is worth keeping him in. 

 

 

 

[@owlstalk]

 

Why the hell are people pointing to just ONE game and one result and saying 'If we keep playing like this we will go down' and not doing the same analysis / points when we play well??

Don't you see how unbalanced that is?

 

 

[royalowlisback]

We don't create enough chances, and our forwards are not good enough to convert the few we make.

 

We are playing Wimbledon-esque football, without the players to do it. Long, direct hoofballs, percentage football from a bygone era, yet with players who can actually play being bypassed.

 

Players are out of position, and since we insisted on playing 5 at the back (lets not pretend its a 3) our results, performances and football have got even worse.

 

I think even without a points deduction, we would be in a relegation fight with this manager and his style of football, we are pretty much doomed if we don't win the appeal.

[areNOTwhatTHEYseem]

1 minute ago, royalowlisback said:

We don't create enough chances, and our forwards are not good enough to convert the few we make.

 

We are playing Wimbledon-esque football, without the players to do it. Long, direct hoofballs, percentage football from a bygone era, yet with players who can actually play being bypassed.

 

Players are out of position, and since we insisted on playing 5 at the back (lets not pretend its a 3) our results, performances and football have got even worse.

 

I think even without a points deduction, we would be in a relegation fight with this manager and his style of football, we are pretty much doomed if we don't win the appeal.

 

I don't have time to reply to the rest of this post, but if you look at the average player positions from last week's game, you can see that our wingbacks are pretty far forward.

 

It's interesting that you're seeing this as a back 5, though.

 

[SouthernOwl24]

8 minutes ago, @owlstalk said:

 

Why the hell are people pointing to just ONE game and one result and saying 'If we keep playing like this we will go down' and not doing the same analysis / points when we play well??

Don't you see how unbalanced that is?

 

 

What do you mean? I am not pointing to one game. Currently at 5 points in 4 games this is not good enough. 

 

I was already concerned from last year's form going into the season. Nothing has currently changed my mind to think we have had a massive improvement. 

 

Add to that our strike force with again zero proof of regular goals. - Rhodes aside but we all know he is not coming back to form. 

 

His direct managerial decision on Saturday to go defensive from 70 minutes invited pressure onto us and allowed them to create a several chances. Why are we frightened of QPR? They offered nothing until we went defensive. Why cant we attack and take the game to them, especially at home and go for the second goal? We just rely on counter attacks for the last 20 minutes instead. 

 

Basically several decisions that Monk has made has led to our downfall. I don't understand why you cant see this. 

 

 

[royalowlisback]

1 minute ago, areNOTwhatTHEYseem said:

 

I don't have time to reply to the rest of this post, but if you look at the average player positions from last week's game, you can see that our wingbacks are pretty far forward.

 

It's interesting that you're seeing this as a back 5, though.

 

Stop replying with facts. 

[areNOTwhatTHEYseem]

34 minutes ago, SouthernOwl24 said:

What do you mean? I am not pointing to one game. Currently at 5 points in 4 games this is not good enough. 

 

I was already concerned from last year's form going into the season. Nothing has currently changed my mind to think we have had a massive improvement. 

 

Add to that our strike force with again zero proof of regular goals. - Rhodes aside but we all know he is not coming back to form. 

 

His direct managerial decision on Saturday to go defensive from 70 minutes invited pressure onto us and allowed them to create a several chances. Why are we frightened of QPR? They offered nothing until we went defensive. Why cant we attack and take the game to them, especially at home and go for the second goal? We just rely on counter attacks for the last 20 minutes instead. 

 

Basically several decisions that Monk has made has led to our downfall. I don't understand why you cant see this. 

 

Surely you can see the issue with looking at our points haul after only four games, though?

 

If we win our next game, then our points per game jumps to 1.6 and we'd be looking at finishing the season on 61 points. Just as that wouldn't suggest we were on track for a successful season after only five matches, nor does our current points tally suggest we're doomed after only four games.

 

We'll have tough runs of games where we struggle for points, and we'll have easier spells where the points roll in more readily. Our opening 4 games against Cardiff, Watford, Bristol City and QPR probably err towards the tougher end of the spectrum, but ultimately it's just too early to tell.

 

I imagine after a dozen games we'll have a much clearer idea of our prospects for the season ahead.

 

I think we've shown impressive team shape and organisation in these opening few weeks of the season, and have limited our opponents to only a handful of decent chances. The effort and coherence of the team looks much better than it did for large parts of last season, too.

 

As for Saturday's game, it was a typical battle between two average Championship sides who largely cancelled each other out and made it a difficult afternoon for each other. 

 

We weren't great, but we weren't bad either. As I said, it was a typical Championship battle. At the start of the second half, I thought we got on top of them and deserved to take the lead. After bringing on Pelupessy, we looked fairly comfortable in defence and were frustrating QPR's attacking intentions. Hitting them on the break also led to our most clear-cut chance of the game, which Luongo unfortunately spurned.

 

I thought we defended well with 11 men on the pitch. Unfortunately, we suffered a ridiculous sequence of injuries which saw us reduced to ten men, and the equaliser came in the 96th minute whilst our centrebacks were Odubajo, Paterson and van Aken.

 

It was intensely frustrating, but sometimes these things conspire against you.

 

We've made a solid start to the season in our opening four games. To have taken five points from Cardiff, Watford, Bristol City and QPR is better than many on here were predicting and gives us a platform on which to build.

 

I agree that our strikeforce is a concern, though - without Fletcher last season we looked toothless. I like the energy Windass, Kachunga and Paterson bring, but whether or not the goals will follow remains to be seen. They've barely had any time to form an understanding yet, though. Hopefully with some dedicated time together on the training pitch, that will start to develop and we'll start to see a more effective frontline taking shape.

[Jim]

2 hours ago, @owlstalk said:

 

WTF???

 

Because IMO, I think he’ll set us back. He might not? I hope he doesn’t but 12 months on from his arrival we’re arguably worse off than we were. You obviously think we’re in a better position? Me and a few others on here think we aren’t but for the umpteenth time, I don’t hate Monk, I’m not anti-Monk, I hope he does well but I honestly don’t think he’s up to the job required here.

[@owlstalk]

Just now, Jim said:

  I don’t hate Monk, I’m not anti-Monk 

 

HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA!!!!!!

 

   

Yeah

ALREYT JIM

Jeeeeeesus

[Jim]

Just now, @owlstalk said:

 

HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA!!!!!!

 

   

Yeah

ALREYT JIM

Jeeeeeesus

 

I don’t rate him as a manager. Does that make me hate him or anti-him? No it doesn’t.

[@owlstalk]

Just now, Jim said:

 

I don’t rate him as a manager. Does that make me hate him or anti-him? No it doesn’t.

 

 

    

Incredible claims mate

Check your posting history

You know... the 23429369 anti-monk threads you post EVERY SINGLE DAY

Every single post is anti-Monk

Don't patronise us with the 'I'm not anti-monk'  and "I hope he proves me wrong" and "I hope he turns it round" nonsense mate - we have all seen your daily/hourly posts that are 10000000% anti-monk

 

 

[Jim]

1 minute ago, @owlstalk said:

 

 

    

Incredible claims mate

Check your posting history

You know... the 23429369 anti-monk threads you post EVERY SINGLE DAY

Every single post is anti-Monk

Don't patronise us with the 'I'm not anti-monk'  and "I hope he proves me wrong" and "I hope he turns it round" nonsense mate - we have all seen your daily/hourly posts that are 10000000% anti-monk

 

 

 

My posts are consistent with me not rating him and not bring a fan of him. I’m sure I’ve never said I hate him but if you can show me where I have then I bow to your greater knowledge and apologise.

 

And I want him to do well, of course I do he’s here. If he doesn’t do well, we’re down but you and others will probably blame the Chairman.

 

And as for patronising anybody that’s the last thing I want to do but I feel at times some posters can post what they want and me and some others always get ours picked apart? It’d be a very boring discussion site if everyone agreed on everything.

[parajack]

5 hours ago, Jim said:

We were seconds away from

picking up 7 points from twelve which would’ve had us on a total better than the -6 I thought we needed going into the international break. We’re on -7.

 

That just about sums up Monk’s time here so far. We show some signs of improvement or something or other but we always seem to come up short. And that’s what happens when you play the percentages rather than giving it a real go at the opposition and leaving everything on the pitch win, lose or draw.

 

I noticed a post referring to Stuart Gray’s time in charge and DC’s decision

to let him go. As solid as were under Gray, our home form certainly from a goalscoring perspective mirrors Monk’s home record now. You have to wonder why he’s still in this job? Is it the points deduction? the pandemic?

 

I don’t want to see him fail contrary to what some might think on here. I want to him to succeed at least in keeping us up this season. But do I feel he will go on to achieve DC’s stated aim of promotion to the premier league? No I don’t. When fans do return to S6, the crowds eventually will show a decrease as no one will want to pay the prices to watch Monk’s style of football. 

 

Some will put up with it, if we’re getting good results but the plain fact is, we aren’t. Whoever comes in after Monk will have a harder job than the one Monk

originally had IMO?

Some fair points Jim,but like some others i feel your post loses way when you start comparing 'monks record'....his record..I do not myself believe adding last seasons stats,is either fair,or gives us an accurate reflection of monk.

 

Without firing(unfair?) bullets there is a reason why Weaver & Bullen are now with the under 23s, (not saying there is any fault with Weaver or Bullen, both been excellent club servants   but has blame or responsibility been attached to them? are they seen as part of the problem at S6?)

Monk had to deal with issues at S6 that no previous manager has had to....Embargo,points deduction pending which if applied last season could have relegated us.

No back room staff of his own,and alleged 'antics' & bad attitude from some players.A season suspended/restarted and key players refusing to play...

What other manager in the division,let alone at S6 has faced that? ALL faced the Covid 19 issues,but the rest?...How on earth is it fair,as many do on here,to blame the last season collapse  on monk? & drag up the meaningless stats & add to this season?

 

Look at the effect the potential leaving of Struber is having on the Barnsley squad?

 

The only fair way to assess monk is this season,and that means showing some patience,& giving him time

 

We will all have our answer than...............