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6 hours ago, cookeh said:

 

Nando and Fletch were going, no argument there.

 

Winnal is still a weird one. You say he's "proved not to be good enough", but scored bucket loads right before he joined us, and had a decent return at Derby on loan, to the point they wanted to buy him outright. As with many players in recent years, the problem doesn't seem to be with him so much as how we use him. Obvious parallels to Rhodes here.. they're similar players who in other teams have got goals by getting on the end of things.. but here they both faltered. In the end I imagine Winnall had no interest in a new deal as he probably wants to play and Monk bought in 2 guys on loan to keep him out the side, Monk giving Winnall just one 90 minutes all season in the league, not exactly giving the guy a fair shake under a new manager, eh? Meanwhile, Windass and Wickham's goals combined gained us just 4 points. So is Winnall a capable player? Yes. Will he score double figures in the coming season? Very likely. Why didn't we keep him? Garry Monk.

 

Rhodes is basically in the same boat as Winnall. Monk didn't give him 90 minutes in the league, not once. The first got any significant time on the pitch was at Derby and he scored a hatty in the very next game. But Monk had him back on the bench 3 games later and then left him out entirely. Rhodes' goals per minute is (i think) more than double Wickham's for the season. We all know strikers are confidence based and that they need game time to get into the groove, why was Rhodes never afforded that chance to have a run in the team? Garry Monk.

 

Nuhiu, you obviously know more about Atdhe's personal life than me.. but no contract was offered to him, so he didn't have the option of signing or rejecting it. So again he's a guy who Monk has pushed down the pecking order by bringing in 2 loanees in his position and then played both more than him. We then don't offer him a deal. What would your conclusion in you were in Adthe's shoes? You'd be off because the manager clearly doesn't rate you. How many league 90 minutes did Adthe get? Just 5. Bringing in a goal and 2 assists from them, not bad. Adthe's GpM was 237. Which over an average season is 15 odd goals. So does he have something to offer? Yes. Why is he no longer a Wednesday player? Garry Monk.

 

Borukov, had a good scoring record in the youth teams, and Monk himself put him on the bench earlier in the year. How you go from that to "bin that 20 year old off on a free, he's trash", I'm not sure. He must have had something about him if Monk had him on the bench. His wage can't have been huge, so to deny ourselves the option without him having kicked a ball is bizarre. Who will have made that decision tho? Garry Monk.

 

So yeah, we're left with 1 striker, who the manager has made clear is lower on the pecking order than a 2nd rate wigan reject.

But none of this is Monk's fault.

 

 No I agree with you...it's  not often that we get that level of football expertise on here...Borukov 🤣🤣🤣

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Think he’s already been tried as a striker in his career and because of his poor goals return has then drifted to a wide position. Happens to a LOT of players who’s goals return is poor, they then morph into a wide attacker.

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37 minutes ago, RUMBELOWS91 said:

Frightening pace?

 

Must have missed that. 

He is very quick, but perhaps lacks composure. That’s why I feel his best use is that of an impact sub from the bench. He could be a handful against tiring defenders, and his end product would certainly be better if he played on his strongest side. I’d willingly sacrifice the odd goal scored when he cuts in from the left, for a stream of assists on his better foot. Please, no more of this LWB nonsense, play to the mans strengths for heavens sake It’s simple really

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4 hours ago, gurujuan said:

He is very quick, but perhaps lacks composure. That’s why I feel his best use is that of an impact sub from the bench. He could be a handful against tiring defenders, and his end product would certainly be better if he played on his strongest side. I’d willingly sacrifice the odd goal scored when he cuts in from the left, for a stream of assists on his better foot. Please, no more of this LWB nonsense, play to the mans strengths for heavens sake It’s simple really

Quick.over the first couple of yards. That's it.

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When he gets on a run and turns their team back towards their goal.. the whole team needs the positivity and fitness to join him in the attack.

Rather than think it's a good time for a breather.

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On 14/08/2020 at 13:08, cookeh said:

 

Nando and Fletch were going, no argument there.

 

Winnal is still a weird one. You say he's "proved not to be good enough", but scored bucket loads right before he joined us, and had a decent return at Derby on loan, to the point they wanted to buy him outright. As with many players in recent years, the problem doesn't seem to be with him so much as how we use him. Obvious parallels to Rhodes here.. they're similar players who in other teams have got goals by getting on the end of things.. but here they both faltered. In the end I imagine Winnall had no interest in a new deal as he probably wants to play and Monk bought in 2 guys on loan to keep him out the side, Monk giving Winnall just one 90 minutes all season in the league, not exactly giving the guy a fair shake under a new manager, eh? Meanwhile, Windass and Wickham's goals combined gained us just 4 points. So is Winnall a capable player? Yes. Will he score double figures in the coming season? Very likely. Why didn't we keep him? Garry Monk.

 

Rhodes is basically in the same boat as Winnall. Monk didn't give him 90 minutes in the league, not once. The first got any significant time on the pitch was at Derby and he scored a hatty in the very next game. But Monk had him back on the bench 3 games later and then left him out entirely. Rhodes' goals per minute is (i think) more than double Wickham's for the season. We all know strikers are confidence based and that they need game time to get into the groove, why was Rhodes never afforded that chance to have a run in the team? Garry Monk.

 

Nuhiu, you obviously know more about Atdhe's personal life than me.. but no contract was offered to him, so he didn't have the option of signing or rejecting it. So again he's a guy who Monk has pushed down the pecking order by bringing in 2 loanees in his position and then played both more than him. We then don't offer him a deal. What would your conclusion in you were in Adthe's shoes? You'd be off because the manager clearly doesn't rate you. How many league 90 minutes did Adthe get? Just 5. Bringing in a goal and 2 assists from them, not bad. Adthe's GpM was 237. Which over an average season is 15 odd goals. So does he have something to offer? Yes. Why is he no longer a Wednesday player? Garry Monk.

 

Borukov, had a good scoring record in the youth teams, and Monk himself put him on the bench earlier in the year. How you go from that to "bin that 20 year old off on a free, he's trash", I'm not sure. He must have had something about him if Monk had him on the bench. His wage can't have been huge, so to deny ourselves the option without him having kicked a ball is bizarre. Who will have made that decision tho? Garry Monk.

 

So yeah, we're left with 1 striker, who the manager has made clear is lower on the pecking order than a 2nd rate wigan reject.

But none of this is Monk's fault.

 

 

Of all the things that can be put at Monk's door, this isn't one of them.

 

Monk isn't our first manager that has been unable to get anything consistent out of Rhodes & Winnall. Nando & Fletch as you say were not likely to stay and their wages could not be justified so again nothing to do with Monk.

Nuhiu might yet return, who knows, I wouldn't mind having him as a squad player but a change might be just as good for him and us. Borukov didn't have a great season this time around with the academy did he? Not sure he was ready to be relied upon for first team Championship football and I would imagine his next move will reflect that.

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On 14/08/2020 at 12:07, cookeh said:

 

I think Nuhiu was ok as a player off the bench, and he's had times where he's consistently been a good championship level striker.

 

He hasn’t though has he...at best he’s had one half decent quarter season in 7 years.

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It's a bit off to say that Harris is not quick, he is.

 

He has other attributes you could attack and say he is poor at before you suggest he is not rapid, and moreso, rapid with the ball at his feet.

 

 

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On 14/08/2020 at 09:53, Alan said:

Problem.. He can't shoot. 


Yeah but apparently being a centre forward is not about scoring goals.

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To be honest I was thinking about this last night, especially if the rumour Murphy may be coming back is true. 

 

It looks like we're going to be stuck with Rhodes going into the new season. 

We've played him alongside a target man such as fletch, Nuhiu and Winnall. He's played with a very good link striker in hooper. He's even played alongside a creative forward in Nando, but it hasn't worked out with any of these scenarios. 

 

Plated in a two alongside Harris (Murphy if he does come back). 

Having a player run past defenders, into the channels, drifting out wide pulling cb's out of position may create little pockets of space to exploit, which was what he used to be very good at. 

Since we've had him here we've mainly  played an incredibly slow build up pedestrian pace under Carlos. We've used a long ball punt and run off a big man. We've even used wingers, but playing them inverted means they all too often stop the attack dead to cross a ball giving defenders time to pick players up.

The thing is neither of these were effective at creating pockets of space in and around the box or stretching defences. 

 

I may be clutching at straws, but it's the only thing we Havnt really tried. 

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