@owlstalk Posted October 2, 2020 Author Share Posted October 2, 2020 Just now, rickygoo said: Only two of those are questions. I didn't say at any point all the lines were questions Owlstalk Shop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
@owlstalk Posted October 2, 2020 Author Share Posted October 2, 2020 "He's the best keeper in the Championship" they cry If that's true where are all the clubs that would want to sign him? Maybe even a lower premier league club would show interest in the 'best keeper in the championship' and could afford his wages SO WHERE ARE ALL THESE CLUBS TO BUY THE 'BEST KEEPER IN THE CHAMPIONSHIP' ? Owlstalk Shop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick_Turpin Posted October 2, 2020 Share Posted October 2, 2020 Just now, @owlstalk said: I didn't say at any point all the lines were questions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
parajack Posted October 2, 2020 Share Posted October 2, 2020 1 hour ago, Ellis Rimmer said: No it happened twice and neither can say they were right to do it seeing as results get worse when he's out and better when he is in Again we keep hearing that it's good to get rid of trouble makers but I don't care how much of a happy environment the Wednesday dressing room is and how much the players love each other I am concerned about us winning and with him we win more The point is that he hasn't done anything that bad, he's not beat anyone up, racially abused anyone, got anyone drunk and forced them to drive. It seems he has just had a disagreement with Monk. Monk has not moved forward. He is only in a job because DC is very patient Results>workplace harmony ZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellis Rimmer Posted October 2, 2020 Share Posted October 2, 2020 4 minutes ago, parajack said: Ignorent post in my view, & obviously done by some one with little if any management experience...why? because anyone with mngt experience would have recognized the reality expressed in that post..... What did i learn from management? when ever you deal with 'people' the one thing you can always rely on,is that some will let you down(and themselves) its how you deal with that,which is what makes a difference.Alleged 'toxic' influences rarely,if ever change,or can be changed. Result? you have to limit their influence on others, & set an example..'pour encourage les autre' again I refer you to our league position of number 3 before Monk had his fantastic management idea Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellis Rimmer Posted October 2, 2020 Share Posted October 2, 2020 1 minute ago, @owlstalk said: "He's the best keeper in the Championship" they cry If that's true where are all the clubs that would want to sign him? Maybe even a lower premier league club would show interest in the 'best keeper in the championship' and could afford his wages SO WHERE ARE ALL THESE CLUBS TO BUY THE 'BEST KEEPER IN THE CHAMPIONSHIP' ? You're loving a strawman argument today, nobody has argued he's the best keep in the championship. If it's not a strawman argument go directly quote these people. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
parajack Posted October 2, 2020 Share Posted October 2, 2020 1 hour ago, Ellis Rimmer said: Yes I know what you mean. What I would do if I was Monk at the time would be continue to play him and look to sell him, he's easier to sell if he's playing. Now if he's not bought and his form stayed poor I would swap him in for the other keeps and when their form became bad again bring Westwood back in for another run. Eventually we may get to the nice position of knowing definitevely that Dawson is better than Westwood. However as he just froze him out we are left with this odd situation where we have an enigma who doesn't get to play at the frustration of many fans. You can not as a manager in any industry lead,in a situation where a person/ player is allegedly 'disruptive' you lose all authority and credibility,with the workforce...If you had ever managed,you would know this. Football as an industry,is no different.... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
parajack Posted October 2, 2020 Share Posted October 2, 2020 3 minutes ago, Ellis Rimmer said: again I refer you to our league position of number 3 before Monk had his fantastic management idea And i refer you,to the fact that you and others always ignore....Who was manager at that time? whose coaching,team selection,tactics,& substitutions got us to that point?: You just hoisted yourself on your own pitard.... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inspector Lestrade Posted October 2, 2020 Share Posted October 2, 2020 1 minute ago, @owlstalk said: 10 minutes ago, @owlstalk said: Why aren't the Westwood lovers able to answer these simple questions? If Westwood wanted to play football he could move elsewhere He would be paid far less money and he is nearing retirement and needs to make hay whilst he can,he has a family to look after not just his own needs. If Westwood was that good clubs would be lining up to buy/loan him To expensive If Westwood was that good for a club numerous managers wouldn't have frozen him right out of the entire picture Maybe the managers should be looking at themselves. If Westwood could be put into a first team and immediately improve things and get results why aren't clubs wanting him? I'm not making that claim, we have the right keepers playing. If Westwood didn't have a reputation within football circles why did Chris Kirkland say he definitely DOES? Whose saying he doesn't have a reputation? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomhollywood Posted October 2, 2020 Share Posted October 2, 2020 6 minutes ago, Ellis Rimmer said: again I refer you to our league position of number 3 before Monk had his fantastic management idea So you're pinning the entire second half of the season on one decision to drop Westwood? What about injuries, general loss of form with players (it happens, that's when the squad comes into play). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GLOwl Posted October 2, 2020 Share Posted October 2, 2020 13 minutes ago, rickygoo said: Only two of those are questions. Technically there are 3 with the opening question Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick_Turpin Posted October 2, 2020 Share Posted October 2, 2020 8 minutes ago, parajack said: You can not as a manager in any industry lead,in a situation where a person/ player is allegedly 'disruptive' you lose all authority and credibility,with the workforce...If you had ever managed,you would know this. Football as an industry,is no different.... But Bullen, Bruce, Gary and Carlos all thought otherwise re Westwood - and Hutchinson. I'm not saying Monk is wrong to promote Dawson and Wildsmith - although last year's results after he was dropped aren't helpful to the Westwood-haters - just wonder why people can't be a bit nicer about it all. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick_Turpin Posted October 2, 2020 Share Posted October 2, 2020 5 minutes ago, parajack said: And i refer you,to the fact that you and others always ignore....Who was manager at that time? whose coaching,team selection,tactics,& substitutions got us to that point?: You just hoisted yourself on your own pitard.... And then he made decisions that meant everything fell apart. It's like when my kids were young and they were colouring in - it started off lovely and in between the lines and it ended up a right mess. The end result was a mess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick_Turpin Posted October 2, 2020 Share Posted October 2, 2020 5 minutes ago, tomhollywood said: So you're pinning the entire second half of the season on one decision to drop Westwood? What about injuries, general loss of form with players (it happens, that's when the squad comes into play). Dave Richards was a hero once. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomhollywood Posted October 2, 2020 Share Posted October 2, 2020 1 minute ago, rickygoo said: Dave Richards was a hero once. Sorry, I don't follow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick_Turpin Posted October 2, 2020 Share Posted October 2, 2020 Just now, tomhollywood said: Sorry, I don't follow. People start off well/get lucky and then make mistakes that you can't pin on any one else. Monk probably wasn't unlucky in the 2nd half of last season - he was just a bit poo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GLOwl Posted October 2, 2020 Share Posted October 2, 2020 It was absolutely right to drop Westwood during last season as he had made several blunders. Irrespective of whether he has a bad character amongst the squad ( my suspicion is that he was given his Mardy tantrums). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GLOwl Posted October 2, 2020 Share Posted October 2, 2020 Just now, rickygoo said: People start off well/get lucky and then make mistakes that you can't pin on any one else. Monk probably wasn't unlucky in the 2nd half of last season - he was just a bit poo. So GM was lucky to get us to 3rd but poo thereafter! Unbelievable Jeff! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick_Turpin Posted October 2, 2020 Share Posted October 2, 2020 1 minute ago, GLOwl said: So GM was lucky to get us to 3rd but poo thereafter! Unbelievable Jeff! I didn't definitively say he was lucky - I think he did well actually. And I don't think he was unlucky in the 2nd half of the season. I thought he was crap. But anything is possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellis Rimmer Posted October 2, 2020 Share Posted October 2, 2020 18 minutes ago, parajack said: You can not as a manager in any industry lead,in a situation where a person/ player is allegedly 'disruptive' you lose all authority and credibility,with the workforce...If you had ever managed,you would know this. Football as an industry,is no different.... So then it can be argued that Monk has been put at a level where he is not effective at as surely one of the main roles of the manage is to handle people that are disruptive. If you have parts of your workforce that you need to freeze out surely this doesn't look good as a manager? it's a worst case scenario. Other managers could handle this player. 14 minutes ago, parajack said: And i refer you,to the fact that you and others always ignore....Who was manager at that time? whose coaching,team selection,tactics,& substitutions got us to that point?: You just hoisted yourself on your own pitard.... elaborate please? 13 minutes ago, tomhollywood said: So you're pinning the entire second half of the season on one decision to drop Westwood? What about injuries, general loss of form with players (it happens, that's when the squad comes into play). Well I think dropping a key figure in the defence was quite pivotal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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