Appeal

[longreach]

On 12/08/2020 at 10:44, punkskaphil said:

Oof. I’d be gutted to be out there and unable to dive. Had a few dive holidays in Sharm and Dahab, and dived the Thistlegorm a few times. Love it, but I haven’t done it for a few years now.

Well, next time you're thinking or returning let me know, you can use our apartment (sleeps 4) plus I can arrange diving, snorkeling and fishing trips for you. PM if you're interested. 

Obviously good rates for Owlstalkers

[bladeshater]

1 minute ago, longreach said:

Well, next time you're thinking or returning let me know, you can use our apartment (sleeps 4) plus I can arrange diving, snorkeling and fishing trips for you. PM if you're interested. 

Obviously good rates for Owlstalkers

If you have owt in Scarborough pm me

[Quist]

I think Wednesday have now received written decision. 

 

The EFL not publishing the decison will raise eyebrows. If it was clear cut it would surely have been published. You have to assume the it is not something EFL want to see in public domain. Allegations they made against Wednesday were all found to be false 

 

Wednesday had top lawyer and they were convinced their was no charge to answer and you can see from statement they were not happy. 

 

Just a feeling more mileage in this.

[OxonOwl]

Once the written decision has been sent to us and the EFL we both have a period of time to decide whether to appeal. 

 

The independent panel, the EFL and us are are not going to publish during this period.

 

If there is an appeal, it will probably be sub judice and so no public publishment until after the appeal has sat and decided.

[Buxtongent]

Much as \i dislike the 12 point deduction, I cannot, for the life of me, see how one can appeal a 'final decision of an indepenenty panel'. It's a bit like complaining whenre the hangman has placed the Knot, when he's put the noose on your head.

In any dispute, there must come a stage where the 'Final' decision is precisely that.Final. Finished.Finitto or whateverf.

When the Grim Reaper makes his appearance, you can't say 'Hang on a minute, I don't gree with the decision.' 

[HarrowbyOwl]

56 minutes ago, Buxtongent said:

Much as \i dislike the 12 point deduction, I cannot, for the life of me, see how one can appeal a 'final decision of an indepenenty panel'. It's a bit like complaining whenre the hangman has placed the Knot, when he's put the noose on your head.

In any dispute, there must come a stage where the 'Final' decision is precisely that.Final. Finished.Finitto or whateverf.

When the Grim Reaper makes his appearance, you can't say 'Hang on a minute, I don't gree with the decision.' 

It's not that hard to understand but there's been too much loose talk about 'independent panels' that has confused everybody.

Under the EFL regulations there are 3 types of so-called 'panels' - Disciplinary Commissions, League Arbitration Panels, and Player Related Dispute Commissions.
Collectively they are called tribunals.

 

We were referred to a Disciplianry Commission, which may consist of a panel of three (Chairperson and two 'side members', one nominated by the League (the ‘Claimant’) and one by the charged club (the ‘Respondent’). But if the parties agree to have the case heard before a chairperson only there needn't be any side members, so the Disciplinary Commission becomes a 'panel' of one. 

 

Rule 94.1 states that either party can appeal against an decision of the Disciplinary Commission (a ‘Disciplinary Appeal’). Appeals are heard before a League Arbitration Panel, constituted in much the same was a Disciplibary Commission. There is no right of appeal against a League Arbitration Panel decision and little to no scope to take things further by going through the courts.

[steelowl]

I assume the 2 weeks to appeal starts from both parties receiving the full detailed decision ?

 

[HarrowbyOwl]

2 hours ago, steelowl said:

I assume the 2 weeks to appeal starts from both parties receiving the full detailed decision ?

 

That seems to be the prevailing wisdom but the regulations actually say:

94.3 Any party wishing to bring a Disciplinary Appeal must, within 14 days of the making of the final order by the Disciplinary Commission (or such other shorter time period as ordered in accordance with the provisions of Regulation 92.5), serve on The League and any other party to the original proceedings:

94.3.1 written notice of the intention to bring a Disciplinary Appeal;

etc, etc.

 

"within 14 days of the making of the final order" seems to be the relevant bit. The final order would seem to me to be the supended 12 point deduction.

I'm assuming that the club received the full written decision on the 31st when the 'final order' was announced, so today is the deadline for lodging an appeal.

I doubt that we'll ever see the written reasons. Too many sensiblities on the line - accountants/auditors, valuers, 'personal misconduct' by individuals, etc.

[wellbeaten-the-owl]

1 minute ago, HarrowbyOwl said:

That seems to be the prevailing wisdom but the regulations actually say:

94.3 Any party wishing to bring a Disciplinary Appeal must, within 14 days of the making of the final order by the Disciplinary Commission (or such other shorter time period as ordered in accordance with the provisions of Regulation 92.5), serve on The League and any other party to the original proceedings:

94.3.1 written notice of the intention to bring a Disciplinary Appeal;

etc, etc.

 

"within 14 days of the making of the final order" seems to be the relevant bit. The final order would seem to me to be the supended 12 point deduction.

I'm assuming that the club received the full written decision on the 31st when the 'final order' was announced, so today is the deadline for lodging an appeal.

I doubt that we'll ever see the written reasons. Too many sensiblities on the line - accountants/auditors, valuers, 'personal misconduct' by individuals, etc.

The final order will be when the written reasoning is issued

[daveyboy66]

9 minutes ago, HarrowbyOwl said:

That seems to be the prevailing wisdom but the regulations actually say:

94.3 Any party wishing to bring a Disciplinary Appeal must, within 14 days of the making of the final order by the Disciplinary Commission (or such other shorter time period as ordered in accordance with the provisions of Regulation 92.5), serve on The League and any other party to the original proceedings:

94.3.1 written notice of the intention to bring a Disciplinary Appeal;

etc, etc.

 

"within 14 days of the making of the final order" seems to be the relevant bit. The final order would seem to me to be the supended 12 point deduction.

I'm assuming that the club received the full written decision on the 31st when the 'final order' was announced, so today is the deadline for lodging an appeal.

I doubt that we'll ever see the written reasons. Too many sensiblities on the line - accountants/auditors, valuers, 'personal misconduct' by individuals, etc.

Nope the club said they wouldn't be making any decisions until their legal team had received the full written transcript of the decision and had time to digest and reflect upon it.

[theowlsman]

On 13/08/2020 at 17:53, longreach said:

Well, next time you're thinking or returning let me know, you can use our apartment (sleeps 4) plus I can arrange diving, snorkeling and fishing trips for you. PM if you're interested. 

Obviously good rates for Owlstalkers

 

Nile Perch fishing?

[S25OWL]

Club Statement due at 7:00pm this evening 

[longreach]

14 hours ago, theowlsman said:

 

Nile Perch fishing?

Yes of course but that would be a bit of a trip to Aswan where you can catch some magnificent Carp.  You'll catch Nile perch all over the river but usually only small ones, the biggies are in the Dams.

 

[Aingarth]

On 11/08/2020 at 16:46, OwlsfaninNorway said:

To all lazybones  :

https://www.swfc.co.uk/news/2020/july/club-statement/

Don't see the lazybones about it. This statement was made when the original decision of the tribunal was released and most of us have already read it. It was also stated at the time that the club had 2 weeks to appeal against the decision. So the 2 weeks are up and there has been no new statement from the club? Guess that means no appeal.

[wellbeaten-the-owl]

2 hours ago, Aingarth said:

Don't see the lazybones about it. This statement was made when the original decision of the tribunal was released and most of us have already read it. It was also stated at the time that the club had 2 weeks to appeal against the decision. So the 2 weeks are up and there has been no new statement from the club? Guess that means no appeal.

Two weeks not up yet

[OwlsfaninNorway]

2 hours ago, Aingarth said:

Don't see the lazybones about it. This statement was made when the original decision of the tribunal was released and most of us have already read it. It was also stated at the time that the club had 2 weeks to appeal against the decision. So the 2 weeks are up and there has been no new statement from the club? Guess that means no appeal.w

My "lazybonyes" reply was written intended to be an answer to: "What does the club statement say?" or something like that. The "lazybones" stamp not being too much off the mark for something that one obviously would find on the official site of SWFC.

 

[Guest Ferkorf]

I hope we are appealing if the Nixon article is anything to go by.

The Efl wouldn't deduct points from us in the 2018/19 season because we would have stayed up so waited till the next season to sting us.

Hope thats not true because that is absolutely horrendous

[longreach]

7 hours ago, Ferkorf said:

I hope we are appealing if the Nixon article is anything to go by.

The Efl wouldn't deduct points from us in the 2018/19 season because we would have stayed up so waited till the next season to sting us.

Hope thats not true because that is absolutely horrendous

Looks like this could be the case!!

 

[bobness]

7 hours ago, Ferkorf said:

I hope we are appealing if the Nixon article is anything to go by.

The Efl wouldn't deduct points from us in the 2018/19 season because we would have stayed up so waited till the next season to sting us.

Hope thats not true because that is absolutely horrendous

 

Maybe the article is a trap to get us to appeal, giving the EFL an opportunity to fight back and get the independent panel's decision overturned

 

[Quist]

In order to write an appeal you need basis of decison, it could be argued Wednesday statement was an holding position until this happened.

 

The Nixon article clearly illustrates why EFL have not published anything it is a terrible indictment on them. 

 

The key is they produced false charges against us to try and justify actions which have all been found to be false. 

 

If Nixon is correct I do not see how 12 point deduction can stand and you would expect heads to roll at EFL.