Garry Monk's coaching team to work with Jordan Rhodes

[areNOTwhatTHEYseem]

25 minutes ago, The Baron said:

if Rhodes was to play every game this coming season, if we get crosses into the box, and play the ball into his feet rather than lump it high to him aimlessly, I would wager he would score twenty plus goals.

 

I imagine you'd get fairly decent odds.

 

[The Baron]

2 minutes ago, areNOTwhatTHEYseem said:

 

I imagine you'd get fairly decent odds.

 

Im sure I would. I’d certainly have a bet if I knew he’d get a starting place each game. It’s not as daft as it sounds. 

[WatfordOwl]

[DJMortimer]

27 minutes ago, The Baron said:

I’ll be a little controversial. The problem is not Jordan Rhodes, he hasn’t scored regularly for a few reasons:

 

over recent seasons we have rarely delivered decent quality crosses into the box due to having poor quality wingers, building up too slowly, and inept coaching and management. 

 

He has rarely had a decent run of games in the team for a full 90 minutes. 
 

When he plays we ask too much of him in terms of work outside the box. He’s a goal scorer and to do that job he needs service in and around the penalty area; particularly the six yard box. He will be judged on goals, not through trying to impress with work rate. 
 

if Rhodes was to play every game this coming season, if we get crosses into the box, and play the ball into his feet rather than lump it high to him aimlessly, I would wager he would score twenty plus goals. 
 

Goal scoring is not something you forget. In the absence of any other genuine goal scorer let’s give him a sustained run; some people might just be surprised! 

 

Or to put it another way...

 

If we get a team good enough to provide plenty of chances so that Rhodes has very little to do other than convert, he may score a few and 'prove' the devotees were right. I'm sure most being judged on goals alone would prosper in such an environment. 

 

But if he doesn't, it does nothing to diminish his greatness. Instead we'll blame the coaching, the tactics, the speed of attack, the crosses, being substituted, not getting a run of games and anything else we can think of.

 

The exact same logic could be used to 'prove' that Rodger Wylde could still score 20 for us. 

[Guest Kagoshimaowl]

6 hours ago, cookeh said:

 

Why would i care to know anything about you?

Ooh somebody is upset!!  WAWAW?

[myHero]

47 minutes ago, The Baron said:

I’ll be a little controversial. The problem is not Jordan Rhodes, he hasn’t scored regularly for a few reasons:

 

over recent seasons we have rarely delivered decent quality crosses into the box due to having poor quality wingers, building up too slowly, and inept coaching and management. 

 

He has rarely had a decent run of games in the team for a full 90 minutes. 
 

When he plays we ask too much of him in terms of work outside the box. He’s a goal scorer and to do that job he needs service in and around the penalty area; particularly the six yard box. He will be judged on goals, not through trying to impress with work rate. 
 

if Rhodes was to play every game this coming season, if we get crosses into the box, and play the ball into his feet rather than lump it high to him aimlessly, I would wager he would score twenty plus goals. 
 

Goal scoring is not something you forget. In the absence of any other genuine goal scorer let’s give him a sustained run; some people might just be surprised! 

People talk about Rhodes as if he's Almen Abdi or Franny Jeffers. Carlos spent a season trying to destroy his confidence.

 

Jos spent a season trying to destroy everyones confidence...

 

And we spent two years trying to sell Rhodes to Norwich due to FFP.

 

In terms of work outside the box, that's an issue because in recent seasons we haven't controlled possession so we're asking the front line to defend for long periods of the game. This has to be done, and against Leicester, who you would expect to outplay us I was impressed with the work ethic of R&R. You close down defenders and you are going to create chances.

 

However, we would all rather we created chances from prolonged possesion. If we can do that, then Rhodes won't need to run 14k ouside the box over 90 minutes. We need him in the box, with quality delivery of crosses and through balls. (If Gary Lineker of old had been on our books over the last 3 years he would have exactly the same problems as Rhodes had)

 

Matt Penney maybe the final piece in the Jigsaw for Rhodes. Finally we have an attacking threat out wide who looks like he's going to deliver quality consistant crosses, which I think Rhodes will thrive on (Thanks Jos)

 

Rhodes is an enigma, but its simple really, if you play to his strengths, which we only managed for 45 minutes last season, he is second to none in the box. 

 

 

 

Edited September 10, 2020 by Ozymandias Owl

[DJMortimer]

2 minutes ago, Ozymandias Owl said:

 

If Gary Lineker of old had been on our books over the last 3 years he would have exactly the same problems as Rhodes had...

 

What nonsense. Lineker had an efficiency of movement and intelligence of anticipation that Rhodes can only dream about, never mind the difference in speed. And it also does nothing to explain why apparently less talented finishers in their legions were able to take this same supply and still score goals more often. Imagine what the reaction would have been if back when he arrived I'd said, "Despite having no injury problems, after two and a half years at the club (not including the loan at Norwich) he would have been involved in fewer goals than Nuhiu managed in just four months." 

 

7 minutes ago, Ozymandias Owl said:

Rhodes is an enigma, but its simple really, if you play to his strengths, which we only managed for 45 minutes last season, he is second to none in the box. 

 

This is the self-fulfilling rubbish I denounced just a minute before. Apart from that one game, Rhodes is currently on a run of 17+14 appearances and ONE GOAL. What did we do at Forest that was so revolutionary? Only one of his goals came from one of these legendary crosses that everyone goes on about, and anyone would have converted such a simple opportunity. The other two had nothing to do with a style of play - a shot from the edge of the area after a long punt and a loose ball in a crowded box after a corner. Both were undeniably very well finished, but it's like arguing Halley's Comet will be here every month because you saw it not too long ago.

 

 

[myHero]

1 hour ago, DJMortimer said:

 

What nonsense. Lineker had an efficiency of movement and intelligence of anticipation that Rhodes can only dream about, never mind the difference in speed. And it also does nothing to explain why apparently less talented finishers in their legions were able to take this same supply and still score goals more often. Imagine what the reaction would have been if back when he arrived I'd said, "Despite having no injury problems, after two and a half years at the club (not including the loan at Norwich) he would have been involved in fewer goals than Nuhiu managed in just four months." 

 

 

This is the self-fulfilling rubbish I denounced just a minute before. Apart from that one game, Rhodes is currently on a run of 17+14 appearances and ONE GOAL. What did we do at Forest that was so revolutionary? Only one of his goals came from one of these legendary crosses that everyone goes on about, and anyone would have converted such a simple opportunity. The other two had nothing to do with a style of play - a shot from the edge of the area after a long punt and a loose ball in a crowded box after a corner. Both were undeniably very well finished, but it's like arguing Halley's Comet will be here every month because you saw it not too long ago.

 

 

It's not nonsense.

 

Football is a matter of opinion. Jose Mourinho and Arsene Wenger are both sucessful managers, but they had different opinions on how to acheive success.  

 

Jordan Rhodes can be succesfull again if he's utilised effectively, and we play to his strengths, by getting him in the box, and providing quality chances for him to convert. 

[jomaco]

5 hours ago, REDAs_biG_piECE said:

The best Rhodes has looked since he signed were the 2 games he started after lockdown against Forest and Bristol

 

He actually looked like a footballer in those 2 games

 

Of course naturally Ginger Jos rewarded this upturn in performance by dropping him barely to be seen again and thus any confidence gained evaporated

He hasn't been the best but when he's done well he's been dropped which is annoying would like to see for once if he can get going - might have to this season anyway

 

 

 

 

[DJMortimer]

3 minutes ago, Ozymandias Owl said:

It's not nonsense.

 

Football is a matter of opinion. Jose Mourinho and Arsene Wenger are both sucessful managers, but they had different opinions on how to acheive success.  

 

Jordan Rhodes can be succesfull again if he's utilised effectively, and we play to his strengths, by getting him in the box, and providing quality chances for him to convert. 

 

Mourinho and Wenger had different approaches to management so... [justify irrelevant nonsense here] ?

 

Just about EVERY forward we've had who's played since Rhodes arrived (at least 8 of them) has scored at a batter rate than him. How can that be if he is the best finisher? Fletcher, Hooper, Nuhiu et al weren't having to run through the opposition by themselves. No, what we need is more of those chances like his second goal at Forest where a wheelie bin might have scored. ANY forward could be prolific on those terms. But most of them work with whatever it is they have instead of having lame excuses made for them.

 

I don't understand why some people are so obsessively invested in trying to prove that black is white when it is being demonstrated time after time that it isn't. They simply would not entertain this degree of denial in other circumstances. The rationale is so inherently loaded it can't fail to 'prove' the desired outcome, whatever the subject matter. Every Smartie in the tube is a red one because the green ones, yellow ones and orange ones don't count due to some criteria I've just made up.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[quinnssweetshop]

11 hours ago, cookeh said:

 

Maybe you're one of these folk that needs to watch a game a few times to understand whats going on.

Funny....

If you can't see what an unmitigated disaster and wage stealer Rhodes has been for the club then you're blind pal.

He plodded through that game, was out of shape and could do with losing more than a few pounds.

[Carbone]

18 hours ago, DJMortimer said:

 

What nonsense. Lineker had an efficiency of movement and intelligence of anticipation that Rhodes can only dream about, never mind the difference in speed. And it also does nothing to explain why apparently less talented finishers in their legions were able to take this same supply and still score goals more often. Imagine what the reaction would have been if back when he arrived I'd said, "Despite having no injury problems, after two and a half years at the club (not including the loan at Norwich) he would have been involved in fewer goals than Nuhiu managed in just four months." 

 

 

This is the self-fulfilling rubbish I denounced just a minute before. Apart from that one game, Rhodes is currently on a run of 17+14 appearances and ONE GOAL. What did we do at Forest that was so revolutionary? Only one of his goals came from one of these legendary crosses that everyone goes on about, and anyone would have converted such a simple opportunity. The other two had nothing to do with a style of play - a shot from the edge of the area after a long punt and a loose ball in a crowded box after a corner. Both were undeniably very well finished, but it's like arguing Halley's Comet will be here every month because you saw it not too long ago.

 

 

 

He just needs the service. 

 

I can't wait for the threads about how Carlos ruined him and held him back if he scores a couple of goals in our first few games

[Carbone]

19 hours ago, Ozymandias Owl said:

People talk about Rhodes as if he's Almen Abdi or Franny Jeffers. Carlos spent a season trying to destroy his confidence.

 

Jos spent a season trying to destroy everyones confidence...

 

And we spent two years trying to sell Rhodes to Norwich due to FFP.

 

In terms of work outside the box, that's an issue because in recent seasons we haven't controlled possession so we're asking the front line to defend for long periods of the game. This has to be done, and against Leicester, who you would expect to outplay us I was impressed with the work ethic of R&R. You close down defenders and you are going to create chances.

 

However, we would all rather we created chances from prolonged possesion. If we can do that, then Rhodes won't need to run 14k ouside the box over 90 minutes. We need him in the box, with quality delivery of crosses and through balls. (If Gary Lineker of old had been on our books over the last 3 years he would have exactly the same problems as Rhodes had)

 

Matt Penney maybe the final piece in the Jigsaw for Rhodes. Finally we have an attacking threat out wide who looks like he's going to deliver quality consistant crosses, which I think Rhodes will thrive on (Thanks Jos)

 

Rhodes is an enigma, but its simple really, if you play to his strengths, which we only managed for 45 minutes last season, he is second to none in the box. 

 

 

 

 

Can you give me an example of a striker who has spent 4 years out of form and then returned to form?

[poite]

Coaching team to work with the players?

 

What is this madness!

[Carbone]

17 hours ago, DJMortimer said:

 

 

 

I don't understand why some people are so obsessively invested in trying to prove that black is white when it is being demonstrated time after time that it isn't. They simply would not entertain this degree of denial in other circumstances. The rationale is so inherently loaded it can't fail to 'prove' the desired outcome, whatever the subject matter. Every Smartie in the tube is a red one because the green ones, yellow ones and orange ones don't count due to some criteria I've just made up.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It's a mystery isn't it. I've never know any Wednesday player get this treatment. Maybe it's because many of us fantasized having him here for years, it eventually happened and we were all let down, and some can't accept the sad reality he will never be successful here.

[shandypants]

Monk: “Right Jordan; what do you do if you’re in a goal scoring position and one of your teammates doesn’t pass the ball to you?”
Rhodes: “Give him a thumbs up boss”

Monk: “No Jordan! You shout at him! You tell him to give you the fvvcking ball next time!”

Rhodes: “Oh right boss. No thumbs up then?”

Monk: “That’s right Jordan, no thumbs up.  Right then Jordan; we’re on a roll. Are you ready for the next question? It’s a bit like the last one”

Rhodes: “Yes boss”

Monk: “PUT THAT THUMB DOWN OR I’LL CUT THE FVVCKING THING OFF!!!

Rhodes: “Sorry boss”

Monk: “Right Jordan; one of our players has the ball, you are pressing the channel and our player knocks the ball long over that channel. What do you do?”

Rhodes: “Jog towards the ball, watch their keeper or defender take possession, turn to our player and give him the thumbs up”

Monk: “Jesus fvvcking wept! JAMES! HAVE A WORD WITH THIS SILLY ******** WILL YA!”

[mcmigo]

I have said it before, Rhodes is playing follow the formula football. If you are carrying a knock , don’t fancy it or can’t get into form you can follow a formula to get a 5 or 6 out of 10.  As a forward, work the sides, come short with back to goal, back in and jump for balls, lay it off short and simple and make your runs from set plays. Fans clap you off for working hard and making good runs and blame others for not taking advantage of your hard work.

 

what you don’t do is risk. You don’t take people on, you don’t shoot from outside the box , you don’t try the unexpected as you think you will lose the ball and get stick. You avoid the possibility of missing easy chances. You do your work away from the box but run in without any real conviction to get on the end of stuff.

 

he has been doing it for so long I don’t think he can get out of it now at our club. 

[shandypants]

35 minutes ago, mcmigo said:

I have said it before, Rhodes is playing follow the formula football. If you are carrying a knock , don’t fancy it or can’t get into form you can follow a formula to get a 5 or 6 out of 10.  As a forward, work the sides, come short with back to goal, back in and jump for balls, lay it off short and simple 

You’ve described Gary Lineker there. The best English striker over the past 40 years IMHO.
 

Lineker wasn’t blessed with extravagant skill, blistering pace or powerful physicality but he applied himself, worked on his natural ability and developed strategies and tactics to beat his man. The first thing Rhodes needs to do is pull his finger out of his arse. He could also do with a bit of spite in his game. 
 

 

Edited September 11, 2020 by shandypants

[debram]

Stop making excuses, work with him till the sun don't shine, won't change anything, his best days are over, get rid and move on. 

[debram]

7 minutes ago, shandypants said:

You’ve described Gary Lineker there. The best English striker over the past 40 years IMHO.
 

Lineker wasn’t blessed with extravagant skill, blistering pace or powerful physicality but he applied himself, worked on his natural ability and developed strategies and tactics to beat his man. The first thing Rhodes needs to do is pull his finger out of his arse. He could also do with a bit of spite in his game. 
 

 

In this league now its like throwing a lamb to the wolves, spite, aggression etc is not in him.