BREAKING - Sheffield Wednesday WILL appeal the EFL -12 point deduction!

[Guest Grandad]

30 minutes ago, rickygoo said:

So it turns out those friends who would help us get round FFP were the EFL but we weren't savvy enough to do what they asked us to do. 

[Big Jack]

DC has been advised, I would suspect  by out top lawyer to appeal and I cannot see anything to warrant we should not.

 

I think there is every chance we can get a reduction.

 

Granted we should not be in this mess but it would be stupid just to take the punishment without contesting it,

 

Hope the result will be an overhaul of the rules which are not fit for purpose in their current form,

[sonofbert2]

52 minutes ago, rickygoo said:

So it turns out those friends who would help us get round FFP were the EFL but we weren't savvy enough to do what they asked us to do. 

 

 

[toooldforthis]

2 hours ago, Daizan10 said:

We are arguing they cleared the stadium sale being backdated, meaning we wouldnt have breached it at all. 

 

We are also appealing that the sanction is being applied too late under EFL rules and should have had a points deduction in the 2018/2019 season when we were 24pts clear of relegation.

[toooldforthis]

3 hours ago, N0rtherner said:

 

I don't know about Charlton's own ongoing situation with the accepted transfer of ownership, but seeing as they've got their own worries, maybe they will remain quiet for the time being. Even if they won a legal challenge over this, they could then be in trouble over the ownership situation.. I don't know if that is something the EFL can then penalise with a points deduction too?

 

Yes, my comment was misleading. It means that Charlton could pursue a claim against the EFL

[Ozymandias]

We will line up against Bournemouth this season. A club that breached the rules and got promoted. A £7.6m fine was the penalty.

At the end of the last season they were relegated and received their share of PL cash, £100m. They will also get £43m in parachute payments. £143m to start the campaign to get promoted.

We start on -12 for the same offence.

Thank goodness for FFP to level things out or we really would be up against it.

[areNOTwhatTHEYseem]

2 minutes ago, Ozymandias said:

We will line up against Bournemouth this season. A club that breached the rules and got promoted. A £7.6m fine was the penalty.

At the end of the last season they were relegated and received their share of PL cash, £100m. They will also get £43m in parachute payments. £143m to start the campaign to get promoted.

We start on -12 for the same offence.

Thank goodness for FFP to level things out or we really would be up against it.

 

Exactly.

 

The EFL couldn't organise a p*ssup in a brewery.

[Jimbob1867]

Does anyone know how the appeal works?  It's not clear to me whether if we appeal, the whole case, ie both charges 1 and 2, are up for consideration again.  I assume so.   This could mean it's possible we are at least partially successful in appealing charge 1 and get a reduction in the points deduction, but lose on charge 2, which we won initially, and this be found to be aggravated and so we have up to a further 9 points deducted?

 

Also, when is the deadline for the EFL to appeal?

[Notts Owl]

Thing is, if they have the power to pass the punishment over to a following season then they have the power to back date it to the right season. This would have affected where we finished (but not relegated us) and would have resulted in less money from a placement perspective.

Easy then, fine us the difference and move along. 

[NeonLeon]

2 minutes ago, Jimbob1867 said:

Does anyone know how the appeal works?  It's not clear to me whether if we appeal, the whole case, ie both charges 1 and 2, are up for consideration again.  I assume so.   This could mean it's possible we are at least partially successful in appealing charge 1 and get a reduction in the points deduction, but lose on charge 2, which we won initially, and this be found to be aggravated and so we have up to a further 9 points deducted?

 

Also, when is the deadline for the EFL to appeal?

Charge 1 can only be abolished or kept at 12. Can’t be reduced.

 

As for whether charge 2 is reheard I’m not sure, I’d like to know though!

[Manwë]

 

 

6 minutes ago, Zlin Owl said:

would have resulted in less money from a placement perspective.

 

There is no prize fund for placement in the Championship, all clubs are paid the same.

 

 

[mogbad]

11 minutes ago, Jimbob1867 said:

Does anyone know how the appeal works?  It's not clear to me whether if we appeal, the whole case, ie both charges 1 and 2, are up for consideration again.  I assume so.   This could mean it's possible we are at least partially successful in appealing charge 1 and get a reduction in the points deduction, but lose on charge 2, which we won initially, and this be found to be aggravated and so we have up to a further 9 points deducted?

 

Also, when is the deadline for the EFL to appeal?

According to Dom Howson yesterday the club & the EFL have had the written findings since the 4th August & the deadline for both sides to appeal is tomorrow.

[sheriwozgod]

3 hours ago, Jimbob1867 said:

My two penneth.  I am a lawyer for what it's worth.  

 

Some good points made on this thread about the EFL eg failing to investigate Charge 2 properly, accusing Chansiri of faking how bad his English is, trying to pick when to deduct points so as to relegate us etc.  I won't comment on these further.  

 

HOWEVER - what seems clear to me is what an utter poo show things are in terms of how the club is run.  I also don't think they have a leg to stand on with respect to an appeal.  We brought this on ourselves and it seems to have been totally avoidable if we'd had competent people dealing with this.

 

The club keeps saying they proceeded because they had EFL and auditor sign off.  However: (i) the EFL basically said they would sign off if there was a binding contract before 31 July with sufficiently certain terms (particularly as to price) - and it turns out there wasn't; and (ii) the auditors included an Instructed Assumption that the heads of terms was a binding contract dated 15 July - which, it turns out it wasn't.  In fact it seems the heads of terms, while binding, had insufficient certainty as to price, and was not entered into before 31 July, but was entered into on 15 August and backdated to 15 July.  On that basis I don't think the EFL has done an about turn in relation to what they initially said would be acceptable, which seems to be the crux of our defence (although you can certainly question their motivation for only looking at this months and months later).

 

It's beyond all comprehension why the club thought a backdated contract would be acceptable from a legal point of view.  Apparently the club didn't take any decent legal advice on how to deal with this.  

 

We should have been on top of this well before the deadline and not be relying in August on an email exchange with the EFL to say this was all ok.  We seem to have got away with charge 2 partly because the EFL didn't investigate properly at the time and partly because of our own incompetence ie it seems the heads of terms was backdated but because in emails and meetings after 15 July we made clear there wasn't a binding agreement (why would you do that if you were trying to demonstrate everything had been signed off before 31 July?!) then we can't be guilty of having deliberately misled the EFL.  If we'd just backdated the heads of terms and stuck to the script throughout that it had been signed on 15 July, and not on 15 August as seems to be the case, I think we might have fallen foul of charge 2 as well.

 

There don't appear to be any realistic grounds for a reduction in the points deducted, only that we be found not guilty, which doesn't seem at all likely.  

 

We should just accept this and move on and PLEASE, DC, appoint some competent people to run the club.

 

WTF ??????

[sherlyegg]

3 minutes ago, sheriwozgod said:

It's beyond all comprehension why the club thought a backdated contract would be acceptable from a legal point of view.  Apparently the club didn't take any decent legal advice on how to deal with this.  

Meire is qualified..and super qualified in sports law...so then by your account we have acted illegally...when will the police get involved?

[Manwë]

4 minutes ago, sherlyegg said:

Meire is qualified..and super qualified in sports law...so then by your account we have acted illegally...when will the police get involved?

 

How have you taken what sheriwozgood to have implied anything illegal took place?  And Meire may be the best sports lawyer in the world, but it's not relevant to a property transaction.  

[Swifty75]

28 minutes ago, Jimbob1867 said:

Does anyone know how the appeal works?  It's not clear to me whether if we appeal, the whole case, ie both charges 1 and 2, are up for consideration again.  I assume so.   This could mean it's possible we are at least partially successful in appealing charge 1 and get a reduction in the points deduction, but lose on charge 2, which we won initially, and this be found to be aggravated and so we have up to a further 9 points deducted?

 

Also, when is the deadline for the EFL to appeal?

 

We did not win charge 2, they dropped all charges, when it became apparent there was no case to answer. 

 

It appears that it is correct that we made a mess of the date of the transaction of the ground sale. 

 

What does get to me though is that it appears that they have waited a long time to begin proceedings. It would appear that they were waiting for a season when a 12 point deduction would relegate us, and have made mess of it because the independent panel objected to this approach.

Edited August 17, 2020 by Swifty75

[sherlyegg]

2 minutes ago, Manwë said:

 

How have you taken what sheriwozgood to have implied anything illegal took place?  And Meire may be the best sports lawyer in the world, but it's not relevant to a property transaction.  

Because he said.

'It's beyond all comprehension why the club thought a backdated contract would be acceptable from a legal point of view'

 

He also said we had no legal advice.

Maybe because; to buy and sell something is not normally illegal, and you may have noticed we haven't been charged with selling the ground.

 

 

[asteener1867]

I can't even begin to get me head around all the "legalese"....

Its a strange situation that you can drag it all out through the courts and panels citing "laws" this and "Laws" that...Bournemouth, wolves Villa, escaped by din't of playing football in the "league" above the "league" we are in....Still in football..no points deducted....Cos its "The Prem"

Players can still move freely between the "2" divisions..Yet these clubs are free of guilt and charges?

Its like Bonnie and Clyde robbin' a bank and roaring over the border in a Ford V8

US ?..We get caught halfway through f.ookwit Alabama in a sodding 1.4 litre basta*d Mondeo wiv two flats and a clutch problem.

Its archaic

What happens to Bournemouth now?..back in the state they robbed the bank in aren't they?..Nah..they paid a paltry 4.7 mill to get off the charges....

Edited August 17, 2020 by asteener1867

[dr. benway]

41 minutes ago, NeonLeon said:

Charge 1 can only be abolished or kept at 12. Can’t be reduced.

Really? I would have assumed that it could be reduced on appeal (e.g. by the appeal panel applying “mitigating factors”—I forget the actual terminology, sorry—to the original decision)?

[Guest whowantstoberich]

Regardless of if it's racist or not is not someone can factually state on here, regardless of how high they like to regard there own opinion and push it on others.

 

However, what he is being accused of is absolutely disgusting, and if he feels that they were racist then we should fully get behind him! If he feels it's not racism but dishonesty then we get behind him too. 

 

It is DC's call on if he feels it's racist, not people on here, as we aren't the one's it is aimed at..

 

Good Luck DC. Up The Owls.