Is It Time For PL2

[bigthinrob]

37 minutes ago, rickygoo said:

Can people not be concerned about the wider issues affecting football as well as support Wednesday? As you look at the little clubs that’s how the Man Utds of this world look at us. All this craving to be part of the big boys club when the big boys don’t give a fig about us. 

I wasn't talking about how or why we are perceived to be what we are.

 

I was talking about the actual realities in life. 

 

I was talking about the massive iniquity between clubs under the same umbrella and the impossibility of governing all of them within that same framework.

 

The Man Utd analogy is totally irrelevant. THEY are governed by the Premier league & enjoy all the benefits (and freedoms) that encompasses.

 

ALL the members of the Prem in reality are pretty much allowed to spend whatever they want. I'm not saying Burnley can financially compete with Man City, but the important thing is that they are ALLOWED to.

 

Conversely, we are judged & have the same financial limitations placed on us as Wycombe for instance. 

 

If the "big boys don't give a fig about us" as you say.

 

Why should WE give a fig about lesser club's.

 

We've already seen how club's fighting relegation were trying to crucify us to save their skins. 

 

"Wider issues"?????   Let the billionaires of City, Man Utd not to mention the overpaid morons at the EFL worry about the "wider issues". 

 

Maybe it's about time we took care of number one for a change.

[asteener1867]

18 hours ago, Swiss Toni said:

The fact there are 2 footballing entities in the PL and the EFL is the issue - for it to work there has to be one unified body. It’s actually the PL that’s the real problem and it’s killing the English game.
 

Teams relegated throw money around and other clubs in the Championship try and compete which then causes them issues. In having the ‘supposed’ best league in the world in the PL it’s diluted the rest of the leagues significantly.
 

Having a PL 2 would kill off L1 and L2 completely. It’s a no from me in reality. Any clubs outside the Championship would veto it. 

This is the way it SHOULD have worked....The EFL and the PL should have had something in place that STOPPED clubs cheating and escaping by simply escaping outta the attic!

Villa, Wolves, Bournemouth...

Bournemouth have virtually paid 4.7 million out of the 100's of millions they have gained by getting into the Prem...Cheats prospering, Wolves and Villa, are going the same way.

Bournemouth are back down now...No penalties...So there they stand 12 points above us already, armed with parachute payments  , having broken the same rules we are accused of breaking...Villa escaped by the scruff and Wolves are now set fair in the Prem..where on earth is the parity in that?

 

Edited August 18, 2020 by asteener1867

[TheGaffer]

4 hours ago, Owling with laughter said:

 

Whats the incentive for the current PL to dilute its income to accommodate another 20? clubs in a PL2 or dilute its attractiveness to the worldwide TV audience? Call it what you want, it’ll still be 2nd tier football and it’s not attractive to a worldwide TV audience.

 

Also who decides which clubs should be deemed attractive enough to be included? You seriously think that’s going to happen, clubs just accepting they’re not big enough or attractive enough to be included?

 

 

Again, what’s the benefit to the current Premier League. Less games = less matchday  revenue added to sharing the TV income amongst more clubs?

 

Nothing in it for them and until there is it’s all wishful thinking.

The benefit is less games. 8 less a season for negligible difference in money. 

[Dick_Turpin]

5 hours ago, bigthinrob said:

Why should WE give a fig about lesser club's.

 

At the moment we're 12 points adrift at the bottom of the Second Division and I've shelled out the best part of a grand to watch an uphill battle to avoid going back into the Third Division and I'm expected to believe that we're prime candidates for PL2 and we're being hamstrung by "lesser clubs".   Sorry I don't buy it. We need to get our own house in order first and get beyond the rank incompetence revealed by the panel's report. Then maybe we can talk about "lesser clubs" - although that term does turn my stomach a bit. 

[Tommy Crawshaw]

23 hours ago, Swiss Toni said:

The fact there are 2 footballing entities in the PL and the EFL is the issue - for it to work there has to be one unified body. It’s actually the PL that’s the real problem and it’s killing the English game.

 

This.... and SWFC are partly to blame as one of the founding member clubs who first broke away from the Football League to form the PL.

 

[bigthinrob]

11 hours ago, rickygoo said:

At the moment we're 12 points adrift at the bottom of the Second Division and I've shelled out the best part of a grand to watch an uphill battle to avoid going back into the Third Division and I'm expected to believe that we're prime candidates for PL2 and we're being hamstrung by "lesser clubs".   Sorry I don't buy it. We need to get our own house in order first and get beyond the rank incompetence revealed by the panel's report. Then maybe we can talk about "lesser clubs" - although that term does turn my stomach a bit. 

Notice you're quoting ONE paragraph out of context. Not like you!!   Not to mention misquoting me entirely!   "Hamstrung" by lesser clubs. Don't recall saying that!!!!

 

I think the content of the WHOLE POST was patently obvious to understand, as was the financial context of the term 'lesser' clubs, but feel free to misquote out of context if you feel it necessary in trying to score your points.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[billyblack]

I would hate another PL. Would just widen the gap between rich and poor clubs further

[bigthinrob]

2 minutes ago, billyblack said:

I would hate another PL. Would just widen the gap between rich and poor clubs further

And the problem with that from OUR point of view when we have money to spend is???

 

Not sure why all the concern about clubs with less spending power than ourselves.

 

I don't recall many club's shedding tears for us when we didn't have a pot to pi*s in.

[asteener1867]

16 hours ago, rickygoo said:

At the moment we're 12 points adrift at the bottom of the Second Division and I've shelled out the best part of a grand to watch an uphill battle to avoid going back into the Third Division and I'm expected to believe that we're prime candidates for PL2 and we're being hamstrung by "lesser clubs".   Sorry I don't buy it. We need to get our own house in order first and get beyond the rank incompetence revealed by the panel's report. Then maybe we can talk about "lesser clubs" - although that term does turn my stomach a bit. 

Yes , but you have missed the fact that the way football is going....A team that can still draw 25'000 while being crap, and a team that can draw 40'000 for the big games ..is more of an attraction to what "prem2" would be...than say a "good" football team.

It is,  at the moment a game that is as much about profile as it is about skill, lets be honest, we are at a point where relegation and promotion are being fought out at The Old Bailey, rather than Wembley.

Strange times make strange bedfellows Ricky

[Owling with laughter]

24 minutes ago, asteener1867 said:

Yes , but you have missed the fact that the way football is going....A team that can still draw 25'000 while being crap, and a team that can draw 40'000 for the big games ..is more of an attraction to what "prem2" would be...than say a "good" football team.

It is,  at the moment a game that is as much about profile as it is about skill, lets be honest, we are at a point where relegation and promotion are being fought out at The Old Bailey, rather than Wembley.

Strange times make strange bedfellows Ricky

Half the Championship gets crowds of 20,000 or above and most of them could probably say they’re crap as well.

Add the fact 25,000 aren’t actually attending matches despite what the ‘official’ attendance says, the ground looks more than half empty and the atmosphere is poor most matches. It doesn’t come across well on the telly. 

 

Add the fact 40,000 can’t attend for big matches, rare as they are, as the capacity is now about 34,000 and you can see Wednesday really aren’t anything special in terms of attraction to the outside world.

 

Wednesday aren’t any more of an attraction to a Prem 2 than they are to the Championship. The reality is a Prem 2 is simply not an attraction in itself. It’d have the same clubs in it is as the Championship. It would be the Championship but with a different name.

 

Unless we’re advocating relegating your Wycombe’s and replacing them with your Sunderland’s. Then stop relegation from it and promotion to it.

 

Good luck with that.

 

Neither Sky or anybody else is going to chuck mega millions at it. If they were they’d be doing it now to the Championship. Neither is the Premier League going to share it’s money amongst more clubs. Why would it?

PL2 is a romantic idea but it’s a ship that has already sailed with the original formation of the Premier League. The Championship should have grabbed the deal offered by the Premier League at the start (25% I seem to remember) 

 

The only solution now is to get into the Premier League and stay there, tough as that is.

Other clubs have done it, Wednesday can do it.

 

 

 

[1867Heaven]

On 18/08/2020 at 11:48, Inspector Lestrade said:

 

If you set up another league the exact same clubs would be in it drafting the rules of the league.  

 

Wouldn't they stay more or less with the same rules?  Any tweaks could be made now within the EFL setup.

 

 

It doesn’t need tweaks it needs the EFL and also the FA to grow a pair and stand up to the premier league and if not then PL2 would at least be if it our club(hopefully!)

 

At the beginning of the premier league it was called the FA Premiership because the FA actual has some control over it but they’re bullied or persuaded in other ways into letting do what they want.....same with parachute payments and the EFL....it all needs an overhaul

[Inspector Lestrade]

1 hour ago, 1867Heaven said:

It doesn’t need tweaks it needs the EFL and also the FA to grow a pair and stand up to the premier league and if not then PL2 would at least be if it our club(hopefully!)

 

At the beginning of the premier league it was called the FA Premiership because the FA actual has some control over it but they’re bullied or persuaded in other ways into letting do what they want.....same with parachute payments and the EFL....it all needs an overhaul

 

What's in it for the Premier to give up its power? They are obviously in the driving seat it won't give away power and money it would need a higher power to force them to do that. 

 

I can't see the Government stepping in.

[nevthelodgemoorowl]

1 hour ago, Inspector Lestrade said:

 

What's in it for the Premier to give up its power? They are obviously in the driving seat it won't give away power and money it would need a higher power to force them to do that. 

 

I can't see the Government stepping in.

 

How about the FA ?

[Inspector Lestrade]

Just now, nevthelodgemoorowl said:

 

How about the FA ?

 

I presume they have given the power to the Premier 

[nevthelodgemoorowl]

10 minutes ago, Inspector Lestrade said:

 

I presume they have given the power to the Premier 

 

The Big point is though that they still have control of registrations and registration fees. Which I believe should be pro rata to values and income for the greater good of the game. 

[Inspector Lestrade]

1 minute ago, nevthelodgemoorowl said:

 

The Big point is though that they still have control of registrations and registration fees. Which I believe should be pro rata to values and income for the greater good of the game. 

 

That's an outdated ideal.  Not that I don't disagree with it. 

 

 I'm sure the FA came out of it well  Better holidays etc

[nevthelodgemoorowl]

2 minutes ago, Inspector Lestrade said:

 

That's an outdated ideal.  Not that I don't disagree with it. 

 

 I'm sure the FA came out of it well  Better holidays etc

 

Then my hope would be that the TV circus moves on to Spain, France or Germany. Preferably at very short notice !

[Inspector Lestrade]

Just now, nevthelodgemoorowl said:

 

Then my hope would be that the TV circus moves on to Spain, France or Germany. Preferably at very short notice !

 

It's not going to go away far as I can see.  It's had some benefits better stadiums etc, but the game has been taken away from its traditional  fans, maybe we are the dinosaurs. 

 

 

[bigthinrob]

23 hours ago, Owling with laughter said:

Half the Championship gets crowds of 20,000 or above and most of them could probably say they’re crap as well.

Add the fact 25,000 aren’t actually attending matches despite what the ‘official’ attendance says, the ground looks more than half empty and the atmosphere is poor most matches. It doesn’t come across well on the telly. 

 

Add the fact 40,000 can’t attend for big matches, rare as they are, as the capacity is now about 34,000 and you can see Wednesday really aren’t anything special in terms of attraction to the outside world.

 

Wednesday aren’t any more of an attraction to a Prem 2 than they are to the Championship. The reality is a Prem 2 is simply not an attraction in itself. It’d have the same clubs in it is as the Championship. It would be the Championship but with a different name.

 

Unless we’re advocating relegating your Wycombe’s and replacing them with your Sunderland’s. Then stop relegation from it and promotion to it.

 

Good luck with that.

 

Neither Sky or anybody else is going to chuck mega millions at it. If they were they’d be doing it now to the Championship. Neither is the Premier League going to share it’s money amongst more clubs. Why would it?

PL2 is a romantic idea but it’s a ship that has already sailed with the original formation of the Premier League. The Championship should have grabbed the deal offered by the Premier League at the start (25% I seem to remember) 

 

The only solution now is to get into the Premier League and stay there, tough as that is.

Other clubs have done it, Wednesday can do it.

 

 

 

With all due respect, I think you are missing the point, although to be fair it doesn't really matter what name it has.

 

If there was no FFP limit (or a massively revised limit) then a natural selection process would automatically (albeit gradually) start to take place.

 

The 'richer' clubs would be allowed to spend what they want within their capabilities, which would gradually ensure a stronger competition with better quality players (hopefully) which would naturally increase the quality throughout the league.

 

This would ensure a much tighter battle for the promotion places and equip the teams that go up with a better chance of competing once there.

 

The standard & pulling power would automatically improve as did the Prem once it got established.

 

Nobody is saying it would rival the Prem, but it would make the whole shooting match more in line with the Prem's 'allowances' and make for a much more more level playing field.

 

Re revenue streams etc, & Sky "chucking money at it" look for instance at Wayne Rooney going to Derby & the media coverage that produced.  Better players means higher profile means more income.

 

The lure of the Prem would still be the big thing, but the standard of the second tier would gradually become much higher profile & therefore drive revenue automatically.

 

The EFLs 'levelling down' is done & past its sell by date. It doesn't need to be Prem 2 but call it what you will, it can be a whole lot better.