soldierboyblue Posted August 10, 2020 Share Posted August 10, 2020 16 minutes ago, Plonk said: Which is what I agreed with? You said “ no justifications for a red area strike” I said there can be but can’t see it. I was trying to offer a bit of balance that red area strikes can be justified. Was it in this case? On what I’ve seen absolutely not. But I’ve seen one minute of what could have been a ten minute incident. The lack of an arrest related to this incident speaks volumes I'm afraid. SYP doing what SYP do best trying to sweep things under the carpet unless it suits there very skewed moral compass 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lawrie Madden Posted August 10, 2020 Share Posted August 10, 2020 (edited) 6 hours ago, Plonk said: Which is what I agreed with? You said “ no justifications for a red area strike” I said there can be but can’t see it. I was trying to offer a bit of balance that red area strikes can be justified. Was it in this case? On what I’ve seen absolutely not. But I’ve seen one minute of what could have been a ten minute incident. There was 2 or 3 vids doing the round much longer than 1 min and while i agree with you red strikes can be justified if the officer is in danger of being harmed but definitely not in this case . Someone wrote that ( can't be arsed to look back so apologies if i quote it wrong ) Sampson might have had a red mist moment which is no justification at all because Officers aren't allowed Red Mist Moments and if that was his defence ( not saying it is )then i would certainly not want him on the streets armed Edited August 10, 2020 by Lawrie Madden Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest The Claw Posted August 10, 2020 Share Posted August 10, 2020 13 minutes ago, Lawrie Madden said: There was 2 or 3 vids doing the round much longer than 1 min and while i agree with you red strikes can be justified if the officer is in danger of being harmed but definitely not in this case . Someone wrote that ( can't be arsed to look back so apologies if i quote it wrong ) Sampson might have had a red mist moment which is no justification at all because Officers aren't allowed Red Mist Moments and if that was his defence ( not saying it is )then i would certainly not want him on the streets armed I would want him policing the streets full stop, the man is tainted now! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S40owl Posted August 10, 2020 Share Posted August 10, 2020 On 05/08/2020 at 14:40, soldierboyblue said: It was alleged at times that soldier's used to put batteries in Baton guns and then fire them at the floor, thus opening up the entire target area. (This was never found to be true I hasten to add). The baton's we used were often referred to as 'pig sticks' (good for bashing blades.....only joking) and were made of hickory and didn't have the reach of the public order batons of today so a good eye jabbing often occurred when things went sideways and you were in danger of being overran I was Baton gunner in my platoon had heard of the battery dropped in with rubber bullet trick but never seen it adopted .Yes the trunchens was a good piece of kit to.West Belfast 1982 good times In some ways but not so good in others ,we'd got the upper hand by then . 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Utah Owl Posted August 10, 2020 Share Posted August 10, 2020 1 hour ago, S40owl said: I was Baton gunner in my platoon had heard of the battery dropped in with rubber bullet trick but never seen it adopted .Yes the trunchens was a good piece of kit to.West Belfast 1982 good times In some ways but not so good in others ,we'd got the upper hand by then . Any of you in the Paras at that time? If so did you know John Pashley? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soldierboyblue Posted August 11, 2020 Share Posted August 11, 2020 3 hours ago, Utah Owl said: Any of you in the Paras at that time? If so did you know John Pashley? @parajack @airborne_rat_of_s6 might do pal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
airborne_rat_of_s6 Posted August 11, 2020 Share Posted August 11, 2020 8 hours ago, Utah Owl said: Any of you in the Paras at that time? If so did you know John Pashley? Before my time at 9. One of the blocks at Rhine Barracks on Montgomery lines was named after him and there was a stone memorial which has been moved to Rock barracks in Woodbridge, with his and the others that were killed in the Falklands. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LiamAP22D Posted August 11, 2020 Share Posted August 11, 2020 On 08/08/2020 at 09:28, markowl said: Are you a copper? Noooo i considered it when i came out the forces but went down another path instead. Hopefully i'll be retired in 5 years time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S40owl Posted August 11, 2020 Share Posted August 11, 2020 11 hours ago, Utah Owl said: Any of you in the Paras at that time? If so did you know John Pashley? No mate was in Sherwood foresters . 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devonstrix Posted August 11, 2020 Share Posted August 11, 2020 Then of course there is the intended strike to the shoulder, where due to either the officers poor aim or the offender moving at the last second, a red zone strike takes place. You often get misguided comments from people who say, why didn’t they just shoot the gun out of the armed robber's hand instead of shooting him dead. Too many John Wayne films! This link deals with red zone strikes in West Yorkshire Police use of force policy. https://www.westyorkshire.police.uk/sites/default/files/files/disclosure-logs/2014_218_foi2014514185_use_of_force_policy2.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveyboy66 Posted August 11, 2020 Share Posted August 11, 2020 7 hours ago, airborne_rat_of_s6 said: Before my time at 9. One of the blocks at Rhine Barracks on Montgomery lines was named after him and there was a stone memorial which has been moved to Rock barracks in Woodbridge, with his and the others that were killed in the Falklands. Ian McKay VC was my company corporal as a boy soldier in 1968...top guy spent hours teaching me how to play squash. 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cockers Posted August 11, 2020 Share Posted August 11, 2020 On 06/08/2020 at 18:46, bubbleowl said: What you've got is police investigating police so their instinct is to defend the officer. Seeing it's taking so long and the kid has been as for as l know not been charged with an offence GBH, affay etc they could be stalling, my opinion is they will try to settle out of court with a large compo Read the definition of IOPC and then look who works for that necessary organisation. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soldierboyblue Posted August 11, 2020 Share Posted August 11, 2020 16 minutes ago, daveyboy66 said: Ian McKay VC was my company corporal as a boy soldier in 1968...top guy spent hours teaching me how to play squash. I have met his Mum a few times who used to go and sit at the memorial in the TA Centre named after him in Rotherham. A very nice lady 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest The Claw Posted August 11, 2020 Share Posted August 11, 2020 1 hour ago, Devonstrix said: Then of course there is the intended strike to the shoulder, where due to either the officers poor aim or the offender moving at the last second, a red zone strike takes place. You often get misguided comments from people who say, why didn’t they just shoot the gun out of the armed robber's hand instead of shooting him dead. Too many John Wayne films! This link deals with red zone strikes in West Yorkshire Police use of force policy. https://www.westyorkshire.police.uk/sites/default/files/files/disclosure-logs/2014_218_foi2014514185_use_of_force_policy2.pdf I ment to shoot him in the foot but he ducked ffs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soldierboyblue Posted August 11, 2020 Share Posted August 11, 2020 2 hours ago, Devonstrix said: Then of course there is the intended strike to the shoulder, where due to either the officers poor aim or the offender moving at the last second, a red zone strike takes place. You often get misguided comments from people who say, why didn’t they just shoot the gun out of the armed robber's hand instead of shooting him dead. Too many John Wayne films! This link deals with red zone strikes in West Yorkshire Police use of force policy. https://www.westyorkshire.police.uk/sites/default/files/files/disclosure-logs/2014_218_foi2014514185_use_of_force_policy2.pdf I would think that SYP's guidelines are very similar to these - Having read through these the officer should be getting his P45 and an assault/GBH charge to accompany it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devonstrix Posted August 11, 2020 Share Posted August 11, 2020 Well he might do SBB. But as you’re an ex military man, as am I, you will know that sometimes things aren’t always as they seem, especially on snippets of video. No time for over zealous cops. They are a liability to their colleagues and public alike. I’m just wondering why he’s not been suspended that’s all. I’ve known cops suspended for months for shoplifting, let alone serious assaults. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soldierboyblue Posted August 11, 2020 Share Posted August 11, 2020 19 minutes ago, Devonstrix said: Well he might do SBB. But as you’re an ex military man, as am I, you will know that sometimes things aren’t always as they seem, especially on snippets of video. No time for over zealous cops. They are a liability to their colleagues and public alike. I’m just wondering why he’s not been suspended that’s all. I’ve known cops suspended for months for shoplifting, let alone serious assaults. Agree with everything you say. The non-suspension thing is covered with the officer being on restricted duties and of course 'innocent until proven guilty'. The wider issue here is that football fans as a whole are still treated like vermin by lots of police officers (not all) and you only have to look at some of the recent protests and how they were handled from a public order perspective. If that was football fans at it like they were there would have been numerous baton charges and lots more arrests. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devonstrix Posted August 11, 2020 Share Posted August 11, 2020 Suspension is the norm when it’s a serious offence, or it certainly always used to be. that’s why I’m wondering if there’s a bit more to it. As for policing of football crowds, the problem is the minority 'vermin' types spoil it for the rest, or at least they used to. I was a unit commander at one of the worst football riots in 'modern' times back in 1990 when Leeds 'supporters' literally ran riot in Bournemouth on a bank holiday weekend prior to and after the relegation/promotion clincher with Bournemouth. Something like 10000 ticketless fans tried to storm the ground. Nothing to do with Police treatment that day. They were a diabolical crew and turned on their own uniformed commissionaires when they tried to reason with them. Smashed up the town before and after the game. Never forgotten It. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
parajack Posted August 11, 2020 Share Posted August 11, 2020 15 hours ago, soldierboyblue said: @parajack @airborne_rat_of_s6 might do pal No i didnt know him,but as AR has said,there were memorials to those killed in the Falklands at the Shot...My training NCO was an Op Corporate vet... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soldierboyblue Posted August 11, 2020 Share Posted August 11, 2020 Just now, parajack said: No i didnt know him,but as AR has said,there were memorials to those killed in the Falklands at the Shot...My training NCO was an Op Corporate vet... Were you Red, Blue or Green? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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