NeonLeon Posted July 31, 2020 Share Posted July 31, 2020 (edited) 3 minutes ago, TheEnchanter said: The wording from the statement says 'found guilty based on the fact the club should not have included profits from the sale of Hillsborough stadium'. Which explains a bigger deduction in comparison to Brum last year. Also if people read the link I’ve posted on the last page you’ll see Birmingham were only deducted 7 points for breaking FFP. Theres no point people comparing us to Birmingham when our breach is off the scale by comparison. . Edited July 31, 2020 by NeonLeon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teddybeararmy Posted July 31, 2020 Share Posted July 31, 2020 10 minutes ago, shez owl said: Exactly Yes we have been punished for the same offence, however we exceeded the 39m by a greater amount than Birmingham ,they got -7 for their breach. Ours was the maximum allowable in the rules. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triple O Posted July 31, 2020 Share Posted July 31, 2020 1 minute ago, TheEnchanter said: The wording from the statement says 'found guilty based on the fact the club should not have included profits from the sale of Hillsborough stadium'. Which explains a bigger deduction in comparison to Brum last year. It is what I am saying we were found guilty of breaching P & S due to the profits not being allowed. Nothing else as it goes on to say. (in the not guilty part) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4evaowl Posted July 31, 2020 Share Posted July 31, 2020 The way I read this is that, as DC and others have been personally cleared, and there is no bad faith, the “wrong” that the club has done is including the ground sale in the incorrect year. By removing that wrong, the club has exceeded the P&S rules on losses, so incur a points deduction. The only thing that isn’t clear is why the deduction hasn’t been imposed in the 2019/20 season when the case was brought (and which hasn’t ended yet). It can only be that the timing and affect of the sanction must have been considered in the final judgement, hence why it has been imposed in 20/21. 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triple O Posted July 31, 2020 Share Posted July 31, 2020 1 minute ago, 4evaowl said: The way I read this is that, as DC and others have been personally cleared, and there is no bad faith, the “wrong” that the club has done is including the ground sale in the incorrect year. By removing that wrong, the club has exceeded the P&S rules on losses, so incur a points deduction. The only thing that isn’t clear is why the deduction hasn’t been imposed in the 2019/20 season when the case was brought (and which hasn’t ended yet). It can only be that the timing and affect of the sanction must have been considered in the final judgement, hence why it has been imposed in 20/21. Perfect assessment. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shez owl Posted July 31, 2020 Share Posted July 31, 2020 3 minutes ago, teddybeararmy said: Yes we have been punished for the same offence, however we exceeded the 39m by a greater amount than Birmingham ,they got -7 for their breach. Ours was the maximum allowable in the rules. Fair enough but with inflation that £39m figure is not sustainable, will it still be £39m in 5 years time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheEnchanter Posted July 31, 2020 Share Posted July 31, 2020 1 minute ago, Triple O said: It is what I am saying we were found guilty of breaching P & S due to the profits not being allowed. Nothing else as it goes on to say. (in the not guilty part) I am honestly interpreting it very differently. Shows how confusing the whole scenario is. It feels to me like the fact we tried to conceal it with the stadoum sale has resulted in a heavier punishment. This is something that the independent panel has taken into conaideration. However at the same time they acknowledged that this isn't an illegal move and was an allowed loophole at the time. (Obviously wording to that effect isn't in the statement). But it does feel to me that the fact we even tried to do that has drawn attention to us trying to hide the inevitable FFP issues rather than confront it. I'm not trying to come across as argumentative, its how I genuinely read that statement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slow83 Posted July 31, 2020 Share Posted July 31, 2020 Its already cost us a season of fighting it, time to move on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triple O Posted July 31, 2020 Share Posted July 31, 2020 Just now, TheEnchanter said: I am honestly interpreting it very differently. Shows how confusing the whole scenario is. It feels to me like the fact we tried to conceal it with the stadoum sale has resulted in a heavier punishment. This is something that the independent panel has taken into conaideration. However at the same time they acknowledged that this isn't an illegal move and was an allowed loophole at the time. (Obviously wording to that effect isn't in the statement). But it does feel to me that the fact we even tried to do that has drawn attention to us trying to hide the inevitable FFP issues rather than confront it. I'm not trying to come across as argumentative, its how I genuinely read that statement. With you on that! Confusion rules the day with the EFL. I'm not happy that we tried to use a loophole or that DC got us to such a stage that he needed to do it but having said that the club and lawyers seemed to think it had been sanctioned. It took the EFL so long to bring the charges, what were they doing in that time? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shez owl Posted July 31, 2020 Share Posted July 31, 2020 (edited) 9 minutes ago, TheEnchanter said: I am honestly interpreting it very differently. Shows how confusing the whole scenario is. It feels to me like the fact we tried to conceal it with the stadoum sale has resulted in a heavier punishment. This is something that the independent panel has taken into conaideration. However at the same time they acknowledged that this isn't an illegal move and was an allowed loophole at the time. (Obviously wording to that effect isn't in the statement). But it does feel to me that the fact we even tried to do that has drawn attention to us trying to hide the inevitable FFP issues rather than confront it. I'm not trying to come across as argumentative, its how I genuinely read that statement. That’s fair enough, the key point is the bit that’s says we’ve failed 3 year p&s so deducted points. The sub plot here in this statement is that on face the panel has disallowed it from the accounts but the auditors and hmrc didn’t Edited July 31, 2020 by shez owl 5 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wakefield owl Posted July 31, 2020 Share Posted July 31, 2020 What I’m struggling with is that the verdict appears fairly straight forward ie the sale of the ground was included in the wrong year. If this is the case then why has it taken the commission three weeks to come to this conclusion and why did it take seven months to hear the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maldino2004 Posted July 31, 2020 Share Posted July 31, 2020 Now that the sale of the ground has been declared null and void for the 17/18 season, will the sale be allowed to be carried forward to the following season therefore contributing to our current 3 year rolling accounts? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shez owl Posted July 31, 2020 Share Posted July 31, 2020 3 minutes ago, maldino2004 said: Now that the sale of the ground has been declared null and void for the 17/18 season, will the sale be allowed to be carried forward to the following season therefore contributing to our current 3 year rolling accounts? That’s the question! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WaikanaeOwl Posted July 31, 2020 Share Posted July 31, 2020 Appeal will fail. Reading general independent opinion on social media there is a lot of anger over not deciding to apply the points deduction this season thereby relegating us. So take next seasons punishment and survive is the aim. We have been fortunate in my opinion. We have been banged to rights despite what the Club argue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sherlyegg Posted July 31, 2020 Share Posted July 31, 2020 23 minutes ago, shez owl said: That’s fair enough, the key point is the bit that’s says we’ve failed 3 year p&s so deducted points. What i don't get is why has it taken months, when surely it was clear as mud. The ground sale was a none goer....according to the efl... Will we evere see their reasoning? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shez owl Posted July 31, 2020 Share Posted July 31, 2020 5 minutes ago, sherlyegg said: What i don't get is why has it taken months, when surely it was clear as mud. The ground sale was a none goer....according to the efl... Will we evere see their reasoning? I very much doubt it, but the Charlton legal action may force it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sherlyegg Posted July 31, 2020 Share Posted July 31, 2020 9 minutes ago, WaikanaeOwl said: Appeal will fail. Reading general independent opinion on social media there is a lot of anger over not deciding to apply the points deduction this season thereby relegating us. So take next seasons punishment and survive is the aim. We have been fortunate in my opinion. We have been banged to rights despite what the Club argue. Why has it taken em so long then?...why points off next season? Nah, not bang to rights. Reckon they couldn't agree and spun a coin... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gurujuan Posted July 31, 2020 Share Posted July 31, 2020 1 hour ago, 4evaowl said: I was caned (Rightly) by the Headmaster at school. He said take the punishment and learn from it. He was right. I got caned, wrongly and protested my innocence, but my headmaster said, well that’s for all the times you should have received it, but didn’t The only thing I learned was, next time, don’t get caught Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcx666 Posted July 31, 2020 Share Posted July 31, 2020 Birmingham got 9 points for the same offence, so why have we got 12. Worth an appeal on that basis alone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WalthamOwl Posted July 31, 2020 Share Posted July 31, 2020 1 minute ago, marcx666 said: Birmingham got 9 points for the same offence, so why have we got 12. Worth an appeal on that basis alone. Isn’t ours for messing up with FFP but also for putting the ground sale in the wrong year? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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