Tom Lees our best player?

[Inspector Lestrade]

Just now, bolton9owl said:

Regretfully he doesn’t meet our new forward looking policy requirements :-

1. He’s not young

2. He’s slow and lacks energy

3. He’s definitely not confident on the ball.

4. Not a particularly good tackler

5. He lacks vision to create openings for midfielders/ attackers.

6. He has no ‘on pitch’ leadership qualities.

7. Doesn’t appear to be highly favoured by the Manager

8. He doesn’t show any signs of being a quick thinker which inevitably slows down his distribution

 

i think that’s enough to highlight he needs to go as at best he will only be used as a fallback defender.

 

 

1. He's not old

2. He's not slow and has bags of energy

3. Confident on the ball for a defender

4. Strong in the tackle

5. Always looking for an opening when passing to defenders and attackers.

6. Teammates look to him for his leadership qualities

7. Respected by the manager 

8. Eager to get the game going with his distribution

 

I think that’s enough to highlight he is a decent enough defender in these austerity times. 

 

 

 

 

[shezzas left peg]

1 hour ago, davetherivelinowl said:

Tom Lees has been getting some pelters on here lately. I agree he was at his best when he had Loovens alongside, I agree he must have the worst distribution of any player in the Championship, I agree he must be the quietest captain in the Championship BUT for me he's still a very steady defender, possibly even the best we've got. Is he as rubbish as some would make out or is he not bad really?

 

So I looked on whoscored.com to see if there was any evidence there that he'd suddenly become so poor and was actually surprised to see that (apart from the departed Fletcher and Joao) he was rated our BEST PLAYER last season, just ahead of Bannan, Iorfa and Borner.

 

Incidentally this also suggests:

a) 3 of our best 4 players last season were our centre-halves. Yet we've already bought another and are shopping for more.

b) Only 5 of our top 13 players from last season are still with us - the 4 above plus Harris 

c) Windass was one of our worst performing players last season (below Pelupessy)

 

I'm expecting people to say they only believe what their eyes tell them, rather than stats, but I'm one of those who thinks the stats might tell us something we've missed. And, in general, the stats on whoscored do seem to tally with what my eyes tell me.

Whilst I do take stats into account, they can also tell a false tale too. 

Was on about it the other day with managers win percentages..

You can play 2 games and be top of the stats, get injured and then not play again all season, but on stats your the best player!. 

With the stats the other day Bullen & Carlos both had higher win rario percentages than Big Ron, but you wouldn't class either as better manages would you? 

 

[Guest HillsboroughOwlNI]

Lies, damned lies and statistics.

[boxing_day]

For me he’s always been a middle of the road championship cb. Not comfortable enough on the ball enough to play at a higher level, but generally does the basics well. His forms declined over the last 12 months but he’s certainly capable of doing a job. He’s never been a leader though. 
 

My big problem is the contract he’s on. Which isn’t really his fault, over 25k pw is utterly ridiculous. But makes it impossible to sell and even when he was at the top of his game too much of a risk. That contract is up there with the worst bits of business we have done since Chansiri came and set the whole ff saga off.

[Hack-Abusi]

Sam Hutchinson in at 7 ... and wrongfully (IMO) bombed out

 

gutted

[Ante's Bubbly]

45 minutes ago, shezzas left peg said:

Whilst I do take stats into account, they can also tell a false tale too. 

Was on about it the other day with managers win percentages..

You can play 2 games and be top of the stats, get injured and then not play again all season, but on stats your the best player!. 

With the stats the other day Bullen & Carlos both had higher win rario percentages than Big Ron, but you wouldn't class either as better manages would you? 

 

 

Big Ron brought a different type of football to Hillsborough after the hard working dour style of footy that came just before it and I loved the team that played under Big Ron during that period. He was lucky enough to have a good nucleus of players and added his own players into the mix to make it even better. He was a huge likeable character full of charisma and the press loved him, treated him well and always wanted to be on his good side. However, once win percentages are analysed over a large enough number of samples they cannot be ignored and then whether you like a one manager more than another manager should not come into it.

 

Similarly with the player ratings. I stuck up for Tom Lees all season, because he had an injury and a bad virus, which he had to play on with because quite frankly the rest of the defence are a bunch of dozy so and so's. Borner, Iorfa, Palmer and Odubajo can all have good spells in games, but all go walk about and go missing at vital points in games when, unfortunately teams tend to score goals against us. Although I applaud Iorfa's speed nearly every game, I pull out what remains of my hair at the number of times that he gets way out of position at critical times. Fans voted him their player of the season despite the fact that he is a defender and cannot tackle at all without using his hands! He and Odubajo are two of the worst defenders I can remember seeing for getting hold of attackers every time and for getting pulled out of position. Palmer switches off several times a game when he should be concentrating even harder and all three of them are prone to make costly mistakes which lead to crucial goals being scored against us. Julian Borner can be a star at times, but his lack of mobility and lack of stamina also weakens our defence in games where the attackers are good enough to expose such weaknesses.

 

Tom Lees had a very bad season by his standards and had a couple of games when he performed badly, but at least he is capable of playing at a much higher level all through a game and sticking to the job he is given, which the other three are not. Like Jack Charlton said, he is not a brilliant player himself, but he is very good at stopping brilliant players from playing. The fact that Tom Lees had such a bad season last year and still had far better stats than his team mates says more about the poor standards set by the rest of the players. A poor Tom Lees is still better than the rest of our defenders over a season and unless a few of them have brain transplants I cannot see that changing any time soon.

 

[Guest]

If Tom Lees is one of our better players then we really are screwed 

 

And the 'least of our worries line' is total rubbish 

 

He's on 25k a week plus and should be 4th/5th choice at best 

To me that's a worry 

But hey let's keep carrying past it players who where good 4 years ago then wonder why we are a financial mess 

[max_7654]

My main issue with Lees is that he seems to have an adverse effect on the players around him which doesn’t come across on opta stats. He so often plays his teammates into trouble which in turn makes the players alongside him look nervous and starts to affect their decision making. I get that he’s never going to be a ball-playing CB but he doesn’t even seem to offer enough as an “old-school” physical CB to account for how limited he is in other areas of his game. Not to mention that if he comes up against an attacker with even half a yard of pace he looks completely lost.

 

The idea that he needs someone like Loovens alongside him is also madness given that he is now 29 years old (30 this year), one of the club’s highest earners and the club captain. Players should be looking to him for inspiration and instead they seem to be trying to guide him through games and cover his errors.  

 

Many fans were unable to praise Morgan Fox this season because “he was crap the whole time before;” whereas Lees seems to be given extra leniency because of his good start despite being poor ever since (and despite earning at least twice as much as Fox and some of the others who regularly get pelters). Lees has served us well and everyone has a clean slate this season with the new coaching setup but unless we see a major turnaround we really should be looking to free up his wages at the first opportunity.  

[full fathom five]

2 hours ago, Holmowl said:

Still one of our best players.
 

Yes a poor season by his standards. He’s better than Borner who gets so much love on here.

Agreed, Lees is the least of our worries.

[s6 owl]

5 minutes ago, full fathom five said:

Agreed, Lees is the least of our worries.

He'll be the least of our worries because he won't be in the team.

[full fathom five]

11 minutes ago, s6 owl said:

He'll be the least of our worries because he won't be in the team.

Really

[jonnyowl]

I really don't get the grief Tom Lees gets.

 

Yes he was out of form last season but lets face it alot of players were.

 

He's been a great servant for us over the years.

 

With Iorfa Borner and Dunkley, Lees could find himself as 4th choice.

 

Go find me another club in this division who's 4th choice center back is as good as Tom Lees.

[Guest mrbluesky]

4 hours ago, Beholder said:

Lees lost the plot last season..

 

One particular home game performance from him was truly horrific.

Add several more players to that, confidence is key, as they say.

[davetherivelinowl]

Thanks everyone for your thoughts. I'm pleased there are some on here who agree that he's a competent defender despite his lack of pace and poor distribution but of course there are still some who think otherwise. That's the point of a forum; we're allowed to disagree.

[The Wall]

Lees is a decent stopper, but Jos seemed to want him to play like Franz Beckenbauer. Totally not his game and seemed to destroy his confidence.

Not been the same since, but let's hope he can get back to keeping it simple.

Des Walker is the best CB I've seen at Hillsborough and he was hopeless on the ball. Not saying Lees is anywhere near Walker, but you don't necessarily have to be a 'ball playing centre half' to be a useful defender

[83owl]

I slate Iorfa sometimes for making rash decisions and diving in but at least he does something. Lees never forces the issue with attacking players, he will back away until he is on the gk toes if someone runs at him, Fulham away he just ambled along watching mitrovic? for half the pitch before watching him shoot.
 

Boro at home he rushed out to their winger for the winning goal, I don’t have a problem with that but if you’re going to go out there then at least be decisive, take everything foul him or close him down properly anything. Instead he just ran out and stood there watching play go by as usual.

 

He’s hesitant, indecisive, reacts to the ball like it’s a time bomb, can’t organise a defence, not particularly physical and will be one of the highest paid defenders in the league. 5year deal at 25k a week In the championship? another master stroke by our hierarchy.

[BarnsleyOwl96]

Not good on the ball and can tell he worries with the ball at his feet , been a solid defender and cracking signing over the years however, in a back 3 unfortunately borner iorfa and dunkley seem to be more suited . Personally see him as a back up .

[Steelman]

6 hours ago, davetherivelinowl said:

Tom Lees has been getting some pelters on here lately. I agree he was at his best when he had Loovens alongside, I agree he must have the worst distribution of any player in the Championship, I agree he must be the quietest captain in the Championship BUT for me he's still a very steady defender, possibly even the best we've got. Is he as rubbish as some would make out or is he not bad really?

 

So I looked on whoscored.com to see if there was any evidence there that he'd suddenly become so poor and was actually surprised to see that (apart from the departed Fletcher and Joao) he was rated our BEST PLAYER last season, just ahead of Bannan, Iorfa and Borner.

 

Incidentally this also suggests:

a) 3 of our best 4 players last season were our centre-halves. Yet we've already bought another and are shopping for more.

b) Only 5 of our top 13 players from last season are still with us - the 4 above plus Harris 

c) Windass was one of our worst performing players last season (below Pelupessy)

 

I'm expecting people to say they only believe what their eyes tell them, rather than stats, but I'm one of those who thinks the stats might tell us something we've missed. And, in general, the stats on whoscored do seem to tally with what my eyes tell me.

This is why we need the neg button back.

 

Neg -10

[Mister Soul]

18 hours ago, Bulgaria said:

Lee's has been an excellent signing for us.

 

His form has dipped, but with some new faces, new coaching staff I have every confidence he will be back to his best.

Tom Lees is the least of our worries.

Watch back some of the goals conceded from last season . Look around the situations leading up to the goals and you’ll see why his lack of confidence created panic .. Bannon started to drop back deep ( notes by many) . Human nature when you’re not sure when the next clanger is going to happen 

[Mister Soul]

16 hours ago, Inspector Lestrade said:

 

1. He's not old

2. He's not slow and has bags of energy

3. Confident on the ball for a defender

4. Strong in the tackle

5. Always looking for an opening when passing to defenders and attackers.

6. Teammates look to him for his leadership qualities

7. Respected by the manager 

8. Eager to get the game going with his distribution

 

I think that’s enough to highlight he is a decent enough defender in these austerity times. 

 

 

 

 

Confident on the ball?!?!?! 
You have got to be joking?