Is It Time For PL2

[Elderly Owl]

10 hours ago, Manwë said:

Show me how the EFL is destroying the league, it's your accusation.  Show me how applying rules of the game is destroying it.  Remember the same rules also created the independence of the panel which found against the EFL on one charge.

 

This is Brexit all over again.  A load of people complaining about rules/laws that we helped create that we don't want applied to ourselves, so let's leave and create new rules where everything is great and in our favour.

Don’t start me on Brexit- I’ll never get the washing up done..

It’s done Manwe, it’s over, The People have spoken. 
 

 

ps Is that Verhofstadt bloke running the EFL now then? That explains a lot!

[ChapSmurf]

9 hours ago, Blue and white said:

With the shitshow that is the EFL destroying our league, is it time to take football in a new direction and introduce PL2.

Also what would be needed to make this happen.

 

As others have said, creating yet another breakaway league would simply destroy lower league football. It's not the answer to the problem, as the problem is the PL, its finances and its disparate governance. Address that latter issue and I think there is a workable solution.

 

The EFL are not destroying our league. Nor do they, as an organisation, have a vendetta against our club. Whether or not the individuals of that organisation do, is unknown, but it clearly it would be highly unprofessional of them if they did and virtually impossible to prove. Did they want to make an example of us? Possibly they did, but not because we are Sheffield Wednesday, but because we didn't follow the rules laid down by the member clubs, of which we are one.

 

They gave us guidance regarding ways to avoid failing Test 3 (P&S Upper Threshold losses of £39M over three periods). We didn't act quick enough, or professionally enough, regarding that guidance and because of that, we have failed our own rules. The EFL could be seen to be destroying our league and its integrity if they didn't act upon that, which they had the right to do.

 

Did the EFL act professionally and diligently at all times? No, they didn't. As far from it as we ourselves acted as football club and a business. Regarding Charge 2, they absolutely failed in their duties as an organisation. Regarding Charge 1, they were, like us, bogged down by the ambiguity of the rules, especially when law was brought in to the mix regarding the Heads of Terms. Had we followed, in a timely manner, their advice to the letter, the EFL wouldn't have brought charges in the first place and if they had, we wouldn't be on -12 points. 

 

Lessons need to be learned from all sides regarding this, and by all sides I mean all football clubs, not just our own. Deeper than the lessons that need to learned are the reasons why clubs like ours, Villa, Derby and Reading, have all tried to find ways around the financial restrictions all member clubs agreed on; an agreement to protect the integrity of the leagues within the EFL and to protect the clubs and bussinesses within. Rules that the EFL are simply trying to uphold on our behalf.

[torryowl]

Do away with parachute payments and you wouldnt need a pl2......

[Daizan10]

10 hours ago, Blue and white said:

With the shitshow that is the EFL destroying our league, is it time to take football in a new direction and introduce PL2.

Also what would be needed to make this happen.

I don't understand how this would help? Surely a re-branding, if it makes any difference at all, is only going to increase television money for the second tier. The lower leagues will just have two bodies to beg scraps off to keep themselves afloat. I also dont understand why changing a leagues name would make the yanks and other nations pay for the rights? But then I never understood why Marathon became Snickers either :D. 

[steelcityowlsfan]

I think the biggest call for a PL2 was born out of frustration at the gulf in money and the fact the relegated PL teams get such a financial advantage. 
 

There would have to be support from the 71 other clubs and that just won’t happen. The moment the PL was created triggered what will be a slow death for many clubs. Sadly it’s just a matter of time because there doesn’t seem to be any duty of care from the football authorities to protect the game. 

[Dick_Turpin]

3 hours ago, happy bunny said:

 

Hi Ricky, hope you're keeping well

 

 

[Guest Therealrealist]

1 hour ago, striker said:

Deby, Charlton, Birmingham, Wigan, Bolton, Bury, Stevenage, Macclesfield...?

So all the teams who have fallen foul of the rules then..

[Buxtongent]

Don't compare the wdnesday case with the Wigan, Bury and Macclesfield cases. It's a completely different issue.

Bury,Wigan and Macc all went into administration ie They went broke! Bury and Macc actually failed to field teams for certain FIXTURES and were unable to fulfil their obligations. Wigan is a slightly different case in that they went broke, and someone very quickly bought them.. 

The Rules as agreed by the clubs, is that a Club entering administration, faces an automatic 12 point deduction and relegation.

In Wednesday's case, it was a case of book keeping Two questions then arise . Was the sale of the ground, to anybody, legitimate? and if so , when should it appear in the books? The penalty applied was not for failing to play, or going broke, but of accounting  and failing the FFP rules on losses. Two completely separate issues

The problem lies not with the Rules but the skewing of finances by the PL due to parachute payments, something that would not go away with a change of name, but with the  demise of this 'self sustaining' attitude to the PL..    

[Dutch McLovin]

11 hours ago, ANDY said:

It’ll never happen

 

the current prem clubs won’t want their moolah diluting down to another 20+ clubs. 
 

if anything they’d prefer a cut in current number of clubs in PL 

See this is the issue... its all premier league driven. The EFL are not fit for purpose but neither are the premier league. A complete overhaul is required so all professional football in this country (and the majority of conference clubs are now professional so this should be included IMO) are run by one new governing body making everything fairer from top to bottom and ensuring that a Bury cannot happen again 

[Blue and white]

2 minutes ago, Dutch McLovin said:

See this is the issue... its all premier league driven. The EFL are not fit for purpose but neither are the premier league. A complete overhaul is required so all professional football in this country (and the majority of conference clubs are now professional so this should be included IMO) are run by one new governing body making everything fairer from top to bottom and ensuring that a Bury cannot happen again 

Post of the week fella.

[sheffsteel]

1 hour ago, steelcityowlsfan said:

I think the biggest call for a PL2 was born out of frustration at the gulf in money and the fact the relegated PL teams get such a financial advantage. 
 

There would have to be support from the 71 other clubs and that just won’t happen. The moment the PL was created triggered what will be a slow death for many clubs. Sadly it’s just a matter of time because there doesn’t seem to be any duty of care from the football authorities to protect the game. 

Don’t think some people understand that a PL2 must be voted in and agreed by the PL and it’s member clubs....it’s not an EFL decision.  So Championship clubs would need to do a report/ presentation explaining how the PL benefit (usually financially) from restructuring into have a PL1 and a PL2.

 

Phil Gartside, the old Bolton Chairman saw how some PL clubs were struggling so much financially (almost going bust) upon relegation due to being contractually obliged to continue paying PL salaries even whilst in the Championship......Gartside wanted to financially protect relegated PL clubs...hence his idea of PL2.

 

It meant a bigger dilution of the PL Sky pot to be shared out amongst PL2 clubs....so all the top half PL clubs were against it.

However an alternative to address the benefits of PL2 was “parachute payments”, which was voted in agreed by the PL clubs.

It means the quality remains high with competitive clubs at the bottom end of the PL, making it stronger and more attractive.

 

A solution would be relegation clauses in players contracts but that would mean promoted clubs won’t be able to compete as no decent players would join them in their first year....fearing an instant pay decrease upon relegation. All the relegation favourites would struggle to compete.. it would become so predictable where all 3 promoted teams would be relegated the following year.

 

Another point is a league couldn’t be created called PL2...without the express permission of the PL and it’s clubs,

The horse has already bolted...there’s now a 2 tier system with both the PL and the EFL only interested in their own clubs.
 

The only time the PL2 will become viable is when the current PL is financially struggling and losing its sparkle....so the PL wish to re structure inviting Celtic/ Rangers and big clubs in the lower leagues but that’s a long way off yet and would spell the death of the EFL.

 

 

 

 

Edited August 18, 2020 by sheffsteel

[striker]

My preference would be to cut the EPL loose, give them the closed shop some want. 

 

Put proper competent governance in place for EFL, distribute funds more evenly and strengthen as it's own brand rather than a poor relation, begging for EPL handouts and beholden to their apparent control. 

 

I genuinly think the bargaining chip of promotion and relegation between leagues strengthens the value of the EFL, if taken away from EPL weakens it. 

[room0035]

12 hours ago, Blue and white said:

With the shitshow that is the EFL destroying our league, is it time to take football in a new direction and introduce PL2.

Also what would be needed to make this happen.

No the problem is the premier league.

 

The spread of wealth 99% at the top and 1% for the remaining 100 team below the EPL

 

We need an organisation that fights for the league not for the best interest of the premier league.

 

Football league chairman need to change the EFL's because they are the ones every year who vote for the rules.

 

BAN PARACHUTE PAYMENT, It is that simple, give every team in the league an equal starting points and the same budget to work with.

[sheffsteel]

17 minutes ago, room0035 said:

 

BAN PARACHUTE PAYMENT, It is that simple, give every team in the league an equal starting points and the same budget to work with.

How can the EFL ban parachute payments?

That’s like the PL wanting a £5K wage cap in league 2.

 

The driver behind FFP isn’t about having clubs on a level playing field....there’s never been a level playing...historically bigger clubs have always had an advantage. The whole point of FFP is to prevent clubs over spending building up massive debt then going into admin. Before FFP several clubs would go into admin every year......after FFP (P&S) clubs going into admin has become rare.

 

The only power the EFL have is to refuse entry for PL who receive parachute payments.

However due to players not accepting major relegation clauses....this would create a problem if relegated PL clubs go into financial meltdown down. You’d have a bizarre situation when some clubs wouldn’t want to be promoted to the PL as it would ruin their clubs.

 

Edited August 18, 2020 by sheffsteel

[Inspector Lestrade]

11 hours ago, 1867Heaven said:

Clearly you are a fake account set up by the EFL cus no one with even a passing interest in sport would think that...

 

 

If you set up another league the exact same clubs would be in it drafting the rules of the league.  

 

Wouldn't they stay more or less with the same rules?  Any tweaks could be made now within the EFL setup.

 

 

[kernowl]

You should know as a Wednesdayite that PL2 will only happen when we are in League One

[One De Bilde]

12 hours ago, Manwë said:

Show me how the EFL is destroying the league, it's your accusation.  Show me how applying rules of the game is destroying it.  Remember the same rules also created the independence of the panel which found against the EFL on one charge.

 

This is Brexit all over again.  A load of people complaining about rules/laws that we helped create that we don't want applied to ourselves, so let's leave and create new rules where everything is great and in our favour.

Jesus christ. Not another moron who draws Brexit comparisons with everything.

[Quist]

12 hours ago, Manwë said:

Nope, it's not time.

 

Nor are the EFL destroying the league.

 

 

 

Their management has been absolutely atrocious. The handling of Bolton and Bury situation was diabolical. 

 

Lower league clubs need benefactors in order to survive.The current policies are not encouraging people to step forward. If you invest in club you want it to succeed if you are prevented from iinvesting what is the point in taking on a club. You either have to get very lucky to get promoted or you overspend and get away with it. Havng a system which gives demoted clubs an unfair advantage is no good for the game.

 

Also Wednesday had many years with no investment and was on bargain basement level. No consideration is given to years of under investment when a new owner takes over. Every  thing was run down so investment far in excess of what would be reuired if we had had regular top ups over previous 10 years.

 

Could I ask if you are employed by EFL in some capacity?

[Bluesteel]

3 hours ago, GMOwl72 said:

Even if it was Wednesday would be ‘lucky’ to get in it. Could see PL reduced to 18 teams and PL2 at a max of 20. We’d be lucky to qualify!

Behave 

[room0035]

34 minutes ago, sheffsteel said:

How can the EFL ban parachute payments?

That’s like the PL wanting a £5K wage cap in league 2.

 

The driver behind FFP isn’t about having clubs on a level playing field....there’s never been a level playing...historically bigger clubs have always had an advantage. The whole point of FFP is to prevent clubs over spending building up massive debt then going into admin. Before FFP several clubs would go into admin every year......after FFP (P&S) clubs going into admin has become rare.

 

The only power the EFL have is to refuse entry for PL who receive parachute payments.

However due to players not accepting major relegation clauses....this would create a problem if relegated PL clubs go into financial meltdown down. You’d have a bizarre situation when some clubs wouldn’t want to be promoted to the PL as it would ruin their clubs.

 

Simple exclude Failure Payments, from the P&S calculations. Relegation clause should be in every players contracts and if it is not, then why should other club suffer because the EPL clubs are not managing their teams correctly. 

 

Every team has the same budget be that £20-40m and every club has to operate within those parameters, if the club breaches them by 1p then then they are prevented from being promoted and the next team down moves up. 

 

The league can be made fairer for all, but first we need independent people running it not former Premier League chairman. Have an EFL board made up of EFL members or even an independent board of both footballing and none footballing people.

 

Nothing will change while the 24 teams in the league and all working to different rules.