Inspector Lestrade Posted August 21, 2020 Share Posted August 21, 2020 54 minutes ago, ashley8 said: Can we address the blindingly obvious. Players are managed. That's the manager's job. A player not performing needs managing behind close doors. Not the entire squad to blame. As a manager your job is to sort the mentality of your players not just use it as an excause all the time. Players need a manager not a cop out.... Surely you can only take that so far, once you have exhausted all the possibilities and your still not getting the input required then you have to make ultimate decision. End of the day it comes down to either give us what we want or clear off. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BARMYARMY2010 Posted August 21, 2020 Share Posted August 21, 2020 (edited) 27 minutes ago, paddyowl said: Never with success though. He knows this league and the one above, that was your point about Mccarthy, Nevermind adding bits on to suit. Edited August 21, 2020 by BARMYARMY2010 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swissmess Posted August 21, 2020 Share Posted August 21, 2020 20 hours ago, Utah Owl said: That was for the 04/05 season and although Turner had gone by end of September, the very same squad got promoted under Sturrock just a few months later. And that is exactly the problem for those who don't rate Monk. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S25OWL Posted August 21, 2020 Share Posted August 21, 2020 (edited) For me the slate is clean ... he was working with players that have failed for 4 seasons and under 4 different managers - even Bullen said he couldn't do anything with the squad in his 2nd caretaker roll - so what did that tell you. 1. Added his backroom staff - some great results from JB with strikers if you look at his record at previous clubs - lets hope he can do the same here! also others with promotion experience. 2. Removed many high earners to bring in a wage structure (so all players similar/equal = Team) 3. Added his own players with a hungry attitude so clearly -12 isn't seen as a problem 4. Looking at reducing an ageing squad but keeping some experience So now I will start judging but only at the end of October! Edited August 21, 2020 by S25OWL 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paddyowl Posted August 21, 2020 Share Posted August 21, 2020 4 hours ago, BARMYARMY2010 said: He knows this league and the one above, that was your point about Mccarthy, Nevermind adding bits on to suit. McCarthy has had 2 promotions to the premier league and play-offs as well. He's also managed in a world cup finals. or am I not allowed to add those on? IMO McCarthy is a far superior manager compared to Monk. I would debate that till the cows come home. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kobayashi Posted August 21, 2020 Share Posted August 21, 2020 (edited) We don’t know whether the new coaches are any good. We don’t know whether the new players will perform better than those that they are replacing. We do know that Monk is a crap manager. Edited August 21, 2020 by kobayashi 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
parajack Posted August 21, 2020 Share Posted August 21, 2020 1 hour ago, paddyowl said: McCarthy has had 2 promotions to the premier league and play-offs as well. He's also managed in a world cup finals. or am I not allowed to add those on? IMO McCarthy is a far superior manager compared to Monk. I would debate that till the cows come home. Cant just compare the past to the present....circumstances different now....its like comparing a Player at the start of his career,to one nearing the end.Yes Mcarthy has more achievements,but Monk has time yet to start to compare him,and lets be honest Ipswich didnt want him anymore and he is not currently in Management..(probably by choice)...Every dog has his day.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kobayashi Posted August 21, 2020 Share Posted August 21, 2020 1 hour ago, hugeowl said: We all know youareanobchese You know little, including how to spell cheese. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest hk_owl Posted August 21, 2020 Share Posted August 21, 2020 No. I liked in when football was a results based business. That second half of the season would have me thinking that any manager in the world, whatever their name and pedigree had to go... It’s shuffling deckchairs on the Titanic now... unless we win the first 5 on the bounce, and Pelupessy is our leading scorer. Then I’m right behind them! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonesy87shef Posted August 21, 2020 Share Posted August 21, 2020 Said in a previous thread it’s a clean slate for me. More forced though as it appears he will be here for a while. He should have gone months ago though. Can see positve signs in our recruitment of both players and staff so that’s pleasing. I just want to point out what seems to be getting ignored by lots if poster now. Even with a bang average squad, lack of his own coaches etc. He still should have performed and got the squad to pull in the same direction and got more points on the board. He failed that challenge since Christmas. Quite honestly we were an embarrassment. Pre season is a fresh start for everyone and there can’t be excuses now. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergeant Tibbs Posted August 21, 2020 Share Posted August 21, 2020 4 hours ago, paddyowl said: McCarthy has had 2 promotions to the premier league and play-offs as well. He's also managed in a world cup finals. or am I not allowed to add those on? IMO McCarthy is a far superior manager compared to Monk. I would debate that till the cows come home. Just a question or two, they’re relative. How many years more has McCarthy been in management than Monk, how long had he been managing before he achieved promotion. As for his World Cup duties, he should be given credit for stamping on Roy Keane’s ego. A brave decision and I applaud him for it. Took out his own star player. Imagine if Monk did something similar. What are the chances ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
parajack Posted August 22, 2020 Share Posted August 22, 2020 12 hours ago, kobayashi said: We don’t know whether the new coaches are any good. We don’t know whether the new players will perform better than those that they are replacing. We do know that Monk is a crap manager. Once upon a time,in a land FAR AWAY,there lived a Beautiful Princess,who lay under a witches Spell, asleep,waiting for a 'Handsome Prince' to awaken her...her name was (of course) Princess Wednesday.....Will Beattie et al..be the Handsome 'Prince'? who the ******** knows,but he comes well respected with his time,as a Player,and is allegedly well regarded as a Coach. Monk is not 'a crap Manager' Evidence to prove such, Has been posted over & over in multiple threads,seems pointless to re post his success's over and over.New Players(much needed!!) will be,as they always are,a mix of hit and miss....will they play better than FF? well if they turn up & are available,that will be a start,& not be allegedly not available over Xmas...Will they be prepared to train every day?unlike a certain Player who left? Hope so... Will their'form' be Mysteriously allegedly random throughout a Season? like some of the Players,you refer to? & the same for some who are still with us?..Will they aquire alleged 'Injurys'?...and make themselves unavailable for selection? Will they not be vilified,and blamed constantly,by the Fan base,like another Player who left?(and i dont blame him) well jurys out on that one....eh?..What we do know,is that a new group of Players coming in,allow Monk & his staff to develop a 'Team' spirit, Give the man a chance,recognise(and appreciate!!) the JOb he(and Jos before him) faced...unlike Jos,he has been allowed to stay,& sort out the issues(none of which were his making......) If you think Monk was so crap,cut & paste your posts from Xmas saying so.....Not one person has managed it yet.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
@owlstalk Posted August 22, 2020 Share Posted August 22, 2020 Anyone who isn’t giving Monk a totally clean slate now shouldn't support us anymore 1 1 3 Owlstalk Shop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
parajack Posted August 22, 2020 Share Posted August 22, 2020 9 hours ago, hk_owl said: No. I liked in when football was a results based business. That second half of the season would have me thinking that any manager in the world, whatever their name and pedigree had to go... It’s shuffling deckchairs on the Titanic now... unless we win the first 5 on the bounce, and Pelupessy is our leading scorer. Then I’m right behind them! NO mate,ordinarily I would agree with you,if all other factors were equal,but (another!) Manager going,would have solved nothing....'Player power' would have allegedly ruled supreme in that dressing room,Bullen(again) would most likely have been placed in temporary charge,and any Manager coming in,would have faced the same issues. Monk knows the situation,the Club,the Fan base,has a reasonable relationship with the Chairman,& his track record shows he has the bottle to deal with a points deduction.At this moment in time,there is no better placed Manager in my view,to take us forward into the 2020/21 Seasons challenges. We shall soon know whose view is right,as the season starts shortly,but Bruce said,he needed 4 transfer windows,to sort out the Club....Monk has had one,seems unfair to Judge him on the second half of the season only,when (to me) it seemed obvious that allegedly many of his Players had 'downed tool's or simply wernt good enough. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
parajack Posted August 22, 2020 Share Posted August 22, 2020 9 hours ago, jonesy87shef said: Said in a previous thread it’s a clean slate for me. More forced though as it appears he will be here for a while. He should have gone months ago though. Can see positve signs in our recruitment of both players and staff so that’s pleasing. I just want to point out what seems to be getting ignored by lots if poster now. Even with a bang average squad, lack of his own coaches etc. He still should have performed and got the squad to pull in the same direction and got more points on the board. He failed that challenge since Christmas. Quite honestly we were an embarrassment. Pre season is a fresh start for everyone and there can’t be excuses now. Ignored?....not being ignored at all!..(respectfully).That is a view that some Owlstalk members have,& they (like you) have said so...Some,to their credit have stated there reasons for having that view.Others(like myself) Totally disagree with that viewpoint,an think Monk did an excellent job(as proven by our third place spot at Xmas,& avoiding relegation,thereafter) Many feel the 'issues' at Club,ie:,alleged 'player power' & a whole host of other factors repeated over & over,in multiple threads,were the cause of the Season collapse. people disagree with your summary,they dont ignore it..... Not so sure about the 'clean slate' either,(Player wise) Seem to remember both Bullen & Bruce,said similar.....(and it still didnt work out..in my view)For me i would lime to see both certain Players still at the Club,moved on if possible,& not involved further with the 2021 'squad'..I imply nothing,I would just like to draw a line under the problems of the past,& start afresh. Sometimes (for lots of reasons) that involves a clear out,and some blameless People get caught up in that.(Bullen & Weaver going to the under 23s,may be an alleged example of that) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gurujuan Posted August 22, 2020 Share Posted August 22, 2020 9 hours ago, jonesy87shef said: Said in a previous thread it’s a clean slate for me. More forced though as it appears he will be here for a while. He should have gone months ago though. Can see positve signs in our recruitment of both players and staff so that’s pleasing. I just want to point out what seems to be getting ignored by lots if poster now. Even with a bang average squad, lack of his own coaches etc. He still should have performed and got the squad to pull in the same direction and got more points on the board. He failed that challenge since Christmas. Quite honestly we were an embarrassment. Pre season is a fresh start for everyone and there can’t be excuses now. Pretty much where I’m at, had the EFL done their job, Monk would have taken us down From third at Christmas to bottom of the pile, no excuses could have justified that. Anyway, he got a get of gaol free card, though not exactly free, given the 12 point penalty. Now he has his own coaches, he can bring in his own players, so he needs to learn the lessons of last season, and perhaps be a bit more considered in his decision making. I don’t think there is any Wednesday fan who doesn’t want him to succeed, and I don’t doubt that he is determined to do that. As you say, a fresh start for everyone, and recruitment is going well, so I am optimistic that we will have a good season Here’s hoping 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spookone Posted August 22, 2020 Share Posted August 22, 2020 On 20/08/2020 at 21:12, Wednesday_Jack said: The contract situation is not Monks fault though is it??!! And let’s be honest the contract expiry issue is what the majority called for and it needed to happen...clear some dead wood out. No I wasn’t suggesting it was Monks fault - I’m glad most have them have gone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hougoumont Posted August 22, 2020 Share Posted August 22, 2020 Too many people are judging by results rather than performance. Those last 9 games were decent performances spoilt by some horrendous individual errors which made for a very poor points return. Monk's got his staff now, he's got rid of the negative nellies in the dressing room and new signings who seem to be on his side. So, let's all chill out and give the bloke a fair chance. Comments after about 15 games will be declared valid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveyboy66 Posted August 22, 2020 Share Posted August 22, 2020 2 hours ago, gurujuan said: Pretty much where I’m at, had the EFL done their job, Monk would have taken us down From third at Christmas to bottom of the pile, no excuses could have justified that. Anyway, he got a get of gaol free card, though not exactly free, given the 12 point penalty. Now he has his own coaches, he can bring in his own players, so he needs to learn the lessons of last season, and perhaps be a bit more considered in his decission making. I don’t think there is any Wednesday fan who doesn’t want him to succeed, and I don’t doubt that he is determined to do that. As you say, a fresh start for everyone, and recruitment is going well, so I am optimistic that we will have a good season Here’s hoping So what you are saying is that without the EFL we would have finished where we finished...so Monk didn't take us down after all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gurujuan Posted August 22, 2020 Share Posted August 22, 2020 5 minutes ago, daveyboy66 said: So what you are saying is that without the EFL we would have finished where we finished...so Monk didn't take us down after all No he didn’t, thank goodness. Guess what I am saying is, lessons need to be learned from last season, that could very well have ended in disaster. Onwards and upwards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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