mogbad Posted August 1, 2020 Share Posted August 1, 2020 18 minutes ago, alanharper said: It goes on a rolling 3 year period, so we still need to keep below an average of £13m losses per year. The next accounts which are due out imminently will show a bigger loss than that. I don't know if the ground sale is permissible at all now or if last year's slight profit with it included still counts. The ground sale isn't against the EFL's rules but according to yesterdays judgement it should not have been included in the 2017/18 accounts. Therefore it should now be allowable in the 2018/19 accounts. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keepitsteel89 Posted August 1, 2020 Share Posted August 1, 2020 (edited) I mean we got at least 50k att every home game from what I recall Edited August 1, 2020 by keepitsteel89 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 1, 2020 Share Posted August 1, 2020 8 minutes ago, Steve Down South said: We’ll never be in a position to ‘splash the cash’ until we start generating funds from player sales. I suspect salaries will continue to exceed gate receipts for 19/20 and 20/21 accounts so wouldn’t expect we have much room for manoeuvre. When do salaries at football clubs not exceed gate receipts ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest LondonOwl313 Posted August 1, 2020 Share Posted August 1, 2020 7 minutes ago, alanharper said: I honestly don't know exactly how it works if a club already receives a punishment. For example, say if a club broke even every year apart from one when they have a £100m loss (an extreme example I know!). They get a 9-12 point deduction for breaching FFP. But that one bad year will put them over the 3 year rolling limit for 3 years in a row, so would they get a deduction for 3 years in a row or are they only punished for that first bad year when those accounts came out? Think its a one off punishment isn't it... because Birmingham's was one season where they spent way too much vs the other 2 in the rolling period and they've only been docked points once. The annoying thing is I can see the rules being reformed anyway as they aren't fit for purpose so we'll probably be one of the last teams punished Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
new zealand owl Posted August 1, 2020 Share Posted August 1, 2020 I thought the rolling 3 years would be 2016-17 big loss 2017-18 big loss 2018-19 small profit incorporating stadium sale. So they key is what does 17-18 now look like and likewise 18-19 now the stadium sale has moved? Bear in mind 19-20 accounts will be a lot healthier with the Joao sale and some big earners leaving at the end of last season I will leave it to the experts but in my view if we scrape through this years accounts under the threshold then we should be back to some normality next year even though 17-18s big losses will still stand for one more years assessments. Like I say that is my uneducated view and it could all change with EFL reform on P&S anyway 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plonk Posted August 1, 2020 Share Posted August 1, 2020 23 minutes ago, alanharper said: If it's permitted we're still likely to be breaking the £39M 3 year FFP threshold. 2018 -£20.8m 2019 + £2.5m 2020 probably at least -£25m The years above are the years of the released accounts, not the actual years that the accounts relate to. If the 18-19 includes the ground sale that means we lost £58million that year ?????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pazowl55 Posted August 1, 2020 Share Posted August 1, 2020 10 minutes ago, alanharper said: I honestly don't know exactly how it works if a club already receives a punishment. For example, say if a club broke even every year apart from one when they have a £100m loss (an extreme example I know!). They get a 9-12 point deduction for breaching FFP. But that one bad year will put them over the 3 year rolling limit for 3 years in a row, so would they get a deduction for 3 years in a row or are they only punished for that first bad year when those accounts came out? That's exactly the example I was about to post and I am sure the more you are over FFP the bigger the deduction isnt it. So what that team has a 15 point odd deduction 3 years in a row. I just dont see it being like that. Team getting punished for the same period 3 times. 15 minutes ago, billyblack said: how can it? Think about it. Thats just opens the door for another 3 years to go mental with spending again. 39 million over 3 years is not that mental on spending is it. About a year ago the financial expert guy on Twitter posted it got reset if you received a points deduction. I am sure he did. But can not locate the tweet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inspector Lestrade Posted August 1, 2020 Share Posted August 1, 2020 29 minutes ago, dykwim said: Let’s chuck £150m at it and see what happens. Put a quality side together and win the playoffs after overcoming the 12 point deduction and go up to the promised land leaving the EFLs stupid rules behind us. All we need is a couple more lucky elephants and we can pull this off. Scarily this might be the only answer 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plonk Posted August 1, 2020 Share Posted August 1, 2020 If the 18-19 includes the ground sale we should show a20-30 million profit. Even alllwing for heavy losses in 17-18 we should surely be heading into calmer waters particularly if next season is free from ffp due to covid? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mogbad Posted August 1, 2020 Share Posted August 1, 2020 There was a discussion on here when Birmingham received their points deduction. Some were saying they couldn't be punished twice for the same offence. In other words if they were punished for overspending in years 1, 2 & 3 you couldn't then punish them for an overspend in years 2, 3 & 4 because they've already been punished for years 2 & 3. I don't remember what the outcome of the discussion was but my own personal opinion is the 3 year rolling period doesn't restart & in theory we could be punished again when the 2018/19 accounts are published. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The only way is S6 Posted August 1, 2020 Share Posted August 1, 2020 1 hour ago, dykwim said: Can we buy the ground back for £1 and then sell it back to Chansiri for another £60m? Asking for a friend. Wouldn’t surprise me in the slightest if DC has a buyer for the ground. Son, wife, family member. Keep the money close to home. Probably do it legitimately next time though! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billyblack Posted August 1, 2020 Share Posted August 1, 2020 1 hour ago, pazowl55 said: That's exactly the example I was about to post and I am sure the more you are over FFP the bigger the deduction isnt it. So what that team has a 15 point odd deduction 3 years in a row. I just dont see it being like that. Team getting punished for the same period 3 times. 39 million over 3 years is not that mental on spending is it. About a year ago the financial expert guy on Twitter posted it got reset if you received a points deduction. I am sure he did. But can not locate the tweet. Its not spending, its £39 million loss. Big difference Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harrysgame Posted August 1, 2020 Share Posted August 1, 2020 1 hour ago, pazowl55 said: It does go on three year rolling, but are you sure that if we are punished for FFP over a 3 year period then it doesn't reset that 3 year rolling period as I am sure I read that it did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harrysgame Posted August 1, 2020 Share Posted August 1, 2020 Part of me thinks it is becoming like a closed shop for promotion unless you take the risk of splashing the cash or you have parachute payments. Okay there is the odd exception. Think might as well go for it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beswetherick Posted August 1, 2020 Share Posted August 1, 2020 FFP/P&S really is a load of bolIocks isn’t it? 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Costello 77 Posted August 1, 2020 Share Posted August 1, 2020 That horrible looking woman with her "mucky mansion" and the binman who won circa £11 million go to demonstrate that success in any endeavour isnt purely based on being liquid. There needs to be a foundational structure in place behind the scenes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 1, 2020 Share Posted August 1, 2020 1 hour ago, alanharper said: I honestly don't know exactly how it works if a club already receives a punishment. For example, say if a club broke even every year apart from one when they have a £100m loss (an extreme example I know!). They get a 9-12 point deduction for breaching FFP. But that one bad year will put them over the 3 year rolling limit for 3 years in a row, so would they get a deduction for 3 years in a row or are they only punished for that first bad year when those accounts came out? I suppose that's why the EFL have regular checks in place and have the indicative £13M per season as a guide to the overall 3-year sanctions. Clubs are advised to stick to £13M losses per year and if they significantly exceed that in 1 year then any continued punishment over the 3-year period is their own fault. It also seems as though the points punishments allow for mitigating circumstances and an evaluation of the overall picture so if as you say a club loses a significant amount in 1 season they will likely be punished heavily for the first breach but if following accounts show they are taking action to bring the losses back in line then they will still get a punishment for breaches in the next 2 years that this loss remains in the rolling period but it will be a smaller punishment. Newcastle lost over £40M in their one season in this division last time around but they had no intention of sticking around for that long and would have probably been able to sell players for big money had they not been promoted quickly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Costello 77 Posted August 1, 2020 Share Posted August 1, 2020 2 minutes ago, hirstyboywonder said: I suppose that's why the EFL have regular checks in place and have the indicative £13M per season as a guide to the overall 3-year sanctions. Clubs are advised to stick to £13M losses per year and if they significantly exceed that in 1 year then any continued punishment over the 3-year period is their own fault. It also seems as though the points punishments allow for mitigating circumstances and an evaluation of the overall picture so if as you say a club loses a significant amount in 1 season they will likely be punished heavily for the first breach but if following accounts show they are taking action to bring the losses back in line then they will still get a punishment for breaches in the next 2 years that this loss remains in the rolling period but it will be a smaller punishment. Newcastle lost over £40M in their one season in this division last time around but they had no intention of sticking around for that long and would have probably been able to sell players for big money had they not been promoted quickly. Good post.. you've hit (indirectly) at the root of our problem. Signing players on big wages with absolutely no future beyond picking up wages after the failed promotion push(s). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 1, 2020 Share Posted August 1, 2020 2 minutes ago, Costello 77 said: Good post.. you've hit (indirectly) at the root of our problem. Signing players on big wages with absolutely no future beyond picking up wages after the failed promotion push(s). That's always been my issue. We signed players on long contracts with a push for promotion. It was indicated that the plan was to be promoted in two years. Once that plan failed the players with value - and there were still a fair few at that time -should have been sold to balance the books a bit, take a season to rebuild then give it another go. That's what I expected the strategy to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theowlsman Posted August 1, 2020 Share Posted August 1, 2020 (edited) To read at leisure.... https://www.mikethornton.xyz/new-ffp-tests/ And you’re all welcome Edited August 1, 2020 by theowlsman 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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