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2 hours ago, hirstyboywonder said:

 

Ronaldo has won the European Championships once - with a decent Portugal team who took advantage of the new format to qualify for the latter stages despite not winning a game in their group and finishing 3rd. They then won the final without him.

Messi has reached a World Cup final and lost in the final of the South American equivalent of the European Championships 3 times - twice on penalties after Higuain missed a string of sitters. Small margins and hardly the failure that is sometimes portrayed in terms of national achievements.  

Whilst agreeing with your sentiments. 

On a side note most peaple will admit the coppa americas or whatever their calling it apart from 3/4 teams is very weak, Argentina and Brazil are like rangers & celtic in Scotland. 

 

I've also always thought it was harder to win the European than it was the world Cup as it wss always a strong field, no Bolivias or quatar, new Zealands etc. 

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14 hours ago, bobness said:

 

If you insist. 

 

I think Sir Alex said it best. Cristiano is the better player, because he carries a team no matter where he is, while Messi is a "Barcelona player". 

 

 

 

Sir Alex is obviously going to be incredibly biased, just read his book for more of that and how he essentially says any player he didn't get along with wasn't that good. Have a look at who Paul Scholes and Wayne Rooney say is the greatest ever (Messi), and they've both played with Ronaldo.

 

Because Ferguson is suggesting you could lump the ball up to him at any level and he'd score, I don't think it makes him a better player.

 

If you go through all the attributes of a footballer, Ronaldo is better at penalties, is stronger and better in the air. All your other attributes, Messi is the better player.

 

Messi completely dominates play and scores as much as Ronaldo does (actually on a goals per game ratio, Messi is higher), Ronaldo since he was at Real Madrid has been a striker and a poacher, he's had the ball fed to him. Messi played this role once and broke the record for goals in a calendar year. Since then he's dropped deeper, assisted more and scored more than anyone.

 

I do tend to find that people who believe Ronaldo to be the better player don't watch much football, or at least no Spanish/European (no offence to you if you do, I just find that most that do take this opinion don't). If they watched Messi often it wouldn't even be a debate for them. I think a lot of Premier League fans think Ronaldo is 'purer' or something because he's played in England and gone to other leagues. I think this is a dumb argument, given that Messi is one of the top scorers of all time against the traditional top 6 in this league. Does anyone think he'd have struggled against Bournemouth and Huddersfield? The other leagues thing is a silly argument too, does anyone think if Messi went to the richest clubs in Germany/Italy/France/England he wouldn't win leagues?

 

As it's already been touched on, Messi has carried Barca without Xavi and Iniesta. Without him they are a Europa league team. 

 

On an international level, I'd actually challenge the view that is simply Ronaldo has done it and Messi hasn't. In terms of trophies, that is correct, but when you look into it, Messi carried Argentina to a World Cup final and gave Higuain golden opportunities to score. The same in Copa America finals. The Portugal team that Ronaldo was a part of finished third in their group and Ronaldo went off injured early on in the final. The won it in spite of Ronaldo, not because of him.

 

If none of that convinces you, just look who all the players/managers/pundits say is the best ever. It's about 99% of them who say Messi is the best ever, so you're basically a flat earther if you think Ronaldo is better :laugh: Piers Morgan and Richard Keys think Ronaldo is better (although Morgan said Messi until he interviewed Ronaldo, but just two high profile people who haven't played football who have that view) and maybe a couple of ex-United players (however, Scholes and Rooney don't). 

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20 minutes ago, Carbone said:

 

Sir Alex is obviously going to be incredibly biased, just read his book for more of that and how he essentially says any player he didn't get along with wasn't that good. Have a look at who Paul Scholes and Wayne Rooney say is the greatest ever (Messi), and they've both played with Ronaldo.

 

Because Ferguson is suggesting you could lump the ball up to him at any level and he'd score, I don't think it makes him a better player.

 

If you go through all the attributes of a footballer, Ronaldo is better at penalties, is stronger and better in the air. All your other attributes, Messi is the better player.

 

Messi completely dominates play and scores as much as Ronaldo does (actually on a goals per game ratio, Messi is higher), Ronaldo since he was at Real Madrid has been a striker and a poacher, he's had the ball fed to him. Messi played this role once and broke the record for goals in a calendar year. Since then he's dropped deeper, assisted more and scored more than anyone.

 

I do tend to find that people who believe Ronaldo to be the better player don't watch much football, or at least no Spanish/European (no offence to you if you do, I just find that most that do take this opinion don't). If they watched Messi often it wouldn't even be a debate for them. I think a lot of Premier League fans think Ronaldo is 'purer' or something because he's played in England and gone to other leagues. I think this is a dumb argument, given that Messi is one of the top scorers of all time against the traditional top 6 in this league. Does anyone think he'd have struggled against Bournemouth and Huddersfield? The other leagues thing is a silly argument too, does anyone think if Messi went to the richest clubs in Germany/Italy/France/England he wouldn't win leagues?

 

As it's already been touched on, Messi has carried Barca without Xavi and Iniesta. Without him they are a Europa league team. 

 

On an international level, I'd actually challenge the view that is simply Ronaldo has done it and Messi hasn't. In terms of trophies, that is correct, but when you look into it, Messi carried Argentina to a World Cup final and gave Higuain golden opportunities to score. The same in Copa America finals. The Portugal team that Ronaldo was a part of finished third in their group and Ronaldo went off injured early on in the final. The won it in spite of Ronaldo, not because of him.

 

If none of that convinces you, just look who all the players/managers/pundits say is the best ever. It's about 99% of them who say Messi is the best ever, so you're basically a flat earther if you think Ronaldo is better :laugh: Piers Morgan and Richard Keys think Ronaldo is better (although Morgan said Messi until he interviewed Ronaldo, but just two high profile people who haven't played football who have that view) and maybe a couple of ex-United players (however, Scholes and Rooney don't). 

 

So you're saying we should sign him then?

I'm convinced.

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On 10/08/2020 at 12:57, shezzas left peg said:

Whilst agreeing with your sentiments. 

On a side note most peaple will admit the coppa americas or whatever their calling it apart from 3/4 teams is very weak, Argentina and Brazil are like rangers & celtic in Scotland. 

 

I've also always thought it was harder to win the European than it was the world Cup as it wss always a strong field, no Bolivias or quatar, new Zealands etc. 

 

In general I agree with you. In times gone by the European Championship were much harder to win, especially when there were only 8 teams that qualified for the finals. Now there are 24 and the passage through can be much easier. Portugal won the last one without winning a group game and only won 1 game in 90 minutes.

You'd expect Argentina and Brazil to always be heavy favourites in South America but most tournaments at least 1 or 2 others have a strong period - recently Chile, Colombia and Uruguay. 

Also Argentina have been particularly weak in too many area to have a strong team in recent years, lack of top class goalkeeper, dodgy at the back and only overloaded with quality in attacking positions.

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Guest Grandad
On 09/08/2020 at 20:57, heppers said:

I have heard he is available for a fee.

 

He could do well for us.

 

Should we splash the cash?

 

Exactly the type of signing thats got us into this mess.

Old and past it and after an easy ride to see out his career

 

What we need is more cast offs from Premier league academies who have never played a league game. Thats the message we need to send out to the rest of the Championship

 

They'll be quaking in their boots

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On 10/08/2020 at 15:13, Carbone said:

 

Sir Alex is obviously going to be incredibly biased, just read his book for more of that and how he essentially says any player he didn't get along with wasn't that good. Have a look at who Paul Scholes and Wayne Rooney say is the greatest ever (Messi), and they've both played with Ronaldo.

 

Because Ferguson is suggesting you could lump the ball up to him at any level and he'd score, I don't think it makes him a better player.

 

If you go through all the attributes of a footballer, Ronaldo is better at penalties, is stronger and better in the air. All your other attributes, Messi is the better player.

 

Messi completely dominates play and scores as much as Ronaldo does (actually on a goals per game ratio, Messi is higher), Ronaldo since he was at Real Madrid has been a striker and a poacher, he's had the ball fed to him. Messi played this role once and broke the record for goals in a calendar year. Since then he's dropped deeper, assisted more and scored more than anyone.

 

I do tend to find that people who believe Ronaldo to be the better player don't watch much football, or at least no Spanish/European (no offence to you if you do, I just find that most that do take this opinion don't). If they watched Messi often it wouldn't even be a debate for them. I think a lot of Premier League fans think Ronaldo is 'purer' or something because he's played in England and gone to other leagues. I think this is a dumb argument, given that Messi is one of the top scorers of all time against the traditional top 6 in this league. Does anyone think he'd have struggled against Bournemouth and Huddersfield? The other leagues thing is a silly argument too, does anyone think if Messi went to the richest clubs in Germany/Italy/France/England he wouldn't win leagues?

 

As it's already been touched on, Messi has carried Barca without Xavi and Iniesta. Without him they are a Europa league team. 

 

On an international level, I'd actually challenge the view that is simply Ronaldo has done it and Messi hasn't. In terms of trophies, that is correct, but when you look into it, Messi carried Argentina to a World Cup final and gave Higuain golden opportunities to score. The same in Copa America finals. The Portugal team that Ronaldo was a part of finished third in their group and Ronaldo went off injured early on in the final. The won it in spite of Ronaldo, not because of him.

 

If none of that convinces you, just look who all the players/managers/pundits say is the best ever. It's about 99% of them who say Messi is the best ever, so you're basically a flat earther if you think Ronaldo is better :laugh: Piers Morgan and Richard Keys think Ronaldo is better (although Morgan said Messi until he interviewed Ronaldo, but just two high profile people who haven't played football who have that view) and maybe a couple of ex-United players (however, Scholes and Rooney don't). 


A lot of people should read this and end the stupid debate.

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I remember seeing a cartoon from, IIRC, a Spanish newspaper a few years back which worked as a good analogy. It showed the peak of a mountain with the Barcelona and Real teams on each side trying to reach the summit. Ronaldo was dancing on the top because he’d got there first, whilst his teammates were all languishing way behind. On the other side Messi is just below the summit but he’s reaching down to help all his teammates to reach the peak with him.

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On 10/08/2020 at 15:13, Carbone said:

 

Sir Alex is obviously going to be incredibly biased, just read his book for more of that and how he essentially says any player he didn't get along with wasn't that good. Have a look at who Paul Scholes and Wayne Rooney say is the greatest ever (Messi), and they've both played with Ronaldo.

 

Because Ferguson is suggesting you could lump the ball up to him at any level and he'd score, I don't think it makes him a better player.

 

If you go through all the attributes of a footballer, Ronaldo is better at penalties, is stronger and better in the air. All your other attributes, Messi is the better player.

 

Messi completely dominates play and scores as much as Ronaldo does (actually on a goals per game ratio, Messi is higher), Ronaldo since he was at Real Madrid has been a striker and a poacher, he's had the ball fed to him. Messi played this role once and broke the record for goals in a calendar year. Since then he's dropped deeper, assisted more and scored more than anyone.

 

I do tend to find that people who believe Ronaldo to be the better player don't watch much football, or at least no Spanish/European (no offence to you if you do, I just find that most that do take this opinion don't). If they watched Messi often it wouldn't even be a debate for them. I think a lot of Premier League fans think Ronaldo is 'purer' or something because he's played in England and gone to other leagues. I think this is a dumb argument, given that Messi is one of the top scorers of all time against the traditional top 6 in this league. Does anyone think he'd have struggled against Bournemouth and Huddersfield? The other leagues thing is a silly argument too, does anyone think if Messi went to the richest clubs in Germany/Italy/France/England he wouldn't win leagues?

 

As it's already been touched on, Messi has carried Barca without Xavi and Iniesta. Without him they are a Europa league team. 

 

On an international level, I'd actually challenge the view that is simply Ronaldo has done it and Messi hasn't. In terms of trophies, that is correct, but when you look into it, Messi carried Argentina to a World Cup final and gave Higuain golden opportunities to score. The same in Copa America finals. The Portugal team that Ronaldo was a part of finished third in their group and Ronaldo went off injured early on in the final. The won it in spite of Ronaldo, not because of him.

 

If none of that convinces you, just look who all the players/managers/pundits say is the best ever. It's about 99% of them who say Messi is the best ever, so you're basically a flat earther if you think Ronaldo is better :laugh: Piers Morgan and Richard Keys think Ronaldo is better (although Morgan said Messi until he interviewed Ronaldo, but just two high profile people who haven't played football who have that view) and maybe a couple of ex-United players (however, Scholes and Rooney don't). 

Plus Ronaldo got 30% of his goals by outright cheating.  He’s an absolute disgrace and should have spent half of his career suspended for simulation.

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On 10/08/2020 at 03:26, bobness said:

 

On the international stage which has performed better? I suppose that's the only time we can observe how well Messi adapts to a completely different setup.

Did you miss it when Messi dragged a mediocre Argentina side to the world cup final?

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On 12/08/2020 at 10:10, punkskaphil said:

I remember seeing a cartoon from, IIRC, a Spanish newspaper a few years back which worked as a good analogy. It showed the peak of a mountain with the Barcelona and Real teams on each side trying to reach the summit. Ronaldo was dancing on the top because he’d got there first, whilst his teammates were all languishing way behind. On the other side Messi is just below the summit but he’s reaching down to help all his teammates to reach the peak with him.

Did Messi draw that cartoon though?

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