Tom Lees

[The Chief]

1 hour ago, CalmJimmers said:

 

It is quite literally one of the best ways to measure a central defender. 

 

Having a defender who can pass is all well and good, but if they can't defend then you'll have problems. 

 

So if it's quite literally the best way to measure a central defender then the best defenders in the Premier league last season were:

 

1. Tarkowski

2. Bednarek

3. Mings

4. Fernandez

5. Jonny Evans

 

Okay mate

 

[Guest]

3 hours ago, Willow Owl said:

Totally disagree with the Fulham/ Middlesbrough accusation. You could maybe say he could have done better for Boro’s 1st but name me one of the other 6 that was his fault. Player of the year Iorfa was at fault for more than Lees.

 

 

I didn't say he was solely at fault. The last goal was a joke all round and as an experienced defender his role was very poor. 

[CalmJimmers]

2 minutes ago, The Chief said:

 

So if it's quite literally the best way to measure a central defender then the best defenders in the Premier league last season were:

 

1. Tarkowski

2. Bednarek

3. Mings

4. Fernandez

5. Jonny Evans

 

Okay mate

 

 

One of... 

 

Tarkowski is decent, Jonny Evans has played at the highest level nearly all his career, I concede the other three but they aren't horrific. 

 

Also in the top 10 are Alderweireld, two of dem Blayads that conceded the third least in the division, and Van Dijk. 

[Guest Willow Owl]

45 minutes ago, hirstyboywonder said:

 

I didn't say he was solely at fault. The last goal was a joke all round and as an experienced defender his role was very poor. 

It was Iorfa’s fault if you’re talking about the Boro second goal. What could Lees have done better.  I’m all for criticism when due, but that is very harsh on Lees. The 2 games you have mentioned Iorfa was horrendous but always seems to escape criticism.

 

[McRightSide]

The reason Tom Lees won’t go higher than this level is because - whilst a very solid Championship defender - he offers little beyond that.

 

I’m not even talking about starting attacks or anything like that, but just having the confidence and calmness to retain possession when under pressure. Too often it’s a simple, safety first pass into touch when a little more confidence and ability on the ball would prevent us from turning it over deep in our territory 
 

Safety first is fine, but it’ll only take you so far. Not a criticism, Just an observation...I think he accepts where he’s at too...

Edited September 22, 2020 by McRightSide

[Guest]

8 minutes ago, Willow Owl said:

It was Iorfa’s fault if you’re talking about the Boro second goal. What could Lees have done better.  I’m all for criticism when due, but that is very harsh on Lees. The 2 games you have mentioned Iorfa was horrendous but always seems to escape criticism.

 

 

Iorfa slipped, he may still have recovered to stop the wide player getting in on goal had Lees held his position and marked the goal scorer in the centre of the box where the danger was.

 

Have another look - 

 

 

 

Have a read of the matchday thread, you are in the minority if you think Lees did his job properly.

 

https://www.owlstalk.co.uk/forums/topic/291123-wednesday-v-middlesbrough/page/44/

 

 

[Guest Willow Owl]

27 minutes ago, hirstyboywonder said:

 

Iorfa slipped, he may still have recovered to stop the wide player getting in on goal had Lees held his position and marked the goal scorer in the centre of the box where the danger was.

 

Have another look - 

 

 

 

Have a read of the matchday thread, you are in the minority if you think Lees did his job properly.

 

https://www.owlstalk.co.uk/forums/topic/291123-wednesday-v-middlesbrough/page/44/

 

 

I was a defender and the initial mistake is Iorfa. Lees has to come across and Iorfa should have gone in to cover Lees position but he doesn’t he tries to chase down the guy before realising and then makes a late attempt to get across. If you listen to the commentary you can here the bench shouting at DOM to get in the middle.

 

[Guest]

8 minutes ago, Willow Owl said:

I was a defender and the initial mistake is Iorfa. Lees has to come across and Iorfa should have gone in to cover Lees position but he doesn’t he tries to chase down the guy before realising and then makes a late attempt to get across. If you listen to the commentary you can here the bench shouting at DOM to get in the middle.

 

 

 

They are both at fault. The bench were probably shouting at Iorfa to get into the middle by that point becuase they knew Lees had no chance of turning around.

Lees should only have gone across if he was certain of getting to the ball or preventing a cross. Had he not done so, Iorfa would probably have got back to prevent the player with the ball cutting in on goal and Lees could have stayed with the man in the middle. Poor goal all round, as highlighted in the match day thread.  

[Guest Willow Owl]

4 minutes ago, hirstyboywonder said:

 

 

They are both at fault. The bench were probably shouting at Iorfa to get into the middle by that point becuase they knew Lees had no chance of turning around.

Lees should only have gone across if he was certain of getting to the ball or preventing a cross. Had he not done so, Iorfa would probably have got back to prevent the player with the ball cutting in on goal and Lees could have stayed with the man in the middle. Poor goal all round, as highlighted in the match day thread.  

How can Lees turn round when he is covering Iorfa’s mistake and closing down the attacker. Look at Iorfa’s run he should have busted a gut to get in the middle to cover the position Lees had to leave because of Iorfa’s initial error, he doesn’t he starts to run towards Lees. The bench shout at Iorfa to get in the middle and he realises and tries to get in the middle but it’s too late. Look at Bannan after and who he has a pop at. 
Everyone entitled to their opinion, but as an ex defender that’s Iorfa all day for me.


 

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, Willow Owl said:

How can Lees turn round when he is covering Iorfa’s mistake and closing down the attacker. Look at Iorfa’s run he should have busted a gut to get in the middle to cover the position Lees had to leave because of Iorfa’s initial error, he doesn’t he starts to run towards Lees. The bench shout at Iorfa to get in the middle and he realises and tries to get in the middle but it’s too late. Look at Bannan after and who he has a pop at. 
Everyone entitled to their opinion, but as an ex defender that’s Iorfa all day for me.


 

 

Looking at Bannan I think he aims his anger at Iorfa and Lees, no surprise really as he was shouting at everyone even for his own mistakes last season.

I never said Iorfa wasn't at fault but if you think Lees does everything right in the way it played out then I'm glad I have never had to play in a side that had you at the heart of the defence! 

[Guest Willow Owl]

7 hours ago, hirstyboywonder said:

 

Looking at Bannan I think he aims his anger at Iorfa and Lees, no surprise really as he was shouting at everyone even for his own mistakes last season.

I never said Iorfa wasn't at fault but if you think Lees does everything right in the way it played out then I'm glad I have never had to play in a side that had you at the heart of the defence! 

Iorfa caught way out of position, Lees comes across to cover, Iorfa fails to get back into position, goalkeeper makes error. 
Your theory Tom Lees fault,

You wouldn’t have played as you have no idea how to defend.

That’s me finished with this

 

[Guest]

9 hours ago, Willow Owl said:

Iorfa caught way out of position, Lees comes across to cover, Iorfa fails to get back into position, goalkeeper makes error. 
Your theory Tom Lees fault,

You wouldn’t have played as you have no idea how to defend.

That’s me finished with this

 

 

Not all his fault, just at fault as I keep repeating, as were Iorfa and Wildsmith - as you say, Lees took the decision to come across and cover - and failed to do so miserably leaving the striker with the freedom of the penalty area.

 

Your defensive colleagues are probably now suffering from severe back pain having had to carry you in their team! 

[Guest Willow Owl]

1 minute ago, hirstyboywonder said:

 

Not all his fault, just at fault as I keep repeating, as were Iorfa and Wildsmith - as you say, Lees took the decision to come across and cover - and failed to do so miserably leaving the striker with the freedom of the penalty area.

 

Your defensive colleagues are probably now suffering from severe back pain having had to carry you in their team! 

All about opinions Hirstyboy, As long as you know I was right all along.

[83owl]

Iorfa slipped, lees compounded the error by rushing out and doing absolutely nothing. If you’re going to get dragged out of position that’s fine as long as you do something to influence the play- either hold him up or clean him out. What he did was neither. 

[Guest Willow Owl]

23 minutes ago, 83owl said:

Iorfa slipped, lees compounded the error by rushing out and doing absolutely nothing. If you’re going to get dragged out of position that’s fine as long as you do something to influence the play- either hold him up or clean him out. What he did was neither. 

When taught the basics of defending, you cover for each other. Lees covered for Iorfa and closed down the attacker after Iorfa was 20 yards out of position when he slipped, yet Iorfa failed to get back Into position despite the bench screaming at him. If you think the only error Iorfa made was slipping then I give up.

[83owl]

15 minutes ago, Willow Owl said:

When taught the basics of defending, you cover for each other. Lees covered for Iorfa and closed down the attacker after Iorfa was 20 yards out of position when he slipped, yet Iorfa failed to get back Into position despite the bench screaming at him. If you think the only error Iorfa made was slipping then I give up.

Lees didn’t cover for anything because he ambled out and did nothing. May as well have just stayed in the middle.

[Guest Willow Owl]

36 minutes ago, 83owl said:

Lees didn’t cover for anything because he ambled out and did nothing. May as well have just stayed in the middle.

Unbelievable, Talk me through what Iorfa did ??