The new signings - sign of things to come

[SallyCinnamon]

8 hours ago, bigdan2003 said:

There has definitely been a change in thinking in the last 12 to 18 months. Iorfa, Borner, Moses, Harris, Loungo, Dunkley, Fisayo all for a combined fee of about 1.5 million. Plus the use of the loan market. 

All very average players though. You get what you pay for. Iorfa has proven to be a steal, but Harris, Moses, Luongo, Borner are not of the same quality of the players we signed when DC first came in. 

[The Night-Owl]

1 minute ago, SallyCinnamon said:

All very average players though. You get what you pay for. Iorfa has proven to be a steal, but Harris, Moses, Luongo, Borner are not of the same quality of the players we signed when DC first came in. 

 

I disagree but agree about Iorfa. He's a solid smart signing. Luongo we need to see more of but he's been solid at this level in the past, I expect and hope to see more of him, also Harris was a clever signing and after more involvement in his first season, he may kick on. We need more smart signings like that and we need to be clever with the loan market and find some more athletic and vibrant young players.

 

Hopefully we'll develop a good mix of battlers and athletic players. We need a midfield beast still however and we're light attacking wise but there are some hopeful signs with the recent signings to be fair. Perhaps harsh lessons from mistakes have finally been learnt from, time will tell but if we stay up hopefully we can then kick on. 

[gurujuan]

8 hours ago, bigdan2003 said:

There has definitely been a change in thinking in the last 12 to 18 months. Iorfa, Borner, Moses, Harris, Loungo, Dunkley, Fisayo all for a combined fee of about 1.5 million. Plus the use of the loan market. 

I think what you mean Dan, is we’ve been a bit more prudent in the market. We have, but Iorfa apart, the rest are pretty average However, we could get away with that, if we were to supplement with a bit of quality through the loan market. That is one area where we need to massively improve, only really Hector has been a major success. Murphy also showed a bit of quality after a slow start. Bates, Da Cruz, Wickham and Windass, all meh. 

[SallyCinnamon]

23 minutes ago, The Night-Owl said:

 

I disagree but agree about Iorfa. He's a solid smart signing. Luongo we need to see more of but he's been solid at this level in the past, I expect and hope to see more of him, also Harris was a clever signing and after more involvement in his first season, he may kick on. We need more smart signings like that and we need to be clever with the loan market and find some more athletic and vibrant young players.

 

Hopefully we'll develop a good mix of battlers and athletic players. We need a midfield beast still however and we're light attacking wise but there are some hopeful signs with the recent signings to be fair. Perhaps harsh lessons from mistakes have finally been learnt from, time will tell but if we stay up hopefully we can then kick on. 

Luongo for me isn’t as good as Sam Hutchinson in his prime. Not seen anything from him to suggest he’s an nothing but an average Champ midfielder.

 

Borner is a downgrade on Loovens, Venancio and Hector. 
 

Harris plenty of effort but a one trick pony and he was pretty woeful second half of the season. 
 

Odubajo hasn’t been great.
 

Look I hope they all prove me wrong but to me our squad is bang average Championship. No one with any real quality with the exception of Bannan. We are far of the team we assembled in 2015/16. With -12 I fear the worst, unless we bring some real quality in to guide us to safety. Hoping free transfers and lower league players will keep us afloat is quite optimistic. 

Edited August 14, 2020 by SallyCinnamon

[pazowl55]

18 minutes ago, gurujuan said:

I think what you mean Dan, is we’ve been a bit more prudent in the market. We have, but Iorfa apart, the rest are pretty average However, we could get away with that, if we were to supplement with a bit of quality through the loan market. That is one area where we need to massively improve, only really Hector has been a major success. Murphy also showed a bit of quality after a slow start. Bates, Da Cruz, Wickham and Windass, all meh. 

Not Jacob Butterfield 

 

 

 

 

[pazowl55]

1 minute ago, SallyCinnamon said:

Luongo for me isn’t as good as Sam Hutchinson in his prime. Not seen anything from him to suggest he’s an average Champ midfielder.

 

Borner is a downgrade on Loovens, Venancio and Hector. 
 

Harris plenty of effort but a one trick pony and he was pretty woeful second half of the season. 
 

Odubajo hasn’t been great.
 

Look I hope they all prove me wrong but to me our squad is bang average Championship. No one with any real quality with the exception of Bannan. We are far of the team we assembled in 2015/16. With -12 I fear the worst, unless we bring some real quality in to guide us to safety. Hoping free transfers and lower league players will keep us afloat is quite optimistic. 

Agree on the whole but think we will stay up. Going to be some proper poor teams this season in the championship and a few more probably with points deductions aswell.

[gurujuan]

3 minutes ago, SallyCinnamon said:

Luongo for me isn’t as good as Sam Hutchinson in his prime. Not seen anything from him to suggest he’s an average Champ midfielder.

 

Borner is a downgrade on Loovens, Venancio and Hector. 
 

Harris plenty of effort but a one trick pony and he was pretty woeful second half of the season. 
 

Odubajo hasn’t been great.
 

Look I hope they all prove me wrong but to me our squad is bang average Championship. No one with any real quality with the exception of Bannan. We are far of the team we assembled in 2015/16. With -12 I fear the worst, unless we bring some real quality in to guide us to safety. Hoping free transfers and lower league players will keep us afloat is quite optimistic. 

When we are signing players our relegation rivals deem not good enough for them, then we are in big trouble

Edited August 14, 2020 by gurujuan

[pazowl55]

3 minutes ago, gurujuan said:

When we are signing players our relegation rivals deem not good enough for them, then we are in big trouble

You mean Dunkley. Don't think they had much say in the sale to be honest. Or should I say his release.

Edited August 14, 2020 by pazowl55

[gurujuan]

Just now, pazowl55 said:

You mean Dunkley. Don't think they had much say in the sale to be honest.

No I didn’t mean Dunkley, I think he’s a decent option at the back. It was in relation to people suggesting we should look at Windass and Gregory

[wednesdaywizard]

Excellent.  These two photos definitely make these two look like players.

[SallyCinnamon]

4 minutes ago, gurujuan said:

When we are signing players our relegation rivals deem not good enough for them, then we are in big trouble

I think Dunkley is a decent signing on a free. But on the whole it’s going to be a struggle to attract players of quality. We’re going to have to rely on effort and team spirit to try and keep us up in my opinion. 
 

It just saddens me to see how far we’ve gone backwards over the past 5 years. We had one of the best sides in the League but now have one of the worst and start next season on -12.

[pazowl55]

Just now, gurujuan said:

No I didn’t mean Dunkley, I think he’s a decent option at the back. It was in relation to people suggesting we should look at Windass and Gregory

I want whoever Monk thinks can do a job to be honest. Whoever that may be.

 

Think the days of us getting a Brewster or Nketiah quality of player on loan are long gone if I am being honest. Not that they were ever here in the first place. Because clubs dont send us their prize youngsters.

[gurujuan]

1 minute ago, SallyCinnamon said:

I think Dunkley is a decent signing on a free. But on the whole it’s going to be a struggle to attract players of quality. We’re going to have to rely on effort and team spirit to try and keep us up in my opinion. 
 

It just saddens me to see how far we’ve gone backwards over the past 5 years. We had one of the best sides in the League but now have one of the worst and start next season on -12.

Again, I wasn’t referring to Dunkley, I actually think him and the young lad are decent signings. Where my positivity wains, is when players like Gregory and Windass are suggested

[SallyCinnamon]

Just now, gurujuan said:

Again, I wasn’t referring to Dunkley, I actually think him and the young lad are decent signings. Where my positivity wains, is when players like Gregory and Windass are suggested

Both bang average agreed. But that’s the market we’re in now. 

[pazowl55]

3 minutes ago, SallyCinnamon said:

Both bang average agreed. But that’s the market we’re in now. 

On paper they are not the most overwhelming signings. But they literally could be anything for us. How many thought Iorfa would do as well as he did.

[gurujuan]

1 minute ago, pazowl55 said:

I want whoever Monk thinks can do a job to be honest. Whoever that may be.

 

Think the days of us getting a Brewster or Nketiah quality of player on loan are long gone if I am being honest. Not that they were ever here in the first place. Because clubs dont send us their prize youngsters.

Why is that do you think? Is it the way we play the game? Huddersfield transformed their fortunes the other year by using the loan market to good a effect They were a workmanlike side, fighting at the wrong end of the table, when they decided to go out and fetch half a dozen loanees. The likes of Aaron Mooy and Izzy Brown gave them a major boost in quality. They just kept it tight, and relied on the extra quality provided by the loanees to see them home They even got away without having a prolific goalscorer

[pazowl55]

1 minute ago, gurujuan said:

Why is that do you think? Is it the way we play the game? Huddersfield transformed their fortunes the other year by using the loan market to good a effect They were a workmanlike side, fighting at the wrong end of the table, when they decided to go out and fetch half a dozen loanees. The likes of Aaron Mooy and Izzy Brown gave them a major boost in quality. They just kept it tight, and relied on the extra quality provided by the loanees to see them home They even got away without having a prolific goalscorer

I agree but we ain't getting a Aaron Mooy on loan is my point. We will be getting in loan players where its 50/50 if they are any good or not. Its how we have always been. We are not a good destination for young players looking to progress ( proper good ones I mean) clubs have only lent us decent players because we have paid top dollar for them.

[gurujuan]

8 minutes ago, pazowl55 said:

I agree but we ain't getting a Aaron Mooy on loan is my point. We will be getting in loan players where its 50/50 if they are any good or not. Its how we have always been. We are not a good destination for young players looking to progress ( proper good ones I mean) clubs have only lent us decent players because we have paid top dollar for them.

My question is, why do you think that is? How were struggling Wigan able to attract James and Robinson, two of the best youngsters around, the season before last? There is always a cost with borrowing players, but clubs are far more likely to subsidise a young player they want to see gaining experience. I think it’s because we are always looking for experienced players, and don’t want to take a chance on talented youngsters. It’s always been our transfer strategy, so I’m sure it’s no different when using the loan market

Edited August 14, 2020 by gurujuan

[pazowl55]

2 minutes ago, gurujuan said:

My question is, why do you think that is? How were struggling Wigan able to attract James and Robinson, two of the best youngsters around, the season before last? There is always a cost with borrowing players, but clubs are far more likely to subsidise a young player they want to see gaining experience. I think it’s because we are always looking for experienced players, and don’t want to take a chance on talented youngsters. It’s always been our transfer strategy, so I’m sure it’s no different when using the loan market

Yeah would agree with that. Probably not helped in the past by loaning players from certain clubs  Eg Chelsea  eg Smith and Baker and then just not playing or helping them to better themselves dont help things.  

 

Our style maybe 

 

Our coaches maybe not being the right kind of coach for them. Or just not very good ones.

 

Our facilities being outdated 

 

Our hostile crowd booing you after two bad passes.

 

Who knows but it doesn't happen does it. We dont get the good loan signings unless we pay a premium.

 

Think we will try to go with more youth now though as Dele Bashiru has shown. And even with the loan signings.

 

 But it really is a throw of a coin if they are any good or not.

[gurujuan]

5 minutes ago, pazowl55 said:

Yeah would agree with that. Probably not helped in the past by loaning players from certain clubs  Eg Chelsea  eg Smith and Baker and then just not playing or helping them to better themselves dont help things.  

 

Our style maybe 

 

Our coaches maybe not being the right kind of coach for them. Or just not very good ones.

 

Our facilities being outdated 

 

Our hostile crowd booing you after two bad passes.

 

Who knows but it doesn't happen does it. We dont get the good loan signings unless we pay a premium.

 

Think we will try to go with more youth now though as Dele Bashiru has shown. And even with the loan signings.

 

 But it really is a throw of a coin if they are any good or not.

I’d take the throw of a coin gamble, over bringing players who I already know are no better than what we already have