Vardy

[Emilianenko]

1 minute ago, 0wl18 said:

Ahh right... David Hirst was the best in the country but, was continuously overlooked by England? When England did take a look, he’d have been loads better than Shearer but got injured? 

He wasn’t continually overlooked Him and Shearer debuted together against France. Hirst was regularly picked for the squad but usually picked up an injury.

[dewsburyowl58]

4 hours ago, 0wl18 said:

No, we’re not. We’re talking about a quotation from a footballing great, which many are hanging onto the coat tails of to justify David Hirst being an all time great.

 

David Hirst was 25 when he got injured against Arsenal. What was stopping him being the England Legend so many claim he would have been pre 25? 
 

 

 

 

 

I base my opinion on what I’ve seen. For me Hirsty is quite easily the best striker I’ve seen in a Wednesday shirt . This doesn’t put him as an all time great but he had the ability to be one . 

[dewsburyowl58]

45 minutes ago, 0wl18 said:

Ahh right... David Hirst was the best in the country but, was continuously overlooked by England? When England did take a look, he’d have been loads better than Shearer but got injured? 

So you are saying Hirsty was overrated or his supporters are exaggerating ?  I’m at a loss as to why anyone would question his stature in the game at his peak . What exactly is your point , do you not think he was that good ? 

[Guest LondonOwl313]

2 minutes ago, dewsburyowl58 said:

So you are saying Hirsty was overrated or his supporters are exaggerating ?  I’m at a loss as to why anyone would question his stature in the game at his peak . What exactly is your point , do you not think he was that good ? 

He was good, and I think most would agree when you say he's the best striker you've seen in a Wednesday shirt

 

It's the comparison to other teams strikers that doesn't make sense. As a current example, Danny Ings is on fire at Southampton, and I bet their fans are raving about him. But he's not as good as Harry Kane.. everyone outside of Southampton would say that but I'm sure a biased few Saints fans would back Ings.

 

Its the same with Hirst, great player, our best striker, but not right at the top level. Maybe if he'd gone to Man Utd he'd have pushed on and become that but he didn't so we can only judge on what happened

[FinnishOwl]

It's impossible to really compare two players of very different eras. The game has changed so much that it's almost like comparing apples to oranges.

 

I never saw Hirst play because he was always out when Wednesday was on the TV here, but I can easily believe how good he was in his prime. I'm really not sure if a move to ManU would have done him any good. The boozing and stuff is inside you and it's very likely that you cannot shake it even if Sir Alex had man managed him. Vardy is a big exception to that rule, though I don't have any detailed information how he started using his potential instead of wasting it.

[pat blondeau]

14 hours ago, unkastav said:

In my view the top league, bar the top two, is the poorest standard for a long time

How did all four finalists last season in the champions league and Europa league come from England then?

 

In the early/mid 90s (when Hirst was playing) the English sides were generally getting knocked out of the European competitions in the early rounds 

[DSandersonOWL]

We all know that Vardy is 'too small' to be any good, rejected at 16. No comparison with David Hirst

Maybe in a few years we will be having streams on 'son of Vardy'.  

[markg]

1 hour ago, dewsburyowl58 said:

So you are saying Hirsty was overrated or his supporters are exaggerating ?  I’m at a loss as to why anyone would question his stature in the game at his peak . What exactly is your point , do you not think he was that good ? 

I saw him a lot and he was excellent and there is an argument to be had between him and Vardy, it's comparing him or saying he was better than Shearer that I can't begin to comprehend. 

 

 

[pazowl55]

22 minutes ago, pat blondeau said:

How did all four finalists last season in the champions league and Europa league come from England then?

 

In the early/mid 90s (when Hirst was playing) the English sides were generally getting knocked out of the European competitions in the early rounds 

Early/mid 90s we were one of the best teams in the country. Says it all really dont it.

[dewsburyowl58]

5 minutes ago, markg said:

I saw him a lot and he was excellent and there is an argument to be had between him and Vardy, it's comparing him or saying he was better than Shearer that I can't begin to comprehend. 

 

 

Shearer had  a fantastic career there’s no doubt about that and there’s no argument there  but I honestly believe , not through my loyalty to Wednesday and Hirsty that In David  Hirst we had a striker as good as any other , he had the lot and the injuries he suffered did hold him back from matching shearers and any other top strikers stats . 

[pat blondeau]

8 minutes ago, pazowl55 said:

Early/mid 90s we were one of the best teams in the country. Says it all really dont it.

Exactly, I don’t think the 3rd best side in the country would lose to a team like Kaiserslautern now. And the Italian clubs were a long way ahead of the English clubs at that time.

 

I re-watched the 1992/93 end of season review during lockdown. English football was better to watch then than it is now but it wasn’t a better standard. It was a lot more direct and physical with barely any foreign players in the league

[DJMortimer]

1 hour ago, pat blondeau said:

Exactly, I don’t think the 3rd best side in the country would lose to a team like Kaiserslautern now.

 

Since May 2013, Manchester City have lost to Wigan Athletic in 3 of their 4 meetings, including a cup final.

 

[markg]

1 hour ago, dewsburyowl58 said:

Shearer had  a fantastic career there’s no doubt about that and there’s no argument there  but I honestly believe , not through my loyalty to Wednesday and Hirsty that In David  Hirst we had a striker as good as any other , he had the lot and the injuries he suffered did hold him back from matching shearers and any other top strikers stats . 

He had some bad injuries but Shearer had potentially 3 career threatening ones too. 

[pat blondeau]

6 minutes ago, DJMortimer said:

 

Since May 2013, Manchester City have lost to Wigan Athletic in 3 of their 4 meetings, including a cup final.

 

Strange comparison, even though it was a big shock Wigan were a top flight team in 2013. 
 

Kaiserslautern beating us wasn’t a shock result. In 91/92, 92/93 and 93/94 the English champions were knocked out of the champions league before even reaching the group stages.
 

Can you imagine the English champions now being knocked out over two legs by Rangers or Galatasaray?
 

The Scottish league winners were a better side than the English league winners in 92/93

[DJMortimer]

5 minutes ago, pat blondeau said:

Strange comparison, even though it was a big shock Wigan were a top flight team in 2013. 

 

Not really - it's just the nature of knockout football. 

[DobbinTheDonkey]

12 minutes ago, markg said:

He had some bad injuries but Shearer had potentially 3 career threatening ones too. 

 

And changed the way he played to suit. 

An outstanding attitude to football.

Did Hirst have better all round playing ability than Vardy, probably yes.

But for the full package, Vardy wins hands down. 

People appear to underestimate the mental side of the game.

Hirsty ended up failing miserably at it on just professionalism alone.

[markg]

23 minutes ago, DobbinTheDonkey said:

 

And changed the way he played to suit. 

An outstanding attitude to football.

Did Hirst have better all round playing ability than Vardy, probably yes.

But for the full package, Vardy wins hands down. 

People appear to underestimate the mental side of the game.

Hirsty ended up failing miserably at it on just professionalism alone.

Totally agree.

People dismiss the mental aspect of it as if that doesn't count to the whole make up of the player. They say yeah but take Shearer's mental strength away then Hirst was better.

 

For me Shearer was as good as hirst at every aspect and had the added mental attributes too. 

[unkastav]

3 hours ago, pat blondeau said:

How did all four finalists last season in the champions league and Europa league come from England then?

 

In the early/mid 90s (when Hirst was playing) the English sides were generally getting knocked out of the European competitions in the early rounds 

In my view, most the leagues are poorer. Champions league football has created the elite. Just look at how many leagues are won by the chosen few now

[Bleeder]

19 hours ago, Nut said:

Hirst would've also benefitted from the modern rules where you're not allowed to tackle. Kicking him out of the game was the only way you could stop him. He would have been unbelievable in the modern era where the likes of Steve Bould wouldn't be able to get away with breaking his ankle and only getting a booking. Obviously, he would have to lose some of his aggression as well. 

 

Watching Hirsty winding himself up to make a tackle 30 yards away from the bloke about to be on the receiving end and the subsequent charge was a fabulous sight.... made Sam Hutchinson's efforts look like child play at times.

[Rogerwyldesmullet]

Comparisons are invidious but because of his age and ability to score all types of goals - dribbles thunderbolts headers and tap ins, Hirst was Manchester United’s #1 target for whom (Sir) Alex Ferguson was prepared to pay an English club record fee.

 

Jamie Vardy is a one footed one trick pony but speed is a bloody good trick to have. Problem is that most of the top teams face massed ranks of defence with no space behind. Arsenal showed a bit of interest at one stage but top teams know they would have to base their attacking style around him and they ain’t gonna do that whereas Leicester are. 

 

Vardy has had the better career but Hirst was the better footballer.