First time in a while.....

[Guest]

7 minutes ago, robowl4life said:

Again, they’re all stale and very much the nearly men. Change was needed and well over due especially for the likes of Hutch, FF and Nuhiu.

 

But again you point to players that were not involved much if at all anyway in 2020 so what significant difference will it make?

[Paddyowl]

18 hours ago, parajack said:

Really optimistic & looking forward to the start of the Season.I wasn't really convinced by Bruce's limited time here,(though he proved me wrong.with his Newcastle revival.) & the thought of just seeing the same old faces on the pitch(and often same lack lustre performances)....just left me not convinced we would be good enough with this squad to mount a sustained promotion push.

 

Now even though we have a -12 deduction,and some of the original squad remaining,(still)new signings,fresher legs,a change in Coaching staff(GK Coach much needed!!) & a chance now to rebuild,has left me looking forward to the seasons challenges.

 

Hopefully we can sign a decent few more players before 'kick off' bring back Murphy for another season,get CW back from Palace, & and maybe loan a Premier League team striker,or my preference,sign Kieffer Moore.Time will tell..dont really know why,some will say ime talking sh**e (wouldnt be the first time) But i really do have a good feeling about what this next season will bring   WAWAW

 

I admire your optimism but unfortunately don't share it, 12pts down, no strikers, a depleted squad, a chairman that STILL knows nowt about running a football club and a manager that has achieved nowt, add to that unrest within  the fan base,

 

It's going to be a long long season.

[Sefton owl]

18 hours ago, parajack said:

Really optimistic & looking forward to the start of the Season.I wasn't really convinced by Bruce's limited time here,(though he proved me wrong.with his Newcastle revival.) & the thought of just seeing the same old faces on the pitch(and often same lack lustre performances)....just left me not convinced we would be good enough with this squad to mount a sustained promotion push.

 

Now even though we have a -12 deduction,and some of the original squad remaining,(still)new signings,fresher legs,a change in Coaching staff(GK Coach much needed!!) & a chance now to rebuild,has left me looking forward to the seasons challenges.

 

Hopefully we can sign a decent few more players before 'kick off' bring back Murphy for another season,get CW back from Palace, & and maybe loan a Premier League team striker,or my preference,sign Kieffer Moore.Time will tell..dont really know why,some will say ime talking sh**e (wouldnt be the first time) But i really do have a good feeling about what this next season will bring   WAWAW

 

Convinced by a  journeyman of a manager with no decent record in this division, yet weren’t convinced by a manager with proven success... Ok

[Sham67]

16 hours ago, BRADDO said:

Our form since Christmas, poor football, frees and loans coming in. Massive gaps in the squad and 12 points to make up. It's going to be another struggle to get the 65 points needed. 

 

65 points?

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, Dagmeister's Shadow said:

Fletcher, Hutchinson, Nuhiu,Lee, Forestieri, Winnall,Fox and likely Westwood does represent a significant clearout. Whether we'd have liked to have kept a couple is not the point IMO. There are now berths to be filled and there is a hefty chunk of wages taken off the bill to help facilitate this. OK Westwood is still on the payroll but hopefully that'll soon be resolved and a portion of his wages at least saved. 

I wouldn't be totally surprised if Reach was traded in the window but that's just my musing.

Whatever the roles played last season by the seven definitely gone they're bodies and hefty wages out of the club creating spaces and resources for incomings. The clearout started last summer but was badly affected by the Bruce shenanigans. This summer is a big step along that path IMO but obviously still requires a good window incomings wise.

 

A clearout of sorts but what I'm responding to is the removal of 'deadwood'

 

Losing the only striker capable of influencing positives results regularly last season doesn't equate to shifting deadwood in my opinion.

A wasn't convinced by Fox turning into Maldini as some would have us believe but he had improved and again can hardly be regarded as 'deadwood'

Westwood is far from being resolved and not sure it will happen any sooner now he is sat on big wages with 1 year left - nobody likely to pay a fee, only solution I can see is if the club pay him up.

Lee and Nuhiu were good professionals who did a dcent job at times last season, far from the biggest earners, far from 'deadwood' and not easily replaced given our lack of options up top.

Huthcinson and Forestieri could be put into the category perhaps based on alleged attitude for the former and what he has produced for the latter. However, Hutchinson had completely left the club as of February, in that respect, this 'deadwood' had gone by that point but results got worse. Forestieri was seldom involved under Monk.

 

Yes it is a saving on wages but we are hardly in a position to go wild in that respect and are more likely to save chunks of this money than reinvest it directly into the team. 

 

For all those saying the players were at fault and a clear out will significantly help Monk and give him the chance to do better with his own players - as things stand he currently has 12/13 players who he picked in squads regularly last season without much success. 

 

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, Sham67 said:

 

65 points?

 

Might be a bit higher than is needed but always best to set a minimum aim that should guarantee safety. Anything less than 60 with the 12 point deduction would have us in big trouble of dropping. 

[Sham67]

23 minutes ago, hirstyboywonder said:

 

Might be a bit higher than is needed but always best to set a minimum aim that should guarantee safety. Anything less than 60 with the 12 point deduction would have us in big trouble of dropping. 

 

65 points would have seen us relegated once in the last 20 years(2012-13).  60 points would have  seen us relegated a further 5 times in the same period.  55 points would have been enough for safety in 8 seasons and 53 points would have seen us safe in 5 of those. 

[Guest]

11 minutes ago, Dagmeister's Shadow said:

Agreed I avoided the word deadwood deliberately. Like I said much depends on how good a window we have but whilst we may still have a dozen squad players from last season the outgoings last summer and this provides far more scope to reshape things than would have  been the case had we not shifted the high waged and by and large poor value for money leavers.

 

So 12/13 players he picked regularly but couldn't get  decent tune out of and 3 of the players he has lost in Fletcher, Murphy and Fox were among his best performers, as I say, hardly a clearing of deadwood and a fresh start.

 

Good luck selling the club in its current guise to bring in players of significantly better quality than what we have lost over the next 3 or 4 weeks. 

 

What are our selling points to prospective players?

Would I be joining a club starting on a level playing field with a chance of success? Not exactly, we are 12 points behind before a ball is kicked.

Did the manager show signs of a clear approach and improvement to build on last season? Well no, we ended the season with 4 wins and 17 points from 23 games and a change in formation didn't stop us leaking goals all too easily.

But the manager has got rid of the deadwood and will be reshaping the team completely to turn this around wont he? Well he's got rid of a couple of 'bad eggs' but he had already cast these players aside anyway so the basis of the squad is formed by many of the players he picked last season and he has lost his top scorer, most creative wide threat and most improved defender.

 

We have added James Beattie though so its not all doom and gloom.

 

 

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, Sham67 said:

 

65 points would have seen us relegated once in the last 20 years(2012-13).  60 points would have  seen us relegated a further 5 times in the same period.  55 points would have been enough for safety in 8 seasons and 53 points would have seen us safe in 5 of those. 

 

Fair enough, like I said I agree 65 points that were stated was somewhat over cautious, this is Wednesday we are talking about though. 60 points with 12 deducted wouldn't have kept us up the last time we were relegated and when we were relegated in 1990 it was with the most points from the top flight. 

Now we are going to be under the cosh you just have to consider worst case scenario. 

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, Dagmeister's Shadow said:

I'm not using phrases like deadwood or bad eggs. I'm not rehashing last season either. I'm saying that we've released a lot of high earners these last two summers. I welcome this.

How we utilise our resources now in terms of recruitment and next season in terms of performances remains to be seen.

 

Fine, but you replied to me and I was replying to people who did use these terms.

 

What do you think our selling points are in looking to make significant improvements to the squad in the 4 weeks we have until we start trying to play catch up? 

[robowl4life]

1 hour ago, hirstyboywonder said:

 

But again you point to players that were not involved much if at all anyway in 2020 so what significant difference will it make?

They were still here, part of the club. 

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, Dagmeister's Shadow said:

I replied in a specific way to a specific point.

The notional selling points to potential new recruits I'll leave to our recruitment team and see how successful they are in utilising the spaces and finances created by the outgoings.

 

 

Can't offer an opinion on what they may be then? This is a thread started because the OP has reasons to be positive for the first time in a while ahead of this new season afterall.

[parajack]

1 hour ago, Sefton owl said:

Convinced by a  journeyman of a manager with no decent record in this division, yet weren’t convinced by a manager with proven success... Ok

So? you & others who extoll Bruces virtues forget very easily his early Career,and 4 Clubs in 3 years,before getting the 'success' you(and others) rave about....I was right to have reservations about Bruce,wasnt I?  just not for the reasons i thought..(looked tired,to me,and thought maybe he had left the success behind him,had his 'best' days..And his choice to stay on Holiday & send the two 'Steve's in Concerned me...just wasnt convinced he was the right man...

Bruce stayed for 18 matchs &  left us.......still he has his 'fans'   Why mention a Manager who didnt stay to finish a job? & compare him to one who has?  

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, robowl4life said:

They were still here, part of the club. 

 

Hutchinson wasn't, he was nowhere near, Nuhiu although never likely to be first choice did a decent job at times and was always willing and available and has been praised by the younger players for his positive influence, hardly deadwood. 

That just leaves Forestieri in this major clear out of 'deadwood'.

[BRADDO]

1 hour ago, Sham67 said:

 

65 points?

 

53 pts to just about guarantee safety mate. Obviously with the 12 deduction 

[robowl4life]

10 minutes ago, hirstyboywonder said:

 

Hutchinson wasn't, he was nowhere near, Nuhiu although never likely to be first choice did a decent job at times and was always willing and available and has been praised by the younger players for his positive influence, hardly deadwood. 

That just leaves Forestieri in this major clear out of 'deadwood'.

Point is they’ve been here years and have all gone stale including Bullen etc. It’s time to move on from your “fan favourites”. Let it go, it’s time to move on from the likes of Nuhiu. 

[parajack]

7 minutes ago, hirstyboywonder said:

 

Hutchinson wasn't, he was nowhere near, Nuhiu although never likely to be first choice did a decent job at times and was always willing and available and has been praised by the younger players for his positive influence, hardly deadwood. 

That just leaves Forestieri in this major clear out of 'deadwood'.

I can see where your coming from,...but as i said it takes time. agree about Nuhiu, but...Winnall?,gone too,Westwood?(here but nowhere near the first team squad) Hutchinson's name has been referenced as a major influence for long enough....There is the wider point of Players being jaded and too comfortable,as part of a squad of Players.(not 'Deadwood' but jaded? Reach? Lee's?)

 

Fletcher & Fox,as an example,i wouldnt consider 'deadwood' but there time at the Club maybe needed to be ended,to allow others to come.

Its the 'sum of the parts,equals the whole'......

[Sham67]

7 minutes ago, BRADDO said:

 

53 pts to just about guarantee safety mate. Obviously with the 12 deduction 

 

Only once in the last 20 years has a team gone down with 53 points or more.

[BRADDO]

1 minute ago, Sham67 said:

 

Only once in the last 20 years has a team gone down with 53 points or more.

 

Agreed. I was being overly cautious. If we assume that the regular 50 pts should do it then we are aiming for around 62 pts. Not impossible but recruitment must be good on a shoe string budget and our awful form must be rectified. 

[Guest]

12 minutes ago, robowl4life said:

Point is they’ve been here years and have all gone stale including Bullen etc. It’s time to move on from your “fan favourites”. Let it go, it’s time to move on from the likes of Nuhiu. 

 

Don't necessarily disagree on Nuhiu,not deadwood though as you referred to and having 12/13 players that Monk used regularly as the basis of the squad doesn't quite equate to the 'fresh start' you referred to either.