Guest Posted October 3, 2020 Share Posted October 3, 2020 I feel sorry for people who think the concern with monk is just from today's game 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morepork Posted October 3, 2020 Share Posted October 3, 2020 I too don’t like the overreactions, at the same time those reactions are attributable to so much more than today’s game. The circumstances under Monks tenure have been beyond difficult that has to be acknowledged. However, the record of results is beyond dire and that too must be acknowledged. Ultimately, you can’t escape the stats and the stats say he’s still employed because we are probably the only team across the leagues that would accept this. Of course he had terrible luck today but that is football. Results not the circumstances behind them are what ultimately matters, not fairness and good fortune. The last three games are really the reason I can’t feel “confident” about this season under Monk, only a fool would. I remain hopeful they can get some traction but let’s be honest the numbers suggest otherwise. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
full fathom five Posted October 3, 2020 Share Posted October 3, 2020 3 hours ago, Greengrass said: All the people, living life in peace. Very apt 80 years Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Posted October 3, 2020 Author Share Posted October 3, 2020 17 minutes ago, Morepork said: I too don’t like the overreactions, at the same time those reactions are attributable to so much more than today’s game. The circumstances under Monks tenure have been beyond difficult that has to be acknowledged. However, the record of results is beyond dire and that too must be acknowledged. Ultimately, you can’t escape the stats and the stats say he’s still employed because we are probably the only team across the leagues that would accept this. Of course he had terrible luck today but that is football. Results not the circumstances behind them are what ultimately matters, not fairness and good fortune. The last three games are really the reason I can’t feel “confident” about this season under Monk, only a fool would. I remain hopeful they can get some traction but let’s be honest the numbers suggest otherwise. It’s a new season....we’ve lost one league game....1....that’s the same as Man City, Arsenal, Tottenham and Man United....the same as or better than all but 5 in our division hardly melt down time 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morepork Posted October 3, 2020 Share Posted October 3, 2020 1 minute ago, Ian said: It’s a new season....we’ve lost one league game....1....that’s the same as Man City, Arsenal, Tottenham and Man United....the same as or better than all but 5 in our division hardly melt down time I’m not condoning meltdown, I’m saying there is plenty of evidence to suggest there is reason for legitimate concern. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Posted October 3, 2020 Author Share Posted October 3, 2020 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Morepork said: I’m not condoning meltdown, I’m saying there is plenty of evidence to suggest there is reason for legitimate concern. I’m all ears....based on this season, with new players and Monks own choices as coaches etc and without reference to previous seasons what is the evidence to give reason for that concern? Edited October 3, 2020 by Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morepork Posted October 3, 2020 Share Posted October 3, 2020 3 minutes ago, Ian said: I’m all ears....based on this season, with new players and Monks own choices as coaches etc and without reference to previous seasons what is the evidence to give reason for that concern? You’re all ears....if you want to debate anything with me you can drop the sarcasm. The notion that any discussion around the current season concerns has to be on the proviso that the previous season is excluded is neither realistic or fair. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emilianenko Posted October 3, 2020 Share Posted October 3, 2020 7 minutes ago, Ian said: I’m all ears....based on this season, with new players and Monks own choices as coaches etc and without reference to previous seasons what is the evidence to give reason for that concern? We've already had 3 different strike partnerships in 4 games. Dropping players unnecessarily who were doing okay. Lack of creativity or even some sort of style of play. Alienating players already. Rubbish substitutions. Lack of tempo at home games. Only playing okay for one half. These are all too familiar traits. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Posted October 3, 2020 Author Share Posted October 3, 2020 17 minutes ago, Morepork said: You’re all ears....if you want to debate anything with me you can drop the sarcasm. The notion that any discussion around the current season concerns has to be on the proviso that the previous season is excluded is neither realistic or fair. no sarcasm intended but the notion that you cant discount last season seems a bit strange. Does that mean united are doing ok then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 3, 2020 Share Posted October 3, 2020 (edited) 35 minutes ago, Ian said: no sarcasm intended but the notion that you cant discount last season seems a bit strange. Does that mean united are doing ok then? I would imagine it gives their manager a little more time because he has proved what he is capable of over the course of a season. Our manager of the course of last season took us on a downward spiral after a good start and we are playing much the same way this season. Our defence has tightened up but we offer little if any threat, doubt many teams have had less shots on target than us this season and if any team has scored less goals at home than us this year then they must be a painful watch. The notion that you should write off any spell of the reign of a manager at a club is more strange. Edited October 3, 2020 by Guest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Posted October 3, 2020 Author Share Posted October 3, 2020 3 minutes ago, hirstyboywonder said: I would imagine it gives their manager a little more time because he has proved what he is capable of over the course of a season. Our manager of the course of last season took us on a downward spiral after a good start and we are playing much the same way this season. Our defence has tightened up but we offer little if any threat, doubt many teams have had less shots on target than us this season and if any team has scored less goals at home than us this year then they must be a painful watch. The notion that you should write off any spell of the reign of a manager at a club is more strange. theres nothing strange about judging a manager after his first pre season with his own players and own staff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daz Posted October 3, 2020 Share Posted October 3, 2020 I’m so inspired by our home performances that I’m inviting the Insomniacs Society to the next home game. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 3, 2020 Share Posted October 3, 2020 Just now, Ian said: theres nothing strange about judging a manager after his first pre season with his own players and own staff So we can't judge how he worked previously with Dawson, Bannan, Reach, Lees, Iorfa, Harris, Luongo etc as they aren't his players? managers get brought into clubs all the time and have to work with what they have got. That's the point of bringing a new manager in, to improve things. We might as well have stuck with Bullen last season if Monk couldn't be judged on working with them. Very strange. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Posted October 3, 2020 Author Share Posted October 3, 2020 1 minute ago, hirstyboywonder said: So we can't judge how he worked previously with Dawson, Bannan, Reach, Lees, Iorfa, Harris, Luongo etc as they aren't his players? managers get brought into clubs all the time and have to work with what they have got. That's the point of bringing a new manager in, to improve things. We might as well have stuck with Bullen last season if Monk couldn't be judged on working with them. Very strange. You can judge on how you want....but most managers arent judged until they have had chance to bring their own players and staff in and have a pre season with them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomtheOwl95 Posted October 3, 2020 Share Posted October 3, 2020 I keep seeing this about the last 26 games. Seasons don't roll over, judge Monk from the start of this season. The overreaction on here is embarrassing. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pazowl55 Posted October 3, 2020 Share Posted October 3, 2020 6 minutes ago, TomtheOwl95 said: I keep seeing this about the last 26 games. Seasons don't roll over, judge Monk from the start of this season. The overreaction on here is embarrassing. Exactly. If United lose there next 5 games say, Wilder will be sacked, they wont care about how brilliant last season was for them. They will just judge he ain't up to the job now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morepork Posted October 3, 2020 Share Posted October 3, 2020 4 minutes ago, TomtheOwl95 said: I keep seeing this about the last 26 games. Seasons don't roll over, judge Monk from the start of this season. The overreaction on here is embarrassing. I don't condone the overreaction nor do I condone dismissing the second half of last season like it never happened. You are right, seasons don't roll over but managerial records do and right now a win ratio of 31.2% puts Monk below Jos. That's not an opinion its just a fact. There is still some time for Monk, there have been some encouraging signs but equally the home form and conceding of late goals are demons that need exorcising asap. I will be the first to agree that Monk took a difficult job in sh!te circumstances but that's football. If we get to the end of the season and are relegated with this manager nobody on here will be able to say we didn't have ample warning backed up by hard facts and statistics that the likelihood of that happening was more than high. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomtheOwl95 Posted October 3, 2020 Share Posted October 3, 2020 3 minutes ago, pazowl55 said: Exactly. If United lose there next 5 games say, Wilder will be sacked, they wont care about how brilliant last season was for them. They will just judge he ain't up to the job now. Indeed. It's a weird phenomenon that's come into football analysis that makes little sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomtheOwl95 Posted October 4, 2020 Share Posted October 4, 2020 1 minute ago, Morepork said: I don't condone the overreaction nor do I condone dismissing the second half of last season like it never happened. You are right, seasons don't roll over but managerial records do and right now a win ratio of 31.2% puts Monk below Jos. That's not an opinion its just a fact. There is still some time for Monk, there have been some encouraging signs but equally the home form and conceding of late goals are demons that need exorcising asap. I will be the first to agree that Monk took a difficult job in sh!te circumstances but that's football. If we get to the end of the season and are relegated with this manager nobody on here will be able to say we didn't have ample warning backed up by hard facts and statistics that the likelihood of that happening was more than high. Nobody is doing, but seasons don't roll over. That's fact, don't get me wrong the 2nd half of last season was dreadful, there is good reason to suggest lockdown saved us from the drop and allowed us to regroup enough to stay up. Win ratios are a nonsense in these kind of discussions, both Monk and Jos had bad things to put up with, Jos for me didn't help himself with the way he carried himself. Monk I think has more about him. If we do go down and he's still in the job at Derby on May the 8th, I'd say Monk won't be here on the opening day of 21/22. Not saying he's perfect, not saying he'll be the next great Wednesday manager. But he deserves more than 4 games with his own squad and staff. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daz Posted October 4, 2020 Share Posted October 4, 2020 Well we need about 17 wins and we’re already falling behind given 1 win in 4, so it’s hard not to be concerned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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