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On 14/08/2020 at 09:12, gurujuan said:

It’s interesting to read of people’s own experiences, when it comes to the academy set up, and there must be a few on here who’ve been part of the academy. I’ve always taken an interest in football at this level, and for many years, used to regularly watch our development sides. Nowadays, most of my information comes, either first hand, I now the father of one of the lads, or knowledgable posters on here. 
It’s difficult for me to compare what happens at other academies, because I have no real knowledge of how they work. My only insight into academies in general, comes from reading the stuff Scram posts, as he seems to have a good understanding of the mechanics of the academy system. 
My own thoughts about how our academy is changing, is that we now seem to be spreading the net further afield. Maybe there is just not the talent there locally? That’s sad, because Sheffield Boys have always been quite successful on a national scale, but very few, comparatively for a similar sized city, have gone on to become professionals. We bemoan our efforts in this field, but although United have been better than us, relatively few have come through either system. So where are they, they certainly aren’t getting picked up by the bigger clubs are they? I think the bigger question is, not why aren’t Wednesday producing local youngsters, but why isn’t Sheffield producing them

the kids are out there Guru , but the emphasis is to bring ready made's in by the look of things , maybe wrong but it certainly looks that way 

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23 hours ago, latemodelchild said:

Yeah we've had a chat with him and it seems to have started to click a bit more with him. All we've ever wanted is for him to enjoy it, possibly to his detriment cos we never pushed him like other parents do, touting him round etc. If it happens it happens, he's at a grass roots club that has a senior team so there's progression through if he wants it and is good enough. 

 

Honestly though, I don't know what academies look for half the time having seen players that are there compared to players that aren't. 

tell me about it L M C , I will never understand why a top six prem club (at that time) Offered my lad a place and a house for him and his mum ,as they thought that highly of him , yet he was deemed not good enough for us  , lol 

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13 minutes ago, trevdi9 said:

the kids are out there Guru , but the emphasis is to bring ready made's in by the look of things , maybe wrong but it certainly looks that way 

You are better placed than me to know that mate, but it’s not just Wednesday is it. If those players are out there, nobody is picking them up, not Wednesday, not United, nor any of the big boys. 
Since moving away from the area, I’m a bit out of touch with Sheffield schools football, but Sheffield boys always used to have one of the best squads in the country. It was never really reflected in large numbers going on to have professional careers though. For a city the size of Sheffield, and one steeped in football history, the production line has been really poor, compared to other similarly sized cities. Why?

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32 minutes ago, gurujuan said:

You are better placed than me to know that mate, but it’s not just Wednesday is it. If those players are out there, nobody is picking them up, not Wednesday, not United, nor any of the big boys. 
Since moving away from the area, I’m a bit out of touch with Sheffield schools football, but Sheffield boys always used to have one of the best squads in the country. It was never really reflected in large numbers going on to have professional careers though. For a city the size of Sheffield, and one steeped in football history, the production line has been really poor, compared to other similarly sized cities. Why?

agree with your post Guru  and the same question also ,Why ?

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10 minutes ago, Ronnie Starling said:

Its a shame we don't get players like Jamie Vardy on our patch.

I know it seems a bit bizarre have this conversation, when you have Vardy, Walker and Maguire, in and around the England set up, but apart from those, and perhaps Cahill, there’s been very little

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On 11/08/2020 at 08:06, Ronnie Starling said:

I would say that the biggest measure and feedback of our academy is the constant failure year after year.

 

We shouldn't be too disparaging the odds are very much weighted against us. Each premiership is set up U23, U18 and U16. Let's assume 18 lads and young men per squad  54 players. So more than a thousand kids who are seen as being the cream of the crop.

 

So what we are looking at is a pick of the second group of more than a thousand. So we are where we are. We will be very lucky indeed if we land a lad who goes on at the highest level. This doesn't even factor in the financial factors.  

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1 minute ago, nevthelodgemoorowl said:

 

We shouldn't be too disparaging the odds are very much weighted against us. Each premiership is set up U23, U18 and U16. Let's assume 18 lads and young men per squad  54 players. So more than a thousand kids who are seen as being the cream of the crop.

 

So what we are looking at is a pick of the second group of more than a thousand. So we are where we are. We will be very lucky indeed if we land a lad who goes on at the highest level. This doesn't even factor in the financial factors.  

This is what makes me think it’s an issue further down the chain Nev. We might not be getting first pick of them, but whoever does have first pick, the kids aren’t coming through. Sheffield produces very little

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19 minutes ago, nevthelodgemoorowl said:

 

We shouldn't be too disparaging the odds are very much weighted against us. Each premiership is set up U23, U18 and U16. Let's assume 18 lads and young men per squad  54 players. So more than a thousand kids who are seen as being the cream of the crop.

 

So what we are looking at is a pick of the second group of more than a thousand. So we are where we are. We will be very lucky indeed if we land a lad who goes on at the highest level. This doesn't even factor in the financial factors.  

<Ding> Repetition! 

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5 minutes ago, gurujuan said:

This is what makes me think it’s an issue further down the chain Nev. We might not be getting first pick of them, but whoever does have first pick, the kids aren’t coming through. Sheffield produces very little

I'm old hat so blame the structure. First team, Reserve, U18's and U16's seemed to work perfectly well for us. Local lads joining with the security of family apron strings get 2-3 years to progress . I loved seeing the delight on faces of lads making their reserve team debut. True most failed to reach the heights but some did and a good few more made a living at lower level. Home Grown wasn't the bye word but we had more success back then at nurturing. 

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45 minutes ago, nevthelodgemoorowl said:

I'm old hat so blame the structure. First team, Reserve, U18's and U16's seemed to work perfectly well for us. Local lads joining with the security of family apron strings get 2-3 years to progress . I loved seeing the delight on faces of lads making their reserve team debut. True most failed to reach the heights but some did and a good few more made a living at lower level. Home Grown wasn't the bye word but we had more success back then at nurturing. 

and that is  how it should be Nev 

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1 hour ago, nevthelodgemoorowl said:

I'm old hat so blame the structure. First team, Reserve, U18's and U16's seemed to work perfectly well for us. Local lads joining with the security of family apron strings get 2-3 years to progress . I loved seeing the delight on faces of lads making their reserve team debut. True most failed to reach the heights but some did and a good few more made a living at lower level. Home Grown wasn't the bye word but we had more success back then at nurturing. 

I think we’ve always been poor at identifying talented players and bringing them through the system into the senior set-up. Some forty years ago when I was a nipper, the best footballer around our way was on Man Utd’s books - any promising player in the north of Sheffield should have been on our books - not by right but because of good practice. There was a kid at my school that was attracting interest from clubs all over the north but not a sniff from us.  I guess we all have stories like this and very few where Wednesday signed up a good local lad. 

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On 09/08/2020 at 12:05, Smackavolley said:


This post more or less sums it up.

 

I would add that your lad is coming up to the optimum age to join an academy which is 14/15/16yo. 

If he’s playing regularly at a decent level, scouts will have seen him play from the local pro clubs down there.


Not sure if he’s still there but last I heard Miguel Llera was the academy manager at Walsall FC. He also had/has his own football academy in or around Sheffield.

Maybe look to contact him and check the possibilities. Top kids coach is Llera. No nonsense and says it like it is.

 

Good luck.

 

 

 

Big Mig is a good shout. My lad has been going to his academy since he started it. Of all the football he plays he loves that the most.

Definitely contact him.

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41 minutes ago, shandypants said:

I think we’ve always been poor at identifying talented players and bringing them through the system into the senior set-up. Some forty years ago when I was a nipper, the best footballer around our way was on Man Utd’s books - any promising player in the north of Sheffield should have been on our books - not by right but because of good practice. There was a kid at my school that was attracting interest from clubs all over the north but not a sniff from us.  I guess we all have stories like this and very few where Wednesday signed up a good local lad. 

Was that ray storey

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2 hours ago, nevthelodgemoorowl said:

 

We shouldn't be too disparaging the odds are very much weighted against us. Each premiership is set up U23, U18 and U16. Let's assume 18 lads and young men per squad  54 players. So more than a thousand kids who are seen as being the cream of the crop.

 

So what we are looking at is a pick of the second group of more than a thousand. So we are where we are. We will be very lucky indeed if we land a lad who goes on at the highest level. This doesn't even factor in the financial factors.  

The management and structure is all wrong. Too many coaches have come and gone with the failings to do the basics in the recent past reaping todays poor crop.

 

We have had coaches managing teams on their own with no assistant.

No specialist goalkeeping coach for young keepers.

Young keepers warming themselves up on match days.

Scouts having to print their own business cards to give to parents of potential youngsters.

Scouts having to fight for their expenses.

Players paying for training kit.

Players having to pay to attend summer tournaments.

 

While we had this going off our competitors were stealing a march on us.

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2 hours ago, Ronnie Starling said:

The management and structure is all wrong. Too many coaches have come and gone with the failings to do the basics in the recent past reaping todays poor crop.

 

We have had coaches managing teams on their own with no assistant.

No specialist goalkeeping coach for young keepers.

Young keepers warming themselves up on match days.

Scouts having to print their own business cards to give to parents of potential youngsters.

Scouts having to fight for their expenses.

Players paying for training kit.

Players having to pay to attend summer tournaments.

 

While we had this going off our competitors were stealing a march on us.

 

Like I said Reserves, Under 18 and Under 16 done right. Doing something under funded is a waste of space. Local Junior clubs have the bases covered.  

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On 09/08/2020 at 12:05, Smackavolley said:


This post more or less sums it up.

 

I would add that your lad is coming up to the optimum age to join an academy which is 14/15/16yo. 

If he’s playing regularly at a decent level, scouts will have seen him play from the local pro clubs down there.


Not sure if he’s still there but last I heard Miguel Llera was the academy manager at Walsall FC. He also had/has his own football academy in or around Sheffield.

Maybe look to contact him and check the possibilities. Top kids coach is Llera. No nonsense and says it like it is.

 

Good luck.

 

Llera is down at Walsall, and is still their academy manager, AFAIK. He doesn't beat about the bush though, and tells it very straight. He's tough, and so are his words at times, but if he sees talent, he will nurture them. Well worth getting in touch @SolihullOwl79

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3 hours ago, Ronnie Starling said:

The management and structure is all wrong. Too many coaches have come and gone with the failings to do the basics in the recent past reaping todays poor crop.

 

We have had coaches managing teams on their own with no assistant.

No specialist goalkeeping coach for young keepers.

Young keepers warming themselves up on match days.

Scouts having to print their own business cards to give to parents of potential youngsters.

Scouts having to fight for their expenses.

Players paying for training kit.

Players having to pay to attend summer tournaments.

 

While we had this going off our competitors were stealing a march on us.

 

I don't doubt what you are saying or have experience of but if we do not have a GK coach for the younger kids we are not fulfilling the mandatory criteria to be a cat 2 academy

 

And the latest 2 stage audit of academies is much more stringent than previous

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