GARRY MONK vs NEW MANAGER THREAD

[Guest]

Just now, areNOTwhatTHEYseem said:

 

Those who chose not to play for us during the final stretch of the season, particularly Forestieri, who apparently wasn't even working hard in training according to his own teammate.

 

You can probably include Westwood, who seemingly gets 'injured' within a few games of being asked to sit on the bench.

 

Westwood hasn't been in the squad or the dressing room this year, Forestieri ddin't refuse to play, he was not offered a new deal, again hardly in the squad in 2020 so not sure what basis that has for the inexcusable results and performances this year. 

Plenty of clubs lost players after lock down, few did as poorly as us.

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, Roy Of The Roasters said:

 

Well, he managed it at Birmingham.

 

He did an OK job at Birmingham - they chose to get rid of him so can't have been that good. OK they didn't improve without him but didn't get much worse either despite appointing someone who openly confessed he isn't really a manager! 

[davetherivelinowl]

18 hours ago, Rogers said:

The following would come to our club

 

Warnock - just cos. Challenge, up against it, adversity. He loves all that 

 

Laws - he’d take it

 

Carlton - cos he’s mental and passionate 

 

And a few others 

Terry Curran, Benito Carbone, the list goes on

 

[@owlstalk]

12 minutes ago, hirstyboywonder said:

 

He did an OK job at Birmingham - they chose to get rid of him so can't have been that good.

We got rid of Carlos

And Big Ron

 

 

[shandypants]

29 minutes ago, hirstyboywonder said:

 

How many times do you see a manager come in and have an instant impact, Middlesbrough may have been relegated had they not done so.

 

In the main I agree more long-term planning is better than short termism but only if you have the right person to plan with. Would you have given Luhukay longer?

That instant impact doesn’t last very often though does it?

 

Although at the time, I wanted Luhukay to go, I may have felt completely different back then if I knew then what I know now because someone needs to sort out the mess we are in. 
 

If we sack Monk, someone will have to come in and do exactly the same stuff and will be equally as unpopular. 
 

Let’s stop chopping and changing managers - the last 20 years shows us it doesn’t work. 

[Guest]

1 minute ago, @owlstalk said:

We got rid of Carlos

And Big Ron

 

 

 

They had relative periods of success. We got rid of Carlos on the back of poor results, we got rid of Ron on the whim of the board.

 

Monk led Birmingham to mid-table and got rid of him at that point. Why?

 

Not many managers go on to have success after starting well then leading the same squad to such poor results and performances for such a sustained period. 

Especially those with managerial careers with little or no success. 

[davetherivelinowl]

There are lots of reasons why we shouldn't be blaming Monk:

 

Club in a financial straightjacket, troubled dressing room, no pre-season, no chance of bringing his own coaching team, unfit, ageing squad etc etc 

 

BUT

 

the least we should hope for from a manager is someone with enough nous to make us hard to beat. Let's face it, for all our pretty football at times especially since the lock down, he's set us up to be easy to beat. THAT's why I want someone else.

[Guest]

Just now, shandypants said:

That instant impact doesn’t last very often though does it?

 

Although at the time, I wanted Luhukay to go, I may have felt completely different back then if I knew then what I know now because someone needs to sort out the mess we are in. 
 

If we sack Monk, someone will have to come in and do exactly the same stuff and will be equally as unpopular. 
 

Let’s stop chopping and changing managers - the last 20 years shows us it doesn’t work. 

 

We chopped Megson and got the instant success we needed, might not have got promoted otherwise, certainly the same case with Turner.

 

Jos Luhukay was a poor choice as manager and would have not got any further with anymore time, he came out of retirement for ur job, shouldn't have bothered, his latest job shows suggests he is past his best.

Nothing I have seen indicates Monk is any better.

[RevOwl]

Imagine being the supporter of a club with a manager that has at his disposal players like Sam Hutchinson, Keiron Westwood, Fernando Forestieri, etc but they can't get in the side. How good a starting 11 must he have if they can't get in or even on the bench. Imagine if that same manager rated players like Da Cruz as a striker who was always in the side. A manager that rated Wildsmith as his number one followed closely by Dawson. Yes Dawson you read right. A manager that genuinely believes both those keepers are better than Westwood. I wonder which of those three would make it in to any other championship team. Imagine having a manager that rates not only Da Cruz up front who's never hit the back of the net in a Wednesday shirt but Pelupessy to feed him the ammunition. How about a manager who rates a player like Moses Odubajo to stop opposition strikers from scoring and to not make stupid mistakes at the back like giving away unnecessary penalties etc. Now if you was to ask anyone that's got even the slightest bit of nouce about this no matter who they support they would obviously not want such a manager because clearly the outcome isn't going to be good is it. You don't need coaching badges to know this it's just common sense. Let's just hope no such manager ever gets his hands on our beloved Wednesday who are about to start the next season on minus 12 points. We'd be down by January. 

[shandypants]

17 minutes ago, hirstyboywonder said:

 

We chopped Megson and got the instant success we needed, might not have got promoted otherwise, certainly the same case with Turner.

 

Jos Luhukay was a poor choice as manager and would have not got any further with anymore time, he came out of retirement for ur job, shouldn't have bothered, his latest job shows suggests he is past his best.

Nothing I have seen indicates Monk is any better.

I agree about Luhukay but disagree about Monk. 

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, shandypants said:

I agree about Luhukay but disagree about Monk. 

 

On what basis though? 

Gone backwards with the same squad with us and everything he has tried has failed. Can't think of anything he has done that has looked like having a prolonged positive impact.  

[@owlstalk]

1 minute ago, hirstyboywonder said:

Gone backwards with the same squad with us 

Carlos did that
So did Gary Megson
Big Ron got us RELEGATED
So did... etc etc etc 

[Costello 77]

This.. more than ever..is the time to employ a specialist.

Give Col 800 hundred tractors and a massive paypacket.

 

Every body who despises him needs to swallow their bile . Give him a year or so and your away days will be at the stadiums of elite clubs.

 

 

[Guest]

1 minute ago, @owlstalk said:

Carlos did that
So did Gary Megson
Big Ron got us RELEGATED
So did... etc etc etc 

 

Big Ron got us relegated but with a better record than Monk has had in the past 7 months and he had a pedigree of success to lead us to beleive he would turn things around.

 

Megson got sacked and the next manager improved results and got us promoted. Carlos got sacked, don't think you had an issue with that one.

 

Do your win-up posts correlate with how much beer you have had or how much time you have spent in the sun?

[areNOTwhatTHEYseem]

41 minutes ago, hirstyboywonder said:

Westwood hasn't been in the squad or the dressing room this year, Forestieri ddin't refuse to play, he was not offered a new deal, again hardly in the squad in 2020 so not sure what basis that has for the inexcusable results and performances this year. 

Plenty of clubs lost players after lock down, few did as poorly as us.

 

It was widely reported that Forestieri turned down a contract extension, but that's by the by.

 

Either way, you seem to be drifting away from what we were discussing for some reason: the state of our squad.

 

As I was saying, we have a complete Frankenstein's monster of a squad, with no coherence to it. There's not a single formation or style of play that suits all of our players, and each attempt to address one of our inherent weaknesses simply exposes another one.

 

We actually managed surprisingly well while we had a fully-fit Fletcher up top, but as soon as he was injured and Monk had to try to fashion a strikeforce out of Winnall, Nuhiu and Rhodes, the writing was on the wall.

 

Failing to replace Hooper, João and Matias with a single new striker last summer was criminal, really. But then we didn't employ a manager until the transfer window closed!

 

Take that one example and spread it across a squad that doesn't know if it was built to play long ball, possession football, high-tempo closing down, flying wingers, a solid back four, wingbacks, a target man etc... and it's hard to imagine why any Wednesday honestly thought we'd finish too far above where we ended up last season.

[trevdi9]

10 hours ago, areNOTwhatTHEYseem said:

 

Right. Birmingham sacked him after he initially saved them from relegation and then overcome their nine-point deduction to guide them to mid-table safety in his first full season.

 

This season, they picked up 11 fewer points and only just escaped the drop with no points deduction.

 

There's obviously some bad blood regarding the circumstances of Monk's departure and Clotet taking his job, but I'm not sure that's any reflection on Monk. From what he's said, I don't think he'd work with Clotet again, either.

 

I'm not sure what your point is?

 that's one of his sackings covered  team wise now ask yourself why the owner was peed off , now what about the others , or why three  of them were seeking legal charges ( All  freely available on google) or why he was sacked at Swansea for bad man management ,,  but no matter after the drop since Christmas I can't see it getting any better , but there you go ,

[@owlstalk]

15 minutes ago, hirstyboywonder said:

Big Ron got us relegated  

Megson got sacked

Carlos got sacked 

Yep

 

 

[Guest]

10 minutes ago, areNOTwhatTHEYseem said:

 

It was widely reported that Forestieri turned down a contract extension, but that's by the by.

 

Either way, you seem to be drifting away from what we were discussing for some reason: the state of our squad.

 

As I was saying, we have a complete Frankenstein's monster of a squad, with no coherence to it. There's not a single formation or style of play that suits all of our players, and each attempt to address one of our inherent weaknesses simply exposes another one.

 

We actually managed surprisingly well while we had a fully-fit Fletcher up top, but as soon as he was injured and Monk had to try to fashion a strikeforce out of Winnall, Nuhiu and Rhodes, the writing was on the wall.

 

Failing to replace Hooper, João and Matias with a single new striker last summer was criminal, really. But then we didn't employ a manager until the transfer window closed!

 

Take that one example and spread it across a squad that doesn't know if it was built to play long ball, possession football, high-tempo closing down, flying wingers, a solid back four, wingbacks, a target man etc... and it's hard to imagine why any Wednesday honestly thought we'd finish too far above where we ended up last season.

 

We are discussing the manager, that's what the thread is about so I am not moving away from anything. The state of our squad this past season was not great but it wasn't the 23rd best in the division - that is what Monk turned it into results and performance wise. If it all fell apart due to the loss of one striker that is his responsibility. He went out in January and replaced him with a striker who still wasn't fit after a 3-month lock down!

 

The manager had no clue what was the best way to play and couldn't even set us up to be compact or hard to beat when faced with not knowing the best way to utilise his squad. 

No faith in him at all based on what I have witnessed.

[areNOTwhatTHEYseem]

28 minutes ago, RevOwl said:

Imagine being the supporter of a club with a manager that has at his disposal players like Sam Hutchinson, Keiron Westwood, Fernando Forestieri, etc but they can't get in the side. How good a starting 11 must he have if they can't get in or even on the bench. Imagine if that same manager rated players like Da Cruz as a striker who was always in the side. A manager that rated Wildsmith as his number one followed closely by Dawson. Yes Dawson you read right. A manager that genuinely believes both those keepers are better than Westwood. I wonder which of those three would make it in to any other championship team. Imagine having a manager that rates not only Da Cruz up front who's never hit the back of the net in a Wednesday shirt but Pelupessy to feed him the ammunition. How about a manager who rates a player like Moses Odubajo to stop opposition strikers from scoring and to not make stupid mistakes at the back like giving away unnecessary penalties etc. Now if you was to ask anyone that's got even the slightest bit of nouce about this no matter who they support they would obviously not want such a manager because clearly the outcome isn't going to be good is it. You don't need coaching badges to know this it's just common sense. Let's just hope no such manager ever gets his hands on our beloved Wednesday who are about to start the next season on minus 12 points. We'd be down by January. 

 

Imagine genuinely believing that any manager wouldn't want players as useful as Westwood, Forestieri and Hutchinson in the squad if these players were allying their undoubted talent with the right attitude and application. 

 

No manager would leave out such a player if all of the above were in place, would they?

 

Imagine criticising a manager for selecting Odubajo when there are simply no alternatives, thanks to the ridiculously threadbare squad he inherited - when the games started coming thick and fast and fatigue set in, I'm sure Monk would much rather have had greater depth to fall back on, but Bruce signed Odubajo, so that's who he can select.

 

Imagine thinking that Monk genuinely rates Pelupessy as anything more than a squad player, having played him for a grand total of 917 minutes all season (just shy of 25% of the time he could have played him).

 

Imagine thinking all the above and having the temerity to claim your inane drivel amounts to 'common sense'.

 

You couldn't make it up.

 

[sexpistol]

1 hour ago, davetherivelinowl said:

Terry Curran, Benito Carbone, the list goes on

 

I would take Warnock in a heartbeat.