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SWFC Accounts 31 July 2018


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Guest mkowl
3 hours ago, Ozymandias Owl said:

I got out of Accountancy many year ago, not before it had bored me to tears.... 

 

Yet more cost for DC, as I assume DC agreed to pay his fine when it arrives....

 

I'm sure the Auditor must have "written" to DC about the recording of the Stadium sale in the July 2018 accounts to cover his back? 

 

Would this stand up as a defence for the Auditor? 

The letter of representation in itself will not be a defence.

 

I don't mind the accountancy bit but the auditor part my only regret is not ditching it sooner. Most of my considerations were documented in my head not on the file - which doesn't help when it gets reviewed. 

 

So something as significant as this transaction, turning a 35m loss into a 2m profit then I suggest you need quite a bit of documentation and consideration on the file. Seriously I went through my regulatory review 2 years ago, stressed the life out of me, made the call to stop but had to have every file reviewed at my expense over the next 6 months to extricate myself from that work flow. 

 

 

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Guest mkowl
8 minutes ago, Grandad said:

 

So you now agree that the money/some of the money hes put into the club could be shown to be payment for the stadium - hence he could demonstrate he doesnt owe anything on the stadium if potential administrators went after him?

Perhaps we are at cross purposes here. I was talking about the continuing funding for the operating costs. So my educated guess is that DC's money will go into Sheffield 3/5 whatever as shareholder loan. This will then be used to pay the instalment due from Sheffield 3/5 to SWFC Limited. 

 

So if he had to fund 10m in the year to 31/7/19 it would be 7.5m via this route and 2.5m added to the existing shareholder loan of 80m.

 

The point we were discussing was whether he could "pay" the 60m due simply by reducing the shareholder loan. The answer is yes, indeed I always presumed that would be the modis operandi. 

 

However the context of the discussion was in relation to doing that and then putting the club into admin. I said there would be a real risk - drawn from real life discussions with IP's that it could be construed to be favouring yourself over other creditors. It is irrelevant in that context you are the main creditor

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18 minutes ago, Asio otus said:

Need to see the transcript first, I have a feeling it is not as clear cut as what you say.

 

Of course, we are all surmising until the documents are released.

 

But given that the biggest points deduction available for exceeding allowable losses is 12 points, and any extra deductions given is for aggravation (which we've been cleared of), it would tie into that scenario.

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41 minutes ago, frastheowl said:

 

Of course, we are all surmising until the documents are released.

 

But given that the biggest points deduction available for exceeding allowable losses is 12 points, and any extra deductions given is for aggravation (which we've been cleared of), it would tie into that scenario.

The issue around the accounts is interesting and I would suspect that caused much headache. The accounts have been legally audited and agreed by HMRC. It seems to me the panel are claiming accountancy fraud , which  is some what baffling.

Accounting fraud is the illegal alteration of a company's financial statements in order to manipulate a company's apparent health or to hide profits or losses.

Edited by Big Jack
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3 minutes ago, Asio otus said:

It seems to me the panel are claiming accountancy fraud , which  is some what baffling.

That's the bit i don't get.

If we are deducted 12pts for ffp breaches, how come we are not deducted pts for 'accounting manipulation' as well..

Misconduct etc, not a fit and proper owner ..

 

We cannot have breached ffp if the accounts are passed off as ok. Therfore they cannot deduct points.

 

It looks to me like we have struck a deal..

 

 

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32 minutes ago, Asio otus said:

The issue around the accounts is interesting and I would suspect that caused much headache. The accounts have been legally audited and agreed by HMRC. It seems to me the panel are claiming accountancy fraud , which  is some what baffling.

Accounting fraud is the illegal alteration of a company's financial statements in order to manipulate a company's apparent health or to hide profits or losses.

HMRC don’t agree accounts, the Auditors sign accounts but otherwise nobody „agrees“ accounts.

HMRC receive tax accounts which they can accept or enquire about but this is not usually public knowledge and unlikely to be made so.

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Guest mkowl
51 minutes ago, kobayashi said:

HMRC don’t agree accounts, the Auditors sign accounts but otherwise nobody „agrees“ accounts.

HMRC receive tax accounts which they can accept or enquire about but this is not usually public knowledge and unlikely to be made so.

Not been agreed by HMRC since about 1999 IIRC

 

Thinking about it the 2 year window to raise questions also closed on the 31st July - they may have done of course and I suspect they would argue this constitutes a discovery in any event !

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P&S is a 3 year rolling process and our 12 point deduction is due to ground sale not being allowed in year end July 2018, so lost over £35m that year + £20.7m and £9.7m in previous 2 years.

Allowance is £39m over rolling 3 years. There is no reset, it’s a rolling 3 years, so it’s now £20.7m, £35.4m and year end 2019 less the ground sale profit of £38m. 
Basically, if we’ve lost more than £20.8m to July 2019, we breach again and are liable for another points deduction. July 2019 accounts are due to be published anytime now ......

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33 minutes ago, IanSWFC1867 said:

P&S is a 3 year rolling process and our 12 point deduction is due to ground sale not being allowed in year end July 2018, so lost over £35m that year + £20.7m and £9.7m in previous 2 years.

Allowance is £39m over rolling 3 years. There is no reset, it’s a rolling 3 years, so it’s now £20.7m, £35.4m and year end 2019 less the ground sale profit of £38m. 
Basically, if we’ve lost more than £20.8m to July 2019, we breach again and are liable for another points deduction. July 2019 accounts are due to be published anytime now ......

That might be tight. Once 19/20 appears in the accounts we should be sound, that's when we shifted some high wage players and fee amortisation will drop away. We also got £4m for Bruce and a decent fee for Joao.

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I was at a fundraiser in september last year,a few football people were there,including chairmen and board members and a few ex pros,the main topics of conversation was the wage bill at SWFC and how the hell do they manage to pay their players such vast sums,one chairman said theyd made a loan offer to a prem club for a player reaching the end of his contract who wasnt figuring in the managers plans,and the club had given them the nod to talk with his agent about terms after theyd agreed the loan fee,only for the players rep to say he wanted the same terms as FF @ Wednesday 80K but was willing to defer bonus over 5 yrs and they left him to rot in the treatment room!

So many more,but I cant betray trust,but the funniest was when Jos left,its said we approached Burnley about talking to Dyche,who was apparently given permission to speak to the club,and just kept muteing his phone,and every ******** in the room was laughing so theyd heard it before,god it was an awkward night,you really got the impression every other club was taking the mick

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On 01/08/2020 at 07:13, Brad_owl said:

As above, the stadium sale now being moved into the following years accounts now might move us forward faster financially. If we can stay up next year then we could have a good financial platform for a good push. 

 

So by a complete turn of fate this could work to our advantage IF we can stay up. 

 

The disadvantage is it does nothing to help player recruitment.

 

I would think the opportunity of playing at a fancy £60m stadium could be quite tempting!

lol

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On 03/08/2020 at 01:14, legendaryswan said:

I was at a fundraiser in september last year,a few football people were there,including chairmen and board members and a few ex pros,the main topics of conversation was the wage bill at SWFC and how the hell do they manage to pay their players such vast sums,one chairman said theyd made a loan offer to a prem club for a player reaching the end of his contract who wasnt figuring in the managers plans,and the club had given them the nod to talk with his agent about terms after theyd agreed the loan fee,only for the players rep to say he wanted the same terms as FF @ Wednesday 80K but was willing to defer bonus over 5 yrs and they left him to rot in the treatment room!

So many more,but I cant betray trust,but the funniest was when Jos left,its said we approached Burnley about talking to Dyche,who was apparently given permission to speak to the club,and just kept muteing his phone,and every ******** in the room was laughing so theyd heard it before,god it was an awkward night,you really got the impression every other club was taking the mick

I know we sold a player , where DC agreed a fee and then increased the ask twice more. The player asked to level training to go for his medical at which point jos and bully said go for a medical where. They hadn't even been told the player was to be sold. 

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On 02/08/2020 at 20:42, IanSWFC1867 said:

P&S is a 3 year rolling process and our 12 point deduction is due to ground sale not being allowed in year end July 2018, so lost over £35m that year + £20.7m and £9.7m in previous 2 years.

Allowance is £39m over rolling 3 years. There is no reset, it’s a rolling 3 years, so it’s now £20.7m, £35.4m and year end 2019 less the ground sale profit of £38m. 
Basically, if we’ve lost more than £20.8m to July 2019, we breach again and are liable for another points deduction. July 2019 accounts are due to be published anytime now ......

There is a partial reset when you go over, in the following evaluation period you are deemed to have lost £13m in each of previous two years plus next year (2018/1019)

 

So IF we don't (or lose) appeal it would be a loss of £26 m plus the 2019 result, then next year (given no charges I rules) would be £13m loss plus results to 2019 & 2020.

 

IF ground sale is allowed at the £60m price in 2019 figures then we would have lots of room to rebuild

Edited by wellbeaten-the-owl
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2 hours ago, wellbeaten-the-owl said:

There is a partial reset when you go over, in the following evaluation period you are deemed to have lost £13m in each of previous two years plus next year (2018/1019)

 

So IF we don't (or lose) appeal it would be a loss of £26 m plus the 2019 result, then next year (given no charges I rules) would be £13m loss plus results to 2019 & 2020.

 

IF ground sale is allowed at the £60m price in 2019 figures then we would have lots of room to rebuild

Have you got a link to where you have seen the £13m per year reset figure?

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