@owlstalk Posted August 5, 2020 Share Posted August 5, 2020 2 minutes ago, paulvcooke said: I'm out of this, you are not answering direct questions Except I did!? With the answer you quoted in your last post? Owlstalk Shop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
@owlstalk Posted August 5, 2020 Share Posted August 5, 2020 3 minutes ago, jonnyowl said: Somebody who knows how to be successful. Like Bruce, Jokanovic or Hughton who have promotions on their CV. Or someone like Paul Cook who has had success in the lower leagues, Chesterfield Promotion, Portsmouth League Two title, Wigan League on title. I dont think the time is right for a first job for someone, I dont think we can do what Rangers did by getting Gerrard or Derby getting in Lampard a big name player looking for their first job! Your obviously not going to get a manager that hasn't been sacked, but I dont want a manager that has had no success at 4 clubs and been sacked at 3 of them! Those managers have been sacked before though mate so using your OWN criteria that makes them a bad manager/rules them out PS - Garry Monk finished above Paul Cook last season Paul Cook's first half to the season was as bad as Garry Monk's second half, so by Christmas you'd have had him sacked So..... Owlstalk Shop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest paulvcooke Posted August 5, 2020 Share Posted August 5, 2020 1 minute ago, @owlstalk said: Except I did!? With the answer you quoted in your last post? Monk has not been a Premier League manager since 2015, do you think he'll be one again anytime soon? Or manage in Europe again anytime soon? Genuine questions. And, is it possible to put you on ignore? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pazowl55 Posted August 5, 2020 Share Posted August 5, 2020 2 minutes ago, jonnyowl said: Somebody who knows how to be successful. Like Bruce, Jokanovic or Hughton who have promotions on their CV. Or someone like Paul Cook who has had success in the lower leagues, Chesterfield Promotion, Portsmouth League Two title, Wigan League on title. I dont think the time is right for a first job for someone, I dont think we can do what Rangers did by getting Gerrard or Derby getting in Lampard a big name player looking for their first job! Your obviously not going to get a manager that hasn't been sacked, but I dont want a manager that has had no success at 4 clubs and been sacked at 3 of them! To be fair most managers we could get wont have had success in this division or higher. If you want success and you look lower down the leagues then that comes with the fact they haven't managed at championship level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
@owlstalk Posted August 5, 2020 Share Posted August 5, 2020 1 minute ago, pazowl55 said: To be fair most managers we could get wont have had success in this division or higher. If you want success and you look lower down the leagues then that comes with the fact they haven't managed at championship level. Same applies to Premier League clubs and managers at Premier League level 1 Owlstalk Shop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonnyowl Posted August 5, 2020 Share Posted August 5, 2020 1 minute ago, @owlstalk said: Those managers have been sacked before though mate so using your OWN criteria that makes them a bad manager/rules them out PS - Garry Monk finished above Paul Cook last season Paul Cook's first half to the season was as bad as Garry Monk's second half, so by Christmas you'd have had him sacked So..... Clearly you've not read any of my posts properly. Manager who get sacked are not always bad managers. However managers that have been sacked from 3 out of 4 clubs, have had no success at any of the four clubs previous, and go through a pathetic run of results and performnaces as we have are bad managers! And Monk only finished above Cook because Wigan got a 12 point deduction! Cook also has 2 league titles and a promotion on his CV, Monk doesn't! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanharper Posted August 5, 2020 Share Posted August 5, 2020 Neil, you forgot to give an evasive or childish response to my question: Can you please explain how a midtable club having a points deduction which put them to lower midtable, and still had enough points to finish 12 points above the drop despite only winning 2 of the last 12 games makes "saving them from relegation" some sort of achievement? 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
@owlstalk Posted August 5, 2020 Share Posted August 5, 2020 So in this thread I've merely posted that Garry Monk Hasn't got a coaching structure of his own Had many of the first team players about to be out of contract last season Hasn't had a pre-season with the team Had a few players 'injured' during the season Finished above Paul Cook last season Has managed in the Premier League Has managed in Europe Has saved a club from a 9 point deduction before so has experience of this current situation Got us to third in the league during the first half of the season All of which has been simply denied as though it wasn't true or none of it happened Yet the Monk Outers have jumped on me, made stuff up, lied and created fairytale scenarios Why can't they just discuss with facts? If the Monk Haters stuck to absolute facts and didn't deny/try to pretend stuff happened when it did we could have a mature adult debate where I could be convinced that maybe he's not the man for the job? Owlstalk Shop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonnyowl Posted August 5, 2020 Share Posted August 5, 2020 4 minutes ago, pazowl55 said: To be fair most managers we could get wont have had success in this division or higher. If you want success and you look lower down the leagues then that comes with the fact they haven't managed at championship level. I think the 12 point deduction makes it difficult, but we gave Bruce £2 million a year so why not try and tempt someone. As for lower leagues, I'd rather have Gareth Ainsworth than Monk, he's done an amazing job with Wycombe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
@owlstalk Posted August 5, 2020 Share Posted August 5, 2020 3 minutes ago, jonnyowl said: Manager who get sacked are not always bad managers. Why is sackings being constantly posted in this thread as a reason Monk is a bad manager then? Owlstalk Shop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
@owlstalk Posted August 5, 2020 Share Posted August 5, 2020 3 minutes ago, alanharper said: Can you please explain how a midtable club having a points deduction which put them to lower midtable, and still had enough points to finish 12 points above the drop despite only winning 2 of the last 12 games makes "saving them from relegation" some sort of achievement? Did they get relegated after their 9 point deduction? 1) YES 2) NO Owlstalk Shop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue and white Posted August 5, 2020 Share Posted August 5, 2020 9 minutes ago, jonnyowl said: Somebody who knows how to be successful. Like Bruce, Jokanovic or Hughton who have promotions on their CV. Or someone like Paul Cook who has had success in the lower leagues, Chesterfield Promotion, Portsmouth League Two title, Wigan League on title. I dont think the time is right for a first job for someone, I dont think we can do what Rangers did by getting Gerrard or Derby getting in Lampard a big name player looking for their first job! Your obviously not going to get a manager that hasn't been sacked, but I dont want a manager that has had no success at 4 clubs and been sacked at 3 of them! Bruce, Jokanovic, Hughton or Pearson would be a 100% improvement on what we have currently. For me Jokanovic has always been my first choice, sadly there is zero chance of him leaving his mega money number and coming here. Pearson would be the next ideal candidate and I firmly believe with the right assurances he would jump at the chance. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest paulvcooke Posted August 5, 2020 Share Posted August 5, 2020 2 minutes ago, @owlstalk said: So in this thread I've merely posted that Garry Monk Hasn't got a coaching structure of his own Had many of the first team players about to be out of contract last season Hasn't had a pre-season with the team Had a few players 'injured' during the season Finished above Paul Cook last season Has managed in the Premier League Has managed in Europe Has saved a club from a 9 point deduction before so has experience of this current situation Got us to third in the league during the first half of the season All of which has been simply denied as though it wasn't true or none of it happened Yet the Monk Outers have jumped on me, made stuff up, lied and created fairytale scenarios Why can't they just discuss with facts? If the Monk Haters stuck to absolute facts and didn't deny/try to pretend stuff happened when it did we could have a mature adult debate where I could be convinced that maybe he's not the man for the job? Monk has not been a Premier League manager since 2015, do you think he'll be one again anytime soon? Or manage in Europe again anytime soon? Genuine questions. And, is it possible to put you on ignore? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
@owlstalk Posted August 5, 2020 Share Posted August 5, 2020 1 minute ago, Blue and white said: Pearson would be the next ideal candidate and I firmly believe with the right assurances he would jump at the chance. What assurances do you think he would need? Owlstalk Shop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanharper Posted August 5, 2020 Share Posted August 5, 2020 5 minutes ago, @owlstalk said: PS - Garry Monk finished above Paul Cook last season Paul Cook's first half to the season was as bad as Garry Monk's second half, so by Christmas you'd have had him sacked So..... Already answered this, so it's proof that you only believe what you want to, but to repeat myself: Cook/Wigan gained more points on the pitch than Monk/Wednesday did, had a goal differnce which was +9 better, and Cook's record in the first half of the season was better than Monk's was in the second. If Monk had got as many points in the second half as Cook did in the first, we'd have finished 3 places higher. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
@owlstalk Posted August 5, 2020 Share Posted August 5, 2020 Just now, alanharper said: Cook's record in the first half of the season was better than Monk's was in the second. What about the first half of the season? If we're judging managers on half a season (as it seems the Monk Haters are) then let's judge Paul Cook on the first half of last season Fair? Good! How did he do? Owlstalk Shop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanharper Posted August 5, 2020 Share Posted August 5, 2020 1 minute ago, @owlstalk said: Did they get relegated after their 9 point deduction? 1) YES 2) NO And based on the facts, which are A midtable club had a points deduction in March which put them to lower midtable, and still had enough points to finish 12 points above the drop despite only winning 2 of the last 12 games Does that make "saving them from relegation" some sort of badge of honour on a managerial CV? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonnyowl Posted August 5, 2020 Share Posted August 5, 2020 (edited) 7 minutes ago, @owlstalk said: So in this thread I've merely posted that Garry Monk Hasn't got a coaching structure of his own Had many of the first team players about to be out of contract last season Hasn't had a pre-season with the team Had a few players 'injured' during the season Finished above Paul Cook last season Has managed in the Premier League Has managed in Europe Has saved a club from a 9 point deduction before so has experience of this current situation Got us to third in the league during the first half of the season All of which has been simply denied as though it wasn't true or none of it happened Yet the Monk Outers have jumped on me, made stuff up, lied and created fairytale scenarios Why can't they just discuss with facts? If the Monk Haters stuck to absolute facts and didn't deny/try to pretend stuff happened when it did we could have a mature adult debate where I could be convinced that maybe he's not the man for the job? 17 points from 69. 4 wins in 23. 46 goals conceded in 23 games. All facts. Despite all that, if he had sucess at a previous club I could give him more time, but here are some more facts. Promotions 0 playoff campaigns 0 Swansea 1 good season then sacked Middlesbrough spent £50million midtable then sacked Birmingham would have finished 15th then sacked Wednesday finished 16th after been 3rd at xmas. And regardless of what you have put i think those three facts means he should be sacked. That's my opinion. Your entitled to yours, I just think your argument that he's managed in the premier league and europe (for 2 games) is a poor argument for keeping him! I guess next season we will see who is right, I hope it's you! Edited August 5, 2020 by jonnyowl 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
@owlstalk Posted August 5, 2020 Share Posted August 5, 2020 1 minute ago, alanharper said: and still had enough points to finish 12 points above the drop Thanks to Garry Monk Owlstalk Shop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue and white Posted August 5, 2020 Share Posted August 5, 2020 1 minute ago, @owlstalk said: What assurances do you think he would need? I don't think it would take to much at all. I think he would want full control over 1st team affairs such as recruitment. I think he would like his own backroom team in place. I believe a tidy bonus on promotion would be a deal clincher. What I can't fault Chasiri for is he backs his managers and Pearson would thrive under that. He is destined to be our manager one day and I honestly think the time is now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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