Handball - VAR

[mattitheowl]

What's changed over the summer that we're now getting mental penalties for people being hit by the ball?  Stupid one in the Leeds game last week, one in the Man U game last night and now one in the Spurs game.  What's going on?  Is the rule now if the ball hits your hand/arm it's a penalty?

[marshy]

22 minutes ago, Gargoyle said:

Should bring back the accidental handball rule, indirect free kick inside the area. 

Easy solution.

You could, but define accidential!!

Well, not intentional!!

Define intentional!!

I see the problems, but this rule appears to be a case of ball hits your arm anywhere below the shoulder and it's a pen. Takes out the intentional and the accidental and lumps everything together. Like someone else posted, players will simply aim for someones arm to get a pen.

[Plonk]

Just can’t see how the spurs player could avoid it. It does seem that refs are saying if it hits your arm even though you can’t do anything about it then it’s a penalty 

[oldishowl]

But have they been told to do this.

 

[The Night-Owl]

Defenders should play with no arms or with their arms hidden inside their shirts. Modern football is getting like basketball. Soon no contact will be allowed. At least TV will be happy with talking points and an entertaining increase of high scoring games because the art of defending is outlawed. 

[camffiti]

VAR tho 

[Joe Sunburn]

On 20/09/2020 at 13:34, camffiti said:

VAR tho 

Besides VAR, it’s a judgment call by the official. Don’t think he saw it as VAR did. Bummer for them. 

[modboy]

Man utd one was definitely a handball tbf 

[Guest]

Clear handball in Chelsea's 3rd. Looks like they have changed the rule to give the attacking team the advantage to try and cancel the goals that are being chalked off due to VAR. 

[Joe Sunburn]

Completely agree, H. Can’t understand why officials don’t see or won’t blow the whistle on those. Too many this weekend already. It’s gonna get ugly I’m afraid. 
 

[Quadzilla]

Does anyone, including the refs, understand what the rule is anymore?

[mattitheowl]

39 minutes ago, Quadzilla said:

Does anyone, including the refs, understand what the rule is anymore?

At half time in the Palace game they showed the reply of the penalty given, then put up the laws showing all the potential reasons for a penalty.  Not one of them was satisfied.  It's absolute madness.  

[0wl18]

The rule changes are absolutely farcical.

 

last year the attacks were at a disadvantage, some of the goals chalked off were ridiculous.

 

This year the defenders are being penalised for owning arms but, the attackers have more leeway!

 

Handball is handball. In my opinion, it’s not acceptable for a handball decision to be judged on whether you’re a defender or, an attacker. 
 

It should either be, any instance where the ball hits and outstretched arm, outside of the tee shirt silhouette, results in either a penalty or, goal chalked off. 

[edmontonowl]

Hodgson said it right

 

If a player stops the ball to gain and advantage using his hand/arm, it's handball.

 

If it hits you, its not.

 

2 ideitical situation in the Palace game, 1 is given (it shouldn't have been) the other isn't

 

It's ruining the game

[Putney]

3 minutes ago, edmontonowl said:

Hodgson said it right

 

If a player stops the ball to gain and advantage using his hand/arm, it's handball.

 

If it hits you, its not.

 

2 ideitical situation in the Palace game, 1 is given (it shouldn't have been) the other isn't

 

It's ruining the game

I think the issue with handball to gain an advantage is that most players don’t deliberately handball. 

[Big Malc]

4 hours ago, Quadzilla said:

Does anyone, including the refs, understand what the rule is anymore?

I have no idea what the rule is.  I just wait for the outcome and laugh.

 

I have very little sympathy for the managers though.  For years it was relatively straightforward - if in the opinion of the ref it was deliberate, it was handball.  If in the opinion of the ref it was accidental, play on.

 

Unfortunately managers then decided their opinion was more important, demanded rule changes and demanded VAR.  Well, they got what they wanted.  Live with it.

[0wl18]

2 hours ago, Putney said:

I think the issue with handball to gain an advantage is that most players don’t deliberately handball. 

The ‘unnatural position’ predominantly worked. Why not fetch it back? 
 

ive heard that if the arm is more than a rugby balls width away from the torso, referees are being told to award penalties?! If it’s an attacker it’s fine though

 

Heard a load whinging about VAR again today. It’s not VAR that’s the issue, it’s the bloody rules!

[0wl18]

1 hour ago, Big Malc said:

I have no idea what the rule is.  I just wait for the outcome and laugh.

 

I have very little sympathy for the managers though.  For years it was relatively straightforward - if in the opinion of the ref it was deliberate, it was handball.  If in the opinion of the ref it was accidental, play on.

 

Unfortunately managers then decided their opinion was more important, demanded rule changes and demanded VAR.  Well, they got what they wanted.  Live with it.

I can’t say I recall any managers demanding a rule change with regards to the hand ball rule. Why would they? It was a very simple rule to follow.

VAR would never be a perfect science for the old rule because it would always be subjective but, that’s far better than the current tripe the officials are churning out at the minute.

[Big Malc]

They weren’t demanding a rule change.  They were complaining about the implementation of it.

 

We have rules and laws in football, but ultimately it has to be the opinion and interpretation of those rules by an overall arbiter - the referee.  

Managers - and fans - have spent so long criticising performances and decisions based often on little more than a difference of opinion.  Case in point being the fixation on the idea of the arms having a ‘natural position’ in handball incidents.  It was all a distraction - it should have been about intent or not.  
 

Moving at speed, changing direction, trying to avoid contact etc can all throw limbs out of sync and when slowed down make movement and position look ‘unnatural’.  So what?  The test was intent.  
 

But the constant complaining has led to the authorities bringing in absolutely nonsensical rules that can’t be followed by anyone.

 

We’re spending an inordinate amount of time trying to get perfect decisions that still rest on differences of opinions.  Until we accept that, we’re going to continue to have nonsensical rule changes that no-one can follow.

[0wl18]

3 minutes ago, Big Malc said:

They weren’t demanding a rule change.  They were complaining about the implementation of it.

 

We have rules and laws in football, but ultimately it has to be the opinion and interpretation of those rules by an overall arbiter - the referee.  

Managers - and fans - have spent so long criticising performances and decisions based often on little more than a difference of opinion.  Case in point being the fixation on the idea of the arms having a ‘natural position’ in handball incidents.  It was all a distraction - it should have been about intent or not.  
 

Moving at speed, changing direction, trying to avoid contact etc can all throw limbs out of sync and when slowed down make movement and position look ‘unnatural’.  So what?  The test was intent.  
 

But the constant complaining has led to the authorities bringing in absolutely nonsensical rules that can’t be followed by anyone.

 

We’re spending an inordinate amount of time trying to get perfect decisions that still rest on differences of opinions.  Until we accept that, we’re going to continue to have nonsensical rule changes that no-one can follow.

VAR would have made an instant impact with regards to the implementation though. They changed the rules and, introduced VAR in the same season.

 

The use of the screen so far this season has been fantastic. Referees has overturned plenty of decisions, a second look from an angle they didn’t have in the first instance can completely change their view point. 
 

Bring back the old rules. Let the officials use the monitor to check. They have a split second to judge a potentially game changing decision, the law of averages alone tells you they’re going to make obvious errors now and again. My perception of a decision will be different to yours, same with fouls, pens etc. Ultimately if the referee looks twice and isn’t convinced, the handball can’t have been that obvious/deliberate.