Guest Posted September 22, 2020 Share Posted September 22, 2020 2 hours ago, Mr Farrell said: No surprise though. We have been paying far too much for mediocrity. We bought the falsehood that if you want top players you have to pay top money, when instead we ended up paying top money for average players. Flawed model that we finally seemed to have ditched all be it 3 years too late. Forestieri, Westwood, Hutchinson, Hooper etc. Weren't mediocre or average at this level. They helped us get to the play-offs twice, our best 2 seasons in over two decades. The flaw in our model was not selling when they had a market value and refreshing our team. No way would I have given Hutchinson another contract and I wouldn't be at all surprised if his historical injuries have had an impact on where he has now ended up but I would have used him in the second half of last season when we were largely hopeless - unless he did something so bad as to be worthy of terminating his contract, in which case we should have done that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 22, 2020 Share Posted September 22, 2020 31 minutes ago, @owlstalk said: Mate if we paid Ronaldo, Beckham and Pele to play for us you'd expect us to do better with them in the side But if after years of them being at the club we'd achieved NOTHING we can also say that we achieved NOTHING We achieved NOTHING Unless you want to put the playoff final and finishing in the top 5 of the Championship on our honours board? I'd rather finish 6th and 4th than finish in the bottom half every season. Those were the 2 most enjoyable seasons I have had watching us at this level in the past 20 years. Wonder what you thought of those seasons at the time? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
@owlstalk Posted September 22, 2020 Author Share Posted September 22, 2020 Just now, hirstyboywonder said: I'd rather finish 6th and 4th than finish in the bottom half every season. Those were the 2 most enjoyable seasons I have had watching us at this level in the past 20 years. Wonder what you thought of those seasons at the time? Don't quote/reply to me mate Ta Owlstalk Shop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 22, 2020 Share Posted September 22, 2020 58 minutes ago, @owlstalk said: All that money wasted buying, paying them and achieving NOTHING How much did Westwood and Hutchinson cost again? Looking back over their time at Hillsborough I would say we got better value for money from them than others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
@owlstalk Posted September 22, 2020 Author Share Posted September 22, 2020 Just now, hirstyboywonder said: How much did Westwood and Hutchinson cost again? Looking back over their time at Hillsborough I would say we got better value for money from them than others. Don't quote/reply to me mate Ta Owlstalk Shop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 22, 2020 Share Posted September 22, 2020 1 minute ago, @owlstalk said: Don't quote/reply to me mate Ta Once again I'll ask why? I am debating the points raised in the thread and am not being abusive Why have you got a problem with me doing this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soldierboyblue Posted September 22, 2020 Share Posted September 22, 2020 Just now, hirstyboywonder said: I'd rather finish 6th and 4th than finish in the bottom half every season. Those were the 2 most enjoyable seasons I have had watching us at this level in the past 20 years. Wonder what you thought of those seasons at the time? If we had been promoted then I would say achievement. I enjoyed the ride as did everyone else. We fell short and we need to re-build to go again. This time we are focusing on youth, pace and potential re-sale value. DC seems to have heeded the advice and we have a manager who is bringing the players who fit this mould into the club. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SallyCinnamon Posted September 22, 2020 Share Posted September 22, 2020 33 minutes ago, @owlstalk said: Mate if we paid Ronaldo, Beckham and Pele to play for us you'd expect us to do better with them in the side But if after years of them being at the club we'd achieved NOTHING we can also say that we achieved NOTHING We achieved NOTHING Unless you want to put the playoff final and finishing in the top 5 of the Championship on our honours board? Still part of a side which was my favourite since supporting Wednesday. Gave me some of my favourite memories in life. Brighton away, what a corker of an evening. Arsenal at home and Brighton at home will stick with me for a while. Newcastle away the following season too, what a Boxing Day. Yep we achieved nothing. But all we have to shout about over the past 20 years is two promotions from League One. By your logic we shouldn’t respect or remember fondly any ex player of the past 20 or so years because we’ve achieved nothing. In terms of the past 20 years or so both players who you hate so much and the manager you despise gave me some of my best memories following Wednesday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 22, 2020 Share Posted September 22, 2020 Just now, soldierboyblue said: If we had been promoted then I would say achievement. I enjoyed the ride as did everyone else. We fell short and we need to re-build to go again. This time we are focusing on youth, pace and potential re-sale value. DC seems to have heeded the advice and we have a manager who is bringing the players who fit this mould into the club. Completely agree on the need to sell and rebuild and that was the issue I had with our approach. We signed good players on 3 and 4 year contracts with the aim of getting promoted in two years. I expected us to sell and refresh on this basis when we didn't go up - to balance the books and to prevent things going stale. Hammering these players for how their Wednesday careers have concluded ignores the fact they were very good for us for good spells, particularly Westwood and Hutchinson who were key players before Chansiri arrived. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BIG D Posted September 22, 2020 Share Posted September 22, 2020 19 minutes ago, soldierboyblue said: A toxic work environment is just that and does not make for happy workers - irrespective of the industry. Bad apples need to be removed and in this case have been (bar Westwood) But Hutchinson was popular in the dressing room according to a journalist. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soldierboyblue Posted September 22, 2020 Share Posted September 22, 2020 Just now, hirstyboywonder said: Completely agree on the need to sell and rebuild and that was the issue I had with our approach. We signed good players on 3 and 4 year contracts with the aim of getting promoted in two years. I expected us to sell and refresh on this basis when we didn't go up - to balance the books and to prevent things going stale. Hammering these players for how their Wednesday careers have concluded ignores the fact they were very good for us for good spells, particularly Westwood and Hutchinson who were key players before Chansiri arrived. I agree with what you are saying. I'm not hammering any player they have played their part and are now consigned to history. I don't wish any of them anything but success (even Nuihiu). The problems were mainly that the manager let a toxic environment ferment and that DC didn't sell players (although how many we had offers for we will never know). The environment that prevailed was quite possibly the biggest issue at the club and the culture was cited many times as being a huge contributing factor to the current problems on the playing side. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soldierboyblue Posted September 22, 2020 Share Posted September 22, 2020 2 minutes ago, BIG D said: But Hutchinson was popular in the dressing room according to a journalist. I'm not saying he wasn't - only the players & managers will know who was what and as they say the silence is deafening 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SallyCinnamon Posted September 22, 2020 Share Posted September 22, 2020 5 minutes ago, hirstyboywonder said: Completely agree on the need to sell and rebuild and that was the issue I had with our approach. We signed good players on 3 and 4 year contracts with the aim of getting promoted in two years. I expected us to sell and refresh on this basis when we didn't go up - to balance the books and to prevent things going stale. Hammering these players for how their Wednesday careers have concluded ignores the fact they were very good for us for good spells, particularly Westwood and Hutchinson who were key players before Chansiri arrived. Absolutely spot on. After two failed play off attempts, we needed to sell, get rid of the manager and start the rebuild. Instead we didn’t sell and gave the manager a new deal. All the supposed bad eggs were very good players for Wednesday. They went stale and lost their market value. That’s why well run clubs like Brentford, Leeds and evening Derby to an extent sell their best talent before they get too comfortable at the club and start losing value. We did the exact opposite, gave a lot of players bumper new deals and rejected bids when they came in. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Farrell Posted September 22, 2020 Share Posted September 22, 2020 We are in a massively worse position than we were when DC took over. Millions and millions of pounds have left the club. These players that we thankfully have got rid of finally, are laughing their sacks off. DC has seen the light now, which is great. Those praising the overpaid shysters now living it up round the world on the back of out exorbitant ticket prices think on. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 22, 2020 Share Posted September 22, 2020 (edited) 6 minutes ago, soldierboyblue said: I agree with what you are saying. I'm not hammering any player they have played their part and are now consigned to history. I don't wish any of them anything but success (even Nuihiu). The problems were mainly that the manager let a toxic environment ferment and that DC didn't sell players (although how many we had offers for we will never know). The environment that prevailed was quite possibly the biggest issue at the club and the culture was cited many times as being a huge contributing factor to the current problems on the playing side. Fair points but the environment in terms of the influence of these players - Hutchinson and Westwood were completely discarded before lock-down. The club then had 2 months of lockdown talking to the remaining players constantly plus another month of training without them being around before football resumed in June to nurture a new environment. All the sounds coming out of the club were encouraging, positive vibes etc yet when we resumed we picked up 8 points from 9 games and were as poor as we had been all year. Once again the signs are encouraging now but lets not get ahead of ourselves - we were top of the league under Lee Bullen after two games last season. Also, the environment was OK for the first half of last season. Edited September 22, 2020 by Guest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SallyCinnamon Posted September 22, 2020 Share Posted September 22, 2020 (edited) 1 minute ago, Mr Farrell said: We are in a massively worse position than we were when DC took over. Millions and millions of pounds have left the club. These players that we thankfully have got rid of finally, are laughing their sacks off. DC has seen the light now, which is great. Those praising the overpaid shysters now living it up round the world on the back of out exorbitant ticket prices think on. So it’s the players fault for accepting lucrative contracts. They decided how much they were going to be paid and how long for. Reyt. That’s how it works. Edited September 22, 2020 by SallyCinnamon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soldierboyblue Posted September 22, 2020 Share Posted September 22, 2020 Just now, hirstyboywonder said: Fair points but the environment in terms of the influence of these players - Hutchinson and Westwood were completely discarded before lock-down. The club then had 2 months of lockdown talking to the remaining players constantly plus another month of training without them being around before football resumed in June to nurture a new environment. All the sounds coming out of the club were encouraging, positive vibes etc yet when we resumed we picked up 8 points from 9 games and were as poor as we had been all year. Once again the signs are encouraging now but lets not get ahead of ourselves - we were top of the league under Lee Bullen after two games last season. I'm not disagreeing as I said - Monk didn't want the players and they have gone. He has now brought the players he wants in and we can then judge him accordingly. Last season is just that last season. I am looking forward and not back and think that squabbling over past players indiscretions or perceived indiscretions is hugely counter productive. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 22, 2020 Share Posted September 22, 2020 1 minute ago, soldierboyblue said: I'm not disagreeing as I said - Monk didn't want the players and they have gone. He has now brought the players he wants in and we can then judge him accordingly. Last season is just that last season. I am looking forward and not back and think that squabbling over past players indiscretions or perceived indiscretions is hugely counter productive. This is probably not the best thread to keep replying in then mate! As said, I wouldn't have wanted Hutchinson to remain for this season either and the start to this season has been positive and encouraging. The start to last season was also very positive too though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soldierboyblue Posted September 22, 2020 Share Posted September 22, 2020 Just now, hirstyboywonder said: This is probably not the best thread to keep replying in then mate! As said, I wouldn't have wanted Hutchinson to remain for this season either and the start to this season has been positive and encouraging. The start to last season was also very positive too though. It was indeed and after the Barnsley game I was very optimistic. Then after Christmas we all know what happened. Hutchinson is history as are FF and the rest and whilst I like Hutch and what he brought to the team we now have a far more dynamic midfield and players who have a more all round game 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Farrell Posted September 22, 2020 Share Posted September 22, 2020 It's no coincidence this seasons positive start has come on the back of certain cockwombles nowhere near things. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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