FreshOwl Posted August 8, 2020 Share Posted August 8, 2020 (edited) Does talent or experience even matter anymore? Starting to annoy me seeing all these ex players walking straight into top clubs with little or no experience Pirlo at Juventus is the latest rumour lampard at chelsea arteta at Arsenal Managerial appointments seem to be based off relationships these days - who you know John Terry has done a bit of coaching at Villa, no doubt he’ll be rewarded hugely soon Edited August 8, 2020 by FreshOwl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Grez Bez Posted August 8, 2020 Share Posted August 8, 2020 Every business is based on relationships. I've got every promotion I've ever had through knowing the boss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
punkskaphil Posted August 8, 2020 Share Posted August 8, 2020 To be fair, Arteta was Assistant Manager at Man City for three years. Probably helped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FreshOwl Posted August 8, 2020 Author Share Posted August 8, 2020 52 minutes ago, Grez Bez said: Every business is based on relationships. I've got every promotion I've ever had through knowing the boss. But you got promotions due to ability I assume and not just for knowing your boss? my point was experience doesn’t seem to matter anymore when going for the top positions. If you played at the highest level in your career then you’ve got one foot in the door already Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westfield Owl Posted August 8, 2020 Share Posted August 8, 2020 Any reason why Zidane wasn’t mentioned in the OP? Waltzed into the Real Madrid job in 2016 without a great deal of coaching experience. Or does the 3 Champions League wins, 2 La Liga titles, 2 UEFA Super Cups, 2 Club World Cups & the sh*t-ton of personal accolades that he’s won as manager weaken your argument a bit? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StudentOwl Posted August 8, 2020 Share Posted August 8, 2020 3 hours ago, punkskaphil said: To be fair, Arteta was Assistant Manager at Man City for three years. Probably helped. It was an open secret for what felt like half his time there that he wanted to manage a side... and being number two to one of the greatest managers of elite players ever probably helped more than just a little. Plus he was always one of the real leaders at Everton. OP names two managers that have both done pretty decently in their tenures all things considered... it doesn't really make much of an argument against them deserving a shot... it's objectively not been a disaster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sonofbert2 Posted August 8, 2020 Share Posted August 8, 2020 1 hour ago, Westfield Owl said: Any reason why Zidane wasn’t mentioned in the OP? Waltzed into the Real Madrid job in 2016 without a great deal of coaching experience. Or does the 3 Champions League wins, 2 La Liga titles, 2 UEFA Super Cups, 2 Club World Cups & the sh*t-ton of personal accolades that he’s won as manager weaken your argument a bit? Zidane was the reserve team manager there before he got the job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rogers Posted August 8, 2020 Share Posted August 8, 2020 And still no job for poor old Sol Campbell 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 8, 2020 Share Posted August 8, 2020 (edited) 6 hours ago, FreshOwl said: Does talent or experience even matter anymore? Starting to annoy me seeing all these ex players walking straight into top clubs with little or no experience Pirlo at Juventus is the latest rumour lampard at chelsea arteta at Arsenal Managerial appointments seem to be based off relationships these days - who you know John Terry has done a bit of coaching at Villa, no doubt he’ll be rewarded hugely soon It's a gamble for sure but you have to consider that most managerial appointments are a gamble and experience doesn't guarantee anything. Pep was hardly an experienced manager when Barcelona surprisingly gave him one of the biggest jobs in world football but they felt his vast inside knowledge of the club and the way he learnt from Cruyff would be a huge factor and it worked out big time. I guess Juve are hoping for something similar from Pirlo. Zidane has also had success at Real, perhaps not with anything revolutionary in terms of tactics but just being a big enough name to have a positive influence and experience to enable the top players to flourish. In terms of Lampard and Arteta as you refer to, Lampard was a reasoned choice this season for Chelsea - he did a decent job at Derby and had worked a lot previously with the Chelsea youth players who would need to blend with the big names this season due to their transfer ban. Arteta had worked for some time as the right hand man to pep, playing the style of football Arsenal aspire to, yes it is a gamble but still a considered one. Liverpool used to appoint from the boot room didn't they - natural successors with not much experience, didn't do them any harm back in the day. There are examples where it hasn't had a huge positive impact - our own manager got a Premier League job without any experience at all and it is more difficult to make a case for him getting that job than any of the above examples. There are also examples of experienced managers getting big jobs and not being the right choice. Moyes had cut his teeth for years before Fergie recommended him as the right man to success him - that didn't work. Roy Hodgson has vast experience but few Liverpool fans will class his time with them as an overwhelming success. Edited August 8, 2020 by Guest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0wl18 Posted August 8, 2020 Share Posted August 8, 2020 The reason the likes of Lampard, Arteta, Zidane and Pirlo have walked into the jobs they have is rather simple. They know the clubs they’re managing inside out. A lot of the time, when these managers have been named, the respective club seems to have lost a bit of their identity and, it’s almost as if the appointment is made to help bring that back. The OP’s point would have more weight if these managers were failing. They’ve all done impeccably. The weird one for me is Howe’s assistant at Bournemouth?! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fudge27 Posted August 8, 2020 Share Posted August 8, 2020 The thing you singularly fail to point out, is that all those you've mentioned have gone to clubs where they spent years as excellent players. I'm sure during those times the upper hierarchy will have seen what all the individuals named were like around the place, with the ground staff, the scouts, the academy players, other pros. I'd say that's about a good a gage for 'management' and how the individuals fits in with your club ethos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westfield Owl Posted August 9, 2020 Share Posted August 9, 2020 3 hours ago, sonofbert2 said: Zidane was the reserve team manager there before he got the job. I know he was. And Zidane's results there were probably on a par with Frank Lampard's at Derby. But most casual football fans in 2016 were surprised at the appointment, as managing their reserves for 18 months is hardly the same as being the boss of the biggest club in the world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Bulgaria Posted August 9, 2020 Share Posted August 9, 2020 It's goes to prove that being popular and liked is more important than your tactical nous. Obviously tactics are important, but hunger and a willingness to play that bit extra for your boss who you like are the key. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burnsie Posted August 9, 2020 Share Posted August 9, 2020 For every Lamps etc there's a shearer and Henry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beighton Owl 87 Posted August 9, 2020 Share Posted August 9, 2020 1 hour ago, SouthStand75 said: Arteta - assistant at City. Pirlo - started off as manager of the reserves at Juve Lampard - started off at Derby It’s not like they’ve just walked straight into the top job. It’s good that clubs are giving new managers a chance in the game instead of just going for the same old names. Last week Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tea Baggins Posted August 9, 2020 Share Posted August 9, 2020 16 hours ago, Grez Bez said: Every business is based on relationships. I've got every promotion I've ever had through knowing the boss. And sore knees to match Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FreshOwl Posted August 9, 2020 Author Share Posted August 9, 2020 13 hours ago, Westfield Owl said: Any reason why Zidane wasn’t mentioned in the OP? Waltzed into the Real Madrid job in 2016 without a great deal of coaching experience. Or does the 3 Champions League wins, 2 La Liga titles, 2 UEFA Super Cups, 2 Club World Cups & the sh*t-ton of personal accolades that he’s won as manager weaken your argument a bit? I was thinking more domestically but you’re right re Zidane. It just feels like managerial appointments in the past were based on what your experience was and what you’d achieved. But I suppose if you’ve won at the highest level and been in those dressing rooms that’s valuable experience Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burnsie Posted August 9, 2020 Share Posted August 9, 2020 5 minutes ago, FreshOwl said: I was thinking more domestically but you’re right re Zidane. It just feels like managerial appointments in the past were based on what your experience was and what you’d achieved. But I suppose if you’ve won at the highest level and been in those dressing rooms that’s valuable experience Monk knows what a winning dressing room is like 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
torryowl Posted August 9, 2020 Share Posted August 9, 2020 In days of yore the manager did everything from signing players,dishing out contracts, agreeing fees,help set the budget etc etc so helped if you had cut your teeth lower down the scale to gain experience.....these days they just coach the team so if you have the badges and a star name you've a good chance of landing a top club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sonofbert2 Posted August 9, 2020 Share Posted August 9, 2020 35 minutes ago, torryowl said: In days of yore the manager did everything from signing players,dishing out contracts, agreeing fees,help set the budget etc etc so helped if you had cut your teeth lower down the scale to gain experience.....these days they just coach the team so if you have the badges and a star name you've a good chance of landing a top club. Loads not got the badges though. Stan Collymore was tweeting the other day re. a Sol Campbell interview in The Times and how qualified he is in comparison to some of those mentioned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now