Pickford really has lost his MOJO

[Ever the pessimist]

3 hours ago, mattitheowl said:

 

You say that, but actually in a game, how many times is a keeper needed to make a save or stop a goal scoring opportunity?  maybe 10?  But how many times does he restart a possession?  It could be 50+!

 

Now granted if your defence is awful you probably need a better stopper than distributer, but to overlook it is naive.

But preventing them scoring is not just shot stopping: claiming crosses, commanding your area etc all contribute.

Playing out from the back can, admittedly keep the ball from your opponent and therefore prevent them scoring. Too often (in my opinion) it does the opposite.

[mattitheowl]

Just now, Ever the pessimist said:

But preventing them scoring is not just shot stopping: claiming crosses, commanding your area etc all contribute.

Playing out from the back can, admittedly keep the ball from your opponent and therefore prevent them scoring. Too often (in my opinion) it does the opposite.

 

That's what I meant, I was referring to the keeper as a "stopper" in the colloquial sense.

 

And for every catch or claim there will be a point of distribution, add in every time a defender goes back to the keeper and every goal kick, off side free kick and other free kick in the defensive third and you'll find they spend a fair amount more time distributing than "being a keeper" in the strictest sense.

 

In the Leicester - West Ham game the other day, both keepers had more touches each than Jamie Vardey in the whole game! 

[Ever the pessimist]

2 minutes ago, mattitheowl said:

 

That's what I meant, I was referring to the keeper as a "stopper" in the colloquial sense.

 

And for every catch or claim there will be a point of distribution, add in every time a defender goes back to the keeper and every goal kick, off side free kick and other free kick in the defensive third and you'll find they spend a fair amount more time distributing than "being a keeper" in the strictest sense.

 

In the Leicester - West Ham game the other day, both keepers had more touches each than Jamie Vardey in the whole game! 

True. Look, my lad’s under 11 team make a point of playing out from the back - when it works it’s glorious, at times it doesn’t and they concede. That’s fine as at 10 years old they are developing and it’ll make them more comfortable on the ball, make better decisions etc.

If, however, the professional team I support does it and frequently gets caught out I’d have a different view. I would at least want a plan B!

 

As it happens, knowing have woeful the likes of city are defensively, I would try a good old fashioned lump to the centre forward and him to flick it onto runners. I know there must be a reason against that or someone far more astute than I would have done it by now. I just think people need to remember there’s no extra points for artistic merit.

 

[mattitheowl]

4 minutes ago, Ever the pessimist said:

True. Look, my lad’s under 11 team make a point of playing out from the back - when it works it’s glorious, at times it doesn’t and they concede. That’s fine as at 10 years old they are developing and it’ll make them more comfortable on the ball, make better decisions etc.

If, however, the professional team I support does it and frequently gets caught out I’d have a different view. I would at least want a plan B!

 

As it happens, knowing have woeful the likes of city are defensively, I would try a good old fashioned lump to the centre forward and him to flick it onto runners. I know there must be a reason against that or someone far more astute than I would have done it by now. I just think people need to remember there’s no extra points for artistic merit.

 

 

Simple, the %s of balls retained in that situation are woeful.  Even teams who give away the odd goal from a ballsed up "play from the back" will be far more successful than those who just lump it up and hope the centre forward a) wins the header and then b) someone gets on the end and retains possession and c) the rest of the team can then catch up in support.

[Ever the pessimist]

1 hour ago, mattitheowl said:

 

Simple, the %s of balls retained in that situation are woeful.  Even teams who give away the odd goal from a ballsed up "play from the back" will be far more successful than those who just lump it up and hope the centre forward a) wins the header and then b) someone gets on the end and retains possession and c) the rest of the team can then catch up in support.

I have no doubt you’re right, and even the girls’ under 11s I coach are a little more sophisticated than the big, hopeful boot forward (indeed, at that level the opposition have to start in their own half to kind of facilitate it), but think there must be a middle ground. In fact, Pickford, who we started talking about, was initially hailed for his long passing. That, by all accounts, has declined notably.

[mattitheowl]

13 minutes ago, Ever the pessimist said:

I have no doubt you’re right, and even the girls’ under 11s I coach are a little more sophisticated than the big, hopeful boot forward (indeed, at that level the opposition have to start in their own half to kind of facilitate it), but think there must be a middle ground. In fact, Pickford, who we started talking about, was initially hailed for his long passing. That, by all accounts, has declined notably.

 

By no means am I defending Pickford here.  He's been a bomb scare for a while now.  What I'm saying is I understand why a manager might go with a keeper who is a much better distributer than one who is slightly better at shot stopping (or traditional "keeper" roles). It's absolutely a balance (otherwise you'd have Bannan in net) but distribution has to be a part of the modern game.

[Guest]

8 hours ago, mattitheowl said:

 

By no means am I defending Pickford here.  He's been a bomb scare for a while now.  What I'm saying is I understand why a manager might go with a keeper who is a much better distributer than one who is slightly better at shot stopping (or traditional "keeper" roles). It's absolutely a balance (otherwise you'd have Bannan in net) but distribution has to be a part of the modern game.

 

Not many denying the increased importance of a keeper having good distribution.

 

This thread is about Pickford though, a keeper who over the past year or more has dropped crosses and let shots he should save go through his hands.

 

I suppose in a roundabout way he does help his team keep possession as his team has the ball in the centre circle after many of his mistakes! 

[mattitheowl]

14 hours ago, hirstyboywonder said:

 

Not many denying the increased importance of a keeper having good distribution.

 

This thread is about Pickford though, a keeper who over the past year or more has dropped crosses and let shots he should save go through his hands.

 

I suppose in a roundabout way he does help his team keep possession as his team has the ball in the centre circle after many of his mistakes! 

 

Brilliant, glad you took that one post in the context of the back and forth that was going on...