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2 hours ago, areNOTwhatTHEYseem said:

I'd say the 3-5-2 is an extremely versatile formation that modifies itself throughout the course of a game forming a stout defense and a powerful offense.

 

The keys to a successful 3-5-2 formation are a dominant and cohesive trio of centerbacks, versatile players to play on the outside of the midfield, and a pair of dynamic strikers. The best professional example of a team that uses the 3-5-2 is Juventus, one of the top Italian teams in Europe.

 

Communication between the three Center Backs is essential. In most cases the three central defenders need to move as a unit. The trio must be aware of how much space is between them and they must maintain a linear shape to prevent attackers from making runs behind them. However in counter attacking situations if an opposing attacker cuts inside the closest Center Back must quickly realize this and pressure the ball while the other two cover the space behind him.

 

In addition to traditional skill sets required from central defenders in four at the back formations, such as phenomenal positional awareness, strong tackling, and the ability to win the ball in the air, Center Backs in a 3-5-2 formation require more speed. They need more speed because there are not traditional Left and Right Backs to match up with opposing teams pacey wing players.

The three Center Back strategy that the 3-5-2 utilizes is particularly successful against teams that play a formation with two Strikers, such as the 4-4-2. Reason being the two opposing forwards are now going head to head with an additional Center Back.

 

Many forwards are not accustomed to this because most teams play a formation that only features two central defenders. On the other hand, when a team plays with only one Striker, the three central defenders can find themselves all marking the same man.

The outside midfielders in a 3-5-2 formation are another key component to the formation. Instead of being referred to as Left and Right Midfielders the players on the outside of the 5-player midfield are categorized as the Left and Right Wingback, or LWB and RWB. In a 3-5-2 these players serve as a hybrid between the traditional Fullbacks and outside midfielders. When their team has possession the Wingbacks take up the responsibilities of an outside midfielder and when their team is defending they drop in line with the central defenders.

 

Because of  the constant and fluid transition that Wingbacks make the 3-5-2 essentially becomes a 5-3-2 while in defense. The Wingbacks join the centerbacks to form a singular back line and the CAM drops further into the midfield. From there, the CAM and the remaining two central midfielders move from across the field in unison to pressure the ball and protect the backline.

Because the Wingbacks are tasked with the duties of two separate positions they must be extremely versatile and fit. In addition to their defensive duties, Wingbacks often push as far up the field as the team's forwards in order provide width, support, and deliver crosses. The Wingback position in a 3-5-2 formation is often occupied by either a Fullback who has superior ball control and passing or an outside midfielder who can contribute on the defensive end of the field.

 

The two strikers in the 3-5-2 formation serve as the team’s primary goal scoring threats. They combine with each other and central midfielders, mainly the CAM, to pick apart the oppositions defense. The two strikers should also be looking to receive through balls by make runs behind the opposition’s back line.  It’s always a positive  to have at least one of these two players possess the ability to play as a target man. Meaning he has the size and strength to win crosses and long balls while holding off defenders. This allows the Wingbacks,  the three man central midfield, and the other Striker to join the attack and make themselves available to receive the ball.  

 

Well, that's what this website told me, anyway: https://youth1.com/soccer/fundamental-tactics-3-5-2-formation

 

:duntmatter:

 

Anyone got Monk's number? Can we send him this article? 

 

🙂

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33 minutes ago, Jim said:

 

That’s what worries me. One of the worst attacking players we have in one of the most important roles in this system?

The alternative is Odubajo one of the worst defending players we have in one of the most important roles in the system. 
Good going forward though but hey you can’t have everything. 

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I think he’ll go 3-5-1-1 with a “floater” behind the main attacker operating in the space between midfield and up front - pressing.

 

Going forwards it may even be 3-4-1-1-1 with an advanced midfielder. 
 

Reverts to 5-4-1 when defending.
 

Like it.

 

 

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10 minutes ago, Blatter said:

The alternative is Odubajo one of the worst defending players we have in one of the most important roles in the system. 
Good going forward though but hey you can’t have everything. 

 

I suppose you go with Odubajo then as there is more onus on a wing-back to attack than defend?

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Think we are strong in central defence and central midfield.

 

Not convinced the wing backs we have at our disposal will give us enough going forward.

 

Another striker and a left wing back needed as a minimum.

 

Would also like a defensive midfielder so we don't need Pelupessy

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2 minutes ago, alan48 said:

As I said elsewhere , we dont have the quality players at wing back to play this system . The players we have ,i m o are more naturally          suited to 4 4 2 .


What players would you have at left and right back? 

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3 minutes ago, Owls-Fan said:


What players would you have at left and right back? 

We’d definitely need a left back, that’s for sure

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5 minutes ago, alan48 said:

As I said elsewhere , we dont have the quality players at wing back to play this system . The players we have ,i m o are more naturally          suited to 4 4 2 .

I agree with this.

 

Palmer can defend, but poor going forward.

Oddjob is alright going forward, but can't defend

 

Reach is good going forward (best crosser of the ball at the club), but can't defend

Penney is still a bit of an unknown

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13 minutes ago, royalowlisback said:

I agree with this.

 

Palmer can defend, but poor going forward.

Oddjob is alright going forward, but can't defend

 

Reach is good going forward (best crosser of the ball at the club), but can't defend

Penney is still a bit of an unknown

Until we get a striker in, it probably should be 4-2-3-1, or something like that. Means Rhodes operating as the main striker, which he’d have to do whatever system we played. The three behind him, Brown, Kachunga and Windass. Again though, it poor planning, all three of those are going to drift towards the right. With the right footed Harris operating as a left back, we have no natural width on the left. For that reason, I’d go with Penney down the left. These are the obvious errors that infuriate me. Other than that, we either play Reach instead of Windass, but on the left, or we don’t operate with a striker at all, and leave Rhodes out

Edited by gurujuan
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Formations work against some teams.  Not against others. I'm always a little surprised at how obsessed people get with them. 

352 might work a treat one week but the game after we play against a team who completely nullify it. I just think it seems fans think one particular formation works and always works and in reality we'll have to adapt a lot over the long season. 

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1 minute ago, TheEnchanter said:

Formations work against some teams.  Not against others. I'm always a little surprised at how obsessed people get with them. 

352 might work a treat one week but the game after we play against a team who completely nullify it. I just think it seems fans think one particular formation works and always works and in reality we'll have to adapt a lot over the long season. 

Either, or both systems can work, if you have the correct personnel That is the issue here

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4 hours ago, domSWFC said:

Do you think this suits us? With our current crop of players is there a better suited system? 

 

352 relies heavily on the wing backs. They are your width in attack, and your only cover on the wing in defence. They are the most important players in the system, they have to be quality. Yet we don't have any proven quality there. Harris, Penney, Odubajo and Reach are options but is that their natural position? I'd say not. 

 

The forward 2, what's the dynamic we are after?

 

Kachunga alongside Rhodes, making the runs to provide him with cut backs? But then where does Windass fit? 

 

Do we need a target man to make the ball stick, if so who plays alongside them? 

 

Lots of questions, and the season starts in 2 days. How confident are you? 

3-5-2?

This is my favourite system.

I utilised it in 1990 at youth level and when it is played right it is brilliant.

When attacking you have7 players attacking and 3 defending, when defending you have 8 players defending, leaving 2 up front.

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Just now, TheEnchanter said:

Formations work against some teams.  Not against others. I'm always a little surprised at how obsessed people get with them. 

352 might work a treat one week but the game after we play against a team who completely nullify it. I just think it seems fans think one particular formation works and always works and in reality we'll have to adapt a lot over the long season. 

True, but sometimes formations can be forced upon us due to personnel available.

 

We are hopefully more adaptable now, but don't want another season of the wrong shaped pegs in the wrong shaped holes.

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Works for Antonio Conte. I'd go with:

 

                                       Dawson

                    Iorfa            Dunkley      Van Aken

                               Bannan   Dele-Bashiru  

        Kachunga                 Brown                 Harris

                                        Windass

                                      Rhodes/New

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Unless we bring in a rapid wing back or replace Murphy with someone that can replicate his effectiveness and bring in a defensive/holding midfielder, along with some strikers, I'd ditch 3-5-2.

 

We don't have the wing backs or the defensive midfielder or attackers that suit that formation. The only players we have that suit that formation are some of our centre backs, midfielders and Harris.

 

I'd play to our strengths and the remaining players we sign, need to fit how we want to play. In a congested season with plenty of midweek games, highs and lows, and with our points deduction, it would be beneficial to have plenty of options.

 

Different ways of playing, adaptable formations and adaptable players, and some strength in depth, would help. At present I'd play an variation of 4-3-3 or I'd go with 4-2-3-1. But depends on who else we sign and the formation could change throughout the season. 

 

Edited by The Night-Owl
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I think 343 (be it a 2-1 or 1-2 up top) is the only thing we can really play with the squad Monk's assembled.

That's a bit of a worry tbh. it's going to be hard to change things when we aren't doing so well in games and makes it easier for the opposition to prep as we'll be a 1 trick pony.

 

If we were to try and field a 4231..


Kachunga

Reach - Izzy - Harris
Bannan - Luongo

Penney - Dunkley - Iorfa - Palmer

Wildsmith

 

There's a lot of questionle aspects to that. The left side looks underwhleming at best. Penney's more of a wingback, so his defensive qualities would be targetted. And he has Reach ahead of him.. enough said. There's also no depth. Harris plays off the left, but there's no natural right winger, so we'd have to use him there, with no cover. And with Penney and Harris in the side we have no one to play left other than Reach. Left back there is literally only Penney and we have no alternative.

 

So there's 3 positions where we're unconvincing and have no alternative. The question shouldn't be 'does 3421 suit us?', it's 'can we do anything but 3412?'

 

 

 

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