Leko the Wanderer

[Guest Kagoshimaowl]

6 hours ago, Emerson Thome said:

 

Before the Covid break Monk switched between 4-2-3-1 and 4-4-2, and even tried the 3-5-2 at Luton (Forestieri as LWB....), so suggests he likes to change formations depending on the opponent. He was kind of forced into the 3-5-2 after the break due to us only having about 15 senior players left.

 

So suggests he'll not be signing players with just one formation in mind but people with the intelligence to switch between different formations.

 

Agree a target man is needed though, as most formations have one. Maybe we can look outside the Championship? Bundesliga 2? Don't know why, but think a big ******** German might be what we need. An attacking equivalent of Borner.

I totally disagree. I think he’s wanted a back 3 from the beginning. He even shoehorned players into unfamiliar positions just to play the formation. He’s lucky in my opinion that Murphy, Harris and to a lesser degree Palmer did well in their ‘new’ positions. With six options at centre back and only three poor options (Palmer, Odubajo and Penney) at full back, I don’t think he will even consider anything except a back three.

[new zealand owl]

3 minutes ago, Kagoshimaowl said:

I totally disagree. I think he’s wanted a back 3 from the beginning. He even shoehorned players into unfamiliar positions just to play the formation. He’s lucky in my opinion that Murphy, Harris and to a lesser degree Palmer did well in their ‘new’ positions. With six options at centre back and only three poor options (Palmer, Odubajo and Penney) at full back, I don’t think he will even consider anything except a back three.

He will want a back up plan of playing 4-3-3 if pushed but yes I agree he has been angling for a 3 at the back formation for a while, he has two similar CBs in Dunkley and Iorfa so borner alongside them makes sense as first choice back 3.  It is now crucial we get quality wing backs and a target man x2 otherwise the formation won't work.

At least the new coaches will give him a valuable opinion on Penney and Harris in those positions 

[fpowl]

Is it just me that thinks in a back 3 all 3 centre backs should be quick and mobile  and physically strong and tall

 

i completely get, iorfa and Dunkley and I really rate borner but I just can’t help but think to have an outstanding back 3 borner will need to be quicker.

 

in the other two we can play a much higher line and have pace to recover with three mobile centre backs not so much when once’s a little sluggish 

 

not a Critism on borner just more an observation on playing style

 

that said I like that borner can play out and he’s calm on the ball Tom lees treats the hall like you’ve just passed him a ticking bomb

he hates it poor lad 

[gurujuan]

2 hours ago, Kagoshimaowl said:

I totally disagree. I think he’s wanted a back 3 from the beginning. He even shoehorned players into unfamiliar positions just to play the formation. He’s lucky in my opinion that Murphy, Harris and to a lesser degree Palmer did well in their ‘new’ positions. With six options at centre back and only three poor options (Palmer, Odubajo and Penney) at full back, I don’t think he will even consider anything except a back three.

Though we were apparently in for Hickey, a left back. I think it’s probably likely that it will be a back three, but if he didn’t trust the back up cb options, he might have wanted Dunkley anyway. If he wants to play three at the back, then his back up options would still be poor. 
I’m now easy about which system he plays, as long as he plays a midfield three. The big worry for me is, if he thinks we can still manage without a proper defensive midfielder. Most of our defensive problems stemmed from that, whether we played a three at the back, or even a flat back four. Not replacing Hutchinson, to my mind, would undermine everything he’s trying to do

[gurujuan]

7 minutes ago, fpowl said:

Is it just me that thinks in a back 3 all 3 centre backs should be quick and mobile  and physically strong and tall

 

i completely get, iorfa and Dunkley and I really rate borner but I just can’t help but think to have an outstanding back 3 borner will need to be quicker.

 

in the other two we can play a much higher line and have pace to recover with three mobile centre backs not so much when once’s a little sluggish 

 

not a Critism on borner just more an observation on playing style

 

that said I like that borner can play out and he’s calm on the ball Tom lees treats the hall like you’ve just passed him a ticking bomb

he hates it poor lad 

It’s interesting, I thought the three at the back operated most effectively when Palmer and Fox were the left and right centre backs. Neither of them were recognised centre backs, but being full backs by trade, they were happier when moving wide to cover the wing backs. Maybe with proper wing backs, and not wingers masquerading as wing backs, the centre backs won’t need to be called upon so much to go wide

[Philb125]

2 minutes ago, gurujuan said:

Though we were apparently in for Hickey, a left back. I think it’s probably likely that it will be a back three, but if he didn’t trust the back up cb options, he might have wanted Dunkley anyway. If he wants to play three at the back, then his back up options would still be poor. 
I’m now easy about which system he plays, as long as he plays a midfield three. The big worry for me is, if he thinks we can still manage without a proper defensive midfielder. Most of our defensive problems stemmed from that, whether we played a three at the back, or even a flat back four. Not replacing Hutchinson, to my mind, would undermine everything he’s trying to do

I agree with this, I think a back three is more to do with our midfield than it is to do with defenders/defence. Last seasons options were hugely limited. 
 

I do think that we may see a 343 on occasion this year with two hard working forwards and less attacking wide players in the middle. So Moses/Penney as midfielders similar to Chelsea set up. The caveat to this is Bannan isn’t part of the CM, he’s either out of team or wide left. with two harder working/all round players in middle. 
 

Good thing is, there are lots of options starting to appear. Horses for courses and all that. There isn’t a one system or selection that’s right for 46 games! 

[Plonk]

40 minutes ago, gurujuan said:

Though we were apparently in for Hickey, a left back. I think it’s probably likely that it will be a back three, but if he didn’t trust the back up cb options, he might have wanted Dunkley anyway. If he wants to play three at the back, then his back up options would still be poor. 
I’m now easy about which system he plays, as long as he plays a midfield three. The big worry for me is, if he thinks we can still manage without a proper defensive midfielder. Most of our defensive problems stemmed from that, whether we played a three at the back, or even a flat back four. Not replacing Hutchinson, to my mind, would undermine everything he’s trying to do

Which makes his treatment of hutch after Christmas even more strange. 

[gurujuan]

4 minutes ago, Plonk said:

Which makes his treatment of hutch after Christmas even more strange. 

Yes, and it nearly took us down. That’s done now, so let’s hope he’s learned the lesson

[Guest]

1 hour ago, fpowl said:

Is it just me that thinks in a back 3 all 3 centre backs should be quick and mobile  and physically strong and tall

 

i completely get, iorfa and Dunkley and I really rate borner but I just can’t help but think to have an outstanding back 3 borner will need to be quicker.

 

in the other two we can play a much higher line and have pace to recover with three mobile centre backs not so much when once’s a little sluggish 

 

not a Critism on borner just more an observation on playing style

 

that said I like that borner can play out and he’s calm on the ball Tom lees treats the hall like you’ve just passed him a ticking bomb

he hates it poor lad 

 

I think one slower one is ok, you have the slower one competing to win the ball or closing down attackers and the other two are more ready to cover if needed.

[Plonk]

1 hour ago, gurujuan said:

Yes, and it nearly took us down. That’s done now, so let’s hope he’s learned the lesson

I really hope so pal. For me the team and fans should come first, and when it became apparent what was happening there should have been some mediation / backtracking done to get things back on track. I accept none of us know what went on but let’s hope lessons have been learned. 

[gurujuan]

1 minute ago, Plonk said:

I really hope so pal. For me the team and fans should come first, and when it became apparent what was happening there should have been some mediation / backtracking done to get things back on track. I accept none of us know what went on but let’s hope lessons have been learned. 

Clearly the sensible thing, would have been to wait until he had the position covered, before leaving him out. 

[Plonk]

5 minutes ago, gurujuan said:

Clearly the sensible thing, would have been to wait until he had the position covered, before leaving him out. 

He did. He replaced him with pelepussy, and gave him a new contract. 

[BarnsleyOwl96]

Just to note those who saying he’s still injured ; where does this come from ?

 

acl tear December 2019 , approx 6-8 months so should be back now and surely we’ve done our homework before holding talks 

[gurujuan]

47 minutes ago, Plonk said:

He did. He replaced him with pelepussy, and gave him a new contract. 

Yes, that’s what I mean, he needs to learn those lessons

[gurujuan]

7 minutes ago, Dagmeister's Shadow said:

IMO it was always likely to have come to a head with Hutch. Monk apparently wants players to be training every day to be considered for selection and IMO there's good reasons for this. More about the ethos going forward rather than one player. Should Monk have made a short term exception in the interest of expediency? Perhaps but given that other players were being offered new deals it likely wouldn't have been long before Hutch was asking questions himself so sooner or later things would have come to a head. I liked Hutch but under the philosophy of train to play he was always going to be released in the summer. In the end no damage was done. Time to look forward.

Indeed, it’s done now, but it was an incredibly risky strategy. To be honest, the players being offered new contracts, this could have waited until the seasons end That would have been the prudent thing to do anyway, as we wouldn’t have known in which division we would have been playing. In the end, one year deals were signed by only Pelupessy and Penney.

[gurujuan]

3 minutes ago, Dagmeister's Shadow said:

To be fair Hutch us a self confessed moaner and there are rumours of a conflict that left monk no option but to make a stand. Could have been costly last season but wasn't in the end as we stated up and IMO we weren't good enough to sustain a top six challenge. The benefits of what was a gamble might well accrue next season. Hutch is a good player and I'd agree that his absence hurt us. We now need a mature player recruiting to replace the nite that Hutch provided. Not a like for like but a physical presence that can fit in with the new team ethos.

Yep

[Jim]

23 minutes ago, gurujuan said:

Indeed, it’s done now, but it was an incredibly risky strategy. To be honest, the players being offered new contracts, this could have waited until the seasons end That would have been the prudent thing to do anyway, as we wouldn’t have known in which division we would have been playing. In the end, one year deals were signed by only Pelupessy and Penney.

 

And that was didn't to clauses acted upon in their contracts. It's not as if they were offered new deals?

[Guest Kagoshimaowl]

4 hours ago, gurujuan said:

Though we were apparently in for Hickey, a left back. I think it’s probably likely that it will be a back three, but if he didn’t trust the back up cb options, he might have wanted Dunkley anyway. If he wants to play three at the back, then his back up options would still be poor. 
I’m now easy about which system he plays, as long as he plays a midfield three. The big worry for me is, if he thinks we can still manage without a proper defensive midfielder. Most of our defensive problems stemmed from that, whether we played a three at the back, or even a flat back four. Not replacing Hutchinson, to my mind, would undermine everything he’s trying to do

Agree with all of that mate!

[sheffwed1]

I’m excited about this one. Hope it comes off and is a permanent deal. 

[The Night-Owl]

6 hours ago, gurujuan said:

Though we were apparently in for Hickey, a left back. I think it’s probably likely that it will be a back three, but if he didn’t trust the back up cb options, he might have wanted Dunkley anyway. If he wants to play three at the back, then his back up options would still be poor. 
I’m now easy about which system he plays, as long as he plays a midfield three. The big worry for me is, if he thinks we can still manage without a proper defensive midfielder. Most of our defensive problems stemmed from that, whether we played a three at the back, or even a flat back four. Not replacing Hutchinson, to my mind, would undermine everything he’s trying to do

 

I agree, a midfield beast/defensive midfielder type would be ideal and we have needed to bring one in ever since Wembley. Hutchinson was good at that role but wasn't reliable enough.

 

Even though it's important we improve the defence, get more athletic players in and some attackers, it's just as important in my opinion that we finally bring in a defensive midfielder.

 

It's crucial we finally bring one in, especially if it allows the likes of Bannan; Brown, FDB or Windass to play further forward to support whoever is brought in to play upfront. Personally I'd like us to go for someone like Sam Field or Sam Morsy or someone similar to either of them.

 

If we could get both Leko and Field in, that would be smart and brilliant business in my view. It does look like we're looking at the right types of players with the attributes we have lacked, so hopefully a defensive midfielder is brought in too before the season starts or before the window shuts. 

Edited August 22, 2020 by The Night-Owl