dewsburyowl58 Posted October 2, 2020 Share Posted October 2, 2020 2 hours ago, rickygoo said: He isn't Lev Yashin. He might not even be Bob Bolder any more. His time may well be up here. He may be the best, second best, third best goalie on the books currently but at his peak he was our best, most consistent keeper for many years. I just think he deserves a bit more respect than he's been getting from some on here regardless of whether he should be in the team or not. Exactly this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
parajack Posted October 2, 2020 Share Posted October 2, 2020 2 hours ago, rickygoo said: And then he made decisions that meant everything fell apart. It's like when my kids were young and they were colouring in - it started off lovely and in between the lines and it ended up a right mess. The end result was a mess. So you do accept than,that our success in the first half of the season was down to the manager?if by the same logic,you hold him responsible for the collapse in the second? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
parajack Posted October 2, 2020 Share Posted October 2, 2020 2 hours ago, Ellis Rimmer said: So then it can be argued that Monk has been put at a level where he is not effective at as surely one of the main roles of the manage is to handle people that are disruptive. If you have parts of your workforce that you need to freeze out surely this doesn't look good as a manager? it's a worst case scenario. Other managers could handle this player. elaborate please? Well I think dropping a key figure in the defence was quite pivotal Elaborate?? whats not to understand? read your own comments Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
parajack Posted October 2, 2020 Share Posted October 2, 2020 1 hour ago, Ellis Rimmer said: Ok a journalist you all know and respect has PM'ed me, and said i'm exactly right. He said Owlstalk,@parajack @tomhollywood and anyone else that contradicted me are wrong just like Monk is to leave Westwood out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick_Turpin Posted October 2, 2020 Share Posted October 2, 2020 2 minutes ago, parajack said: So you do accept than,that our success in the first half of the season was down to the manager?if by the same logic,you hold him responsible for the collapse in the second? Accept? It's not a court of law. Who knows? The success and collapse could have been because of him or in spite of him - so many variables. What I do know is in terms of performances that second half of the season was as dire as it gets. Losing Fletcher was unlucky. Losing Westwood and Hutch less so. The players didn't turn up and he couldn't motivate them - who knows where the blame lies. I think we should give him time - I'm not in the supposed lynch mob but I don't have high hopes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pablo Bonvin Posted October 2, 2020 Share Posted October 2, 2020 Has he gone yet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
parajack Posted October 2, 2020 Share Posted October 2, 2020 17 minutes ago, rickygoo said: I'm not fussed either way. I think based on last season's performances and results Westwood stillhas a good claim to be worthy of being our number one - not the best in the division but the best at S6 - but that's a judgement call and is based on last season. Monk will live or die by decisions like these - he's probably already in intensive care but he may pull through. However, nastiness towards a player who has given us good service and was our best keeper for a long time is, I think, an indication of a lack of class amongst some members of the fanbase. It doesn't surprise me but there you go. world of difference between 'nastiness' & 'fair comment'.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
parajack Posted October 2, 2020 Share Posted October 2, 2020 5 minutes ago, rickygoo said: Accept? It's not a court of law. Who knows? The success and collapse could have been because of him or in spite of him - so many variables. What I do know is in terms of performances that second half of the season was as dire as it gets. Losing Fletcher was unlucky. Losing Westwood and Hutch less so. The players didn't turn up and he couldn't motivate them - who knows where the blame lies. I think we should give him time - I'm not in the supposed lynch mob but I don't have high hopes. Who knows where the blame lies but Monk couldnt motivate them? your facing both ways..nothing to do with law Courts... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick_Turpin Posted October 2, 2020 Share Posted October 2, 2020 Monk has had 4 managerial jobs before us. He's been sacked from 3 of them and fallen out with people along the way. He's won no promotions from this division. He's been steady. I'll take steady for now given where Chansiri has put us, but ultimately we'll need more than steady to go to the next level. Let's hope he can reach levels he's failed to do so far in The Championship. Do managers ever do that - suddenly become world beaters in their fifth job after relative mediocrity? I have no idea. His record of non-achievement and falling out with people doesn't make me automatically side with him if there are disputes with players. My mind is open - I'm not siding with Westwood either. But right or wrong I enjoyed watching Westwood play and thank him for all those clean sheets. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick_Turpin Posted October 2, 2020 Share Posted October 2, 2020 Just now, parajack said: Who knows where the blame lies but Monk couldnt motivate them? your facing both ways..nothing to do with law Courts... I'm "facing both ways" because I don't know where the truth lies. Maybe the manager and the players are as poo as each other. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick_Turpin Posted October 2, 2020 Share Posted October 2, 2020 6 minutes ago, parajack said: world of difference between 'nastiness' & 'fair comment'.. Nasty can be fair comment. You may be ugly but I wouldn't say that about you as it would be nasty - no matter how accurate it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devonstrix Posted October 2, 2020 Share Posted October 2, 2020 Surely, one reason for the second half of the season collapse could be (among others) that Westwood's mates in the first team squad also spat dummy out to a degree, in response to his being dropped. We all know that he was allegedly not the only difficult character in that squad don’t we. That’s just as likely an explanation as Monk being good or lucky in the first half of the season and then just ran out of ideas for the second half. Having one trouble maker in a small group is bad enough. Having three or four is potentially disastrous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Willow Owl Posted October 2, 2020 Share Posted October 2, 2020 45 minutes ago, rickygoo said: Talk me through Garry Monk and chairmen. Relevance!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick_Turpin Posted October 2, 2020 Share Posted October 2, 2020 Just now, Willow Owl said: Relevance!! People are saying get rid of Westwood because he falls out with people and we have employed a manager who, apparently, does exactly the same. If there's no smoke without fire it applies to Mardy Monk as much as Whingey Westwood. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Willow Owl Posted October 2, 2020 Share Posted October 2, 2020 5 minutes ago, rickygoo said: People are saying get rid of Westwood because he falls out with people and we have employed a manager who, apparently, does exactly the same. If there's no smoke without fire it applies to Mardy Monk as much as Whingey Westwood. Take that up with them !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FinnishOwl Posted October 2, 2020 Share Posted October 2, 2020 For some reason, quite a few players have been attracted here by Monk. Don't see many offers for Westwood, and didn't see many for Hutch or FF either. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick_Turpin Posted October 2, 2020 Share Posted October 2, 2020 Just now, Willow Owl said: Take that up with them !! Wha are "them"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Willow Owl Posted October 2, 2020 Share Posted October 2, 2020 34 minutes ago, rickygoo said: Monk has had 4 managerial jobs before us. He's been sacked from 3 of them and fallen out with people along the way. He's won no promotions from this division. He's been steady. I'll take steady for now given where Chansiri has put us, but ultimately we'll need more than steady to go to the next level. Let's hope he can reach levels he's failed to do so far in The Championship. Do managers ever do that - suddenly become world beaters in their fifth job after relative mediocrity? I have no idea. His record of non-achievement and falling out with people doesn't make me automatically side with him if there are disputes with players. My mind is open - I'm not siding with Westwood either. But right or wrong I enjoyed watching Westwood play and thank him for all those clean sheets. He also kept Swansea in the premier league. Managed them in Europe, and took them to 8th in the Premier league ( best position ever).They also spent time at the top of the premier league and did the double over Man Utd and Arsenal in the same season. Something none of our managers over the last 20 years has achieved. He managed Leeds to their best position for years and resigned the day before the club wanted to activate an extension to his contract. He also saved Birmingham from relegation. In the following season changed the whole culture of the club while working under an embargo and took them to seventh in the league. Points deduction followed and he still kept them up on a shoestring budget. Fell out with the chairman because he felt they weren’t all on the same page and they had sold Jota. He left Birmingham. Took over at Middlesbrough a club in turmoil, spent money. It didn’t work out and was sacked. Not really as bad a record as some make out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darra Posted October 2, 2020 Share Posted October 2, 2020 On 01/10/2020 at 10:19, the_vinyl_frontier said: Yet another Monk fkup. We are in need of a decent first team keeper and we have one in Westwood. Why can't Monk get over himself and start playing him Probably for the same reasons other managers haven't played him including the Republic of Ireland manager who played the Millwall keeper who wasn't even playing in goal for Millwall at the time. People need to look at the bigger picture. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Willow Owl Posted October 2, 2020 Share Posted October 2, 2020 12 minutes ago, rickygoo said: Wha are "them"? You’ve lost me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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