shezzas left peg Posted September 24, 2020 Share Posted September 24, 2020 The one thing Dc has had the money and done since he came is put cash into our accadamy, something I don't think we've really bothered and neglected youth development in over 30 years, hence why the dark side were getting all the kids coming through and we got nothing. It's just now beginning to bear fruit, and we're possibly beginning to see the start of a few lads coming through, Penney, hunt, there's hagan too. We topped the under 18s two seasons running. Big Premier league teams like man City have been poaching our academy staff a well, so we must be doing something right. We've also started taking kids like hagan, West and Roberts from premier leagues youth teams. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GLOwl Posted September 24, 2020 Share Posted September 24, 2020 1 hour ago, Dot said: Kevin Pressman and Steven Haslam both played in the top tier, I'm sure there are others too. Not superstars I know but hey ho Pressman was a top keeper, in his prime he was easily in the top 5 in the prem. 3 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Quist Posted September 24, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted September 24, 2020 For a number of years our Academy was run down and did not produce. However it has now started to function again and we have seen several players show promise whilst playing for the side. It has to be realised that turning an Academy round is not an overnight thing. It takes years for players to come through. In addition the Academy at one point had bad reputation which would have deterred some individuals coming to Academy. The myth is still being a bad Academy is still peddled by some including in this thread. There has been steady improvement and making statements which are based on situation many years does not help the club in attracting good players to the Academy. The quality of coaching has improved enormously and players we are producing are much better than was the case a few years ago. Another point which was made about the loss of reserve team football is also a factor. The stripping out of top level Academies to play in their own league also denies the lads of playing against better opposition. This will slow development of players we produce. When we can move to top grade of Academy would hope to see us progress again. Brentford spend a fortune on scouting and recruit players at 18/20 from all over Europe it is a model which works well for them. They moved away from Academy structure as they were competing with Chelsea, Arsenal, Tottenham West Ham etc for talent and although lots in area much of it was picked over by time Brentford had its say. Hence there situationis muchdifferent to ours. I think we are in a rich catchment area (United and Leeds have demonstrated this) and although we have to compete with the Manchester clubs. Their Academies do recruit a substantial quantity of players including overseas talent Which has led to young lads leaving them to seek future elsewhere. This willnot be lost on those seeking future in game and we regularly snap up players from City. If you are a young 15 year old with talent you should want to go to a club that will give you a chance to play football at first team level. Think before criticising some understaning of Academy and current position needs to be looked at. 9 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S72 Owl Posted September 24, 2020 Share Posted September 24, 2020 I kind of agree. Have the academy up to under 18s. After that young players need to be loaned out or with the first team. We can then have a reserve team, or B team however you want to put it. We can then arrange games when we want. I know Huddersfield tend to arrange games with a lot of foreign teams too. This can include a few youngsters plus as many first team players as we want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soldierboyblue Posted September 24, 2020 Share Posted September 24, 2020 2 minutes ago, S72 Owl said: I kind of agree. Have the academy up to under 18s. After that young players need to be loaned out or with the first team. We can then have a reserve team, or B team however you want to put it. We can then arrange games when we want. I know Huddersfield tend to arrange games with a lot of foreign teams too. This can include a few youngsters plus as many first team players as we want. This model has worked really well for Huddersfield and their first team is full of youth products. Oh hang on. Our academy is beginning to produce it's now up to the youngsters to prove themselves good enough of first team football and the manager to allow them the route to first team football. The early indicators of both are very positive 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martyn8484 Posted September 24, 2020 Share Posted September 24, 2020 Nathan Modest disagrees! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZicoSterland2 Posted September 24, 2020 Share Posted September 24, 2020 1 hour ago, Dot said: Kevin Pressman and Steven Haslam both played in the top tier, I'm sure there are others too. Not superstars I know but hey ho Ritchie Humphries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FinnishOwl Posted September 24, 2020 Share Posted September 24, 2020 5 minutes ago, S72 Owl said: After that young players need to be loaned out or with the first team. That's where one of our problems is. We don't seem to get enough really competitive matches for the young lads. L1 or L2 would suit them much better development-wise than the U23 fixtures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OWLERTON GHOST Posted September 24, 2020 Share Posted September 24, 2020 39 minutes ago, PARKOWL said: like I said rate them or not that isnt really the issue is it But obviously somebody did rate them for them to have played, also the majority would have got in our team over the last couple of years It was tongue in cheek Parkie ... Compared to any other big teams set up it's a fùcking shocking testimony in nearly 30 years of nurturing talent by the club .... You reap what you sow ..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sultan_Pepper Posted September 24, 2020 Share Posted September 24, 2020 1 hour ago, ny owl said: The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result. Something has to change. Such as putting the academy products on the pitch instead of paying Almen Abdi millions to sit on the bench or in the treatment room. I'd say this season of all seasons is the one where we're looking like we've changed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomo2001 Posted September 24, 2020 Share Posted September 24, 2020 2 hours ago, The_Limit_Owl said: Brentford, Brentford ber-luddy Brentford!!! This obsession some of our fans have with them is bordering on weird! They do have a good business model to be fair Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adelphi1867 Posted September 24, 2020 Share Posted September 24, 2020 2 hours ago, Owls Loyal said: Ny Owl in another thread makes the salutory comment that the SWFC Academy has failed to produce a top tier player in 40 years. Stunning but true. We had a good period under Big Jack and Sgt Wilko when three Premier League standard players came through: Mel Sterland Perter Shirtliffe Mark Smith At that time we also had some good support players who emerged and helped us to get to the top tier: Grant, Taylor, Pearson and Oliver. But since then it has been an appalling drought. Particularly with Covid 19 now is time imo to reward this failure by scrapping the Academy. Four years ago Brentford scapped their Age 8 top Age 20 Academy and introduced an "Elite Development Squad" for players 20-23 in age. They then scouted youngsters around Europe to fill the Elite Squad and contuinue to do so. Time for SWFC to take this decisive action. Like Huddersfied has?. That countermands your Brentford argument. The very reason why we have not produced any young players in the last 40 years is very simple: The club did not invest in any form of youth development in that time, instead wasting money on over hyped and over paid players while we went from the, then, 1st division through the Prem league and into a championship & 1st division yoyo club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adelphi1867 Posted September 24, 2020 Share Posted September 24, 2020 2 hours ago, Bulldog said: That fascination with Brentford again. A team that's spent the last 12 years in the championship (after promotion from league one) yes, a fine example to follow. But they have a very close connection to some Italian club or other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adelphi1867 Posted September 24, 2020 Share Posted September 24, 2020 1 hour ago, TheEnchanter said: Disagree hugely with this. They are traditionally a club that belongs 1-2 divisions below this league. They've levelled up their club on and pff the pitch dramatically aided by a remarkable transfer strategy. They've been able to cement themselves as a Premiership ready club with a new stadium to boot with an admirable self sufficiency from their recruitment model. If we scaled Sheffield Wednesday up to the same successes as Brentford then we'd be on par with a Wolves or Leicester. I'm not saying we should be them or that everything we are doing is wrong because we aren't doing what Brentford are but to dismiss the way they've levelled up as a club just because they haven't made the Prem yet would be pretty narrow minded. Aren't they co-owned by Udinese or summat?. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
striker Posted September 24, 2020 Share Posted September 24, 2020 We had many years, 20+ years neglecting our academy prior to DC, It's a slow burn to turn that round, but think what we've done since DC's tenure has been positive. We've had our u23's winning a trophy and several now in the first team squad. Whether they are all good enough is debatable, but starting to get game time. I think that pathway to the first team, will improve our academy, attractiveness to young players. I think we are right to scout local talent and released players from other academies, particularly PL academies. It's a case of needs must this year, but (and I think there is a plan and will to do so) we should get more players out on loan. It's much more beneficial for young players to play competitive football, than u23 football. Also, while margins lower, also brings in some income re wage contribution. I dont think it's time to scrap the academy, in fact the opposite, we need to invest in youth. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OWLERTON GHOST Posted September 24, 2020 Share Posted September 24, 2020 5 minutes ago, adelphi1867 said: Aren't they co-owned by Udinese or summat?. I think that is Watford ..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S36 OWL Posted September 24, 2020 Share Posted September 24, 2020 I've always been in favour of scrapping the U23's and bringing back the reserve league so the young kids can play alongside and against season pros every week to toughen them up for the first team. They don't get the experience of playing against seasoned pros playing against kids their own age in the U23's. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blatter Posted September 24, 2020 Share Posted September 24, 2020 One of the silliest and short sighted ideas aired on Owlstalk (and there’s been plenty). If you’re not happy about the way something that’s fundamental to the future of the club works,then improve it. Yes it will cost time and money but far less than signing the likes of Abdi, Jones, Boyd, Matias, Melo, Sougou, Lachlan, McGugan, Urby, Bus etc. Money paying that set of deadbeats not to play could have given us a first class academy. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonestown83 Posted September 24, 2020 Share Posted September 24, 2020 A lot of lower league teams scrapped their academies around 5 years ago due to the rule change that was introduced this basically allowed premier league teams to come in and sign their good youngsters for peanuts I believe the figure was something like 150k max for any academy players brentford made the decision at the time that it made financial sense to just sign players a little older and work from there which they’ve done very successfully many others have failed miserably. theres currently around 35 academies operating which means over half the teams in the football league are operating the “Brentford” model I can’t remember any other success stories in regards this approach we seem to have moved more to the bit of both worlds approach bringing in released players from premier league teams. which I feel is the right way to go however with youth players I think it’s 90% luck if any of them go onto make it. if you look back over the England u17 teams over the last 20 years 75% of them you’ve never even heard of but at that time where considered the most promising In the country there’s no surefire route to success with youth but we seem to be moving in the right direction 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Owls Loyal Posted September 24, 2020 Author Share Posted September 24, 2020 I appreciate that many have an emotional attachment to the Academy but Ny Owl's point still stands. SWFC's Academy has not produced a top tier player in 40 years. I shudder at the times I have heard the phrase "We have got some talented youngsters coming through". Anyone here remember the name Simmons. Well, he was billed as the next Jimmy Greaves and he ended up in Non League football! We even heard it under Luhukay two years ago. He launched the likes of Baker, Preston and Kirby and now not one of them is even playing at League One level. Also please consider that DFB is a classic example of what I am proposing. We should scout the fall out of young players with high potential around Europe at 18+ years and bring them to our Elite Developmenmt Squad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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